[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
For me, the “main punches” use at least a dozen principles, some of which go against each other and I’m not even speaking about tactical implementation.
Even champions don’t use all or even break some principles; bottom line - like a modern rifle, you have to carefully assemble your weapons, piece by piece.[/quote]
Care to elaborate? Curious what you mean here.
I just also want to add that your stance is probably the most important factor in fighting. You may think you punch hard or kick hard or whatnot, but the optimization of movement, striking, and defense comes from a proper stance. This is even referenced in old school martial arts as being “springy” and snakelike, though without the scientific justification that there is now.
For boxing fans, I highly recommend an up and coming prospect named David Lemieux, coached by Russ Anbar. Russ has instructional videos that star david as a younger kid and they are by far the best resources on boxing I have seen. Most are on youtube. It is interesting to note, the way Russ coaches the stance is exactly how I have been coached for taekwondo.
You want 60/40 with more weight on the front leg and your legs should be bent and having your feet face 45 degrees away from you. Once again, if you would believe that you can hit much harder and faster with some minor tweaks to your stance and movement…I know i found that out and I have trained for 10 years.
I understood the rest of your post, but this left me a bit puzzled…i thought the fall step resulted in a punch that headed downward, somewhat like an overhand cross
[quote]VA3808 wrote:
As far as the “falling” step on the jab, think of foot motion somewhere between a push press and a push jerk; that’s how I understand it anyway. Another reason why I like this jab is that it changes the vertical angle to one that is moving upward, which jacks with some people.[/quote]
I’m confused as well. When you get your power for the punch from a “push press motion”, it’s not actually a falling step but a “rising step”, where your center of gravity moves upward, right? This would also result in changing the angle of the punch to one that is moving upward. Correct me if I misunderstood your post. Where you actually referring to the falling step described in Dempsey’s book?
I think this is what Schwarzfahrer talked about in his post, there are so many ways to generate power in a punch that it’s impossible to all use them at once, and some principles contradict each other.
[quote]666Rich wrote:
I just also want to add that your stance is probably the most important factor in fighting. You may think you punch hard or kick hard or whatnot, but the optimization of movement, striking, and defense comes from a proper stance. This is even referenced in old school martial arts as being “springy” and snakelike, though without the scientific justification that there is now.
[/quote]
Well, actually I’d say that the mental skills like being able to function under high amounts of stress, being adaptive (able to change your game plan mid stream if needed), and being willing to fight through discomfort and pain, etc… are the most important factors in fighting (even sport fighting).
But I’m not gonna argue that a good fighting position (don’t like stance cause it implies a static position) is very important.
[quote]
For boxing fans, I highly recommend an up and coming prospect named David Lemieux, coached by Russ Anbar. Russ has instructional videos that star david as a younger kid and they are by far the best resources on boxing I have seen. Most are on youtube. It is interesting to note, the way Russ coaches the stance is exactly how I have been coached for taekwondo.
You want 60/40 with more weight on the front leg and your legs should be bent and having your feet face 45 degrees away from you. Once again, if you would believe that you can hit much harder and faster with some minor tweaks to your stance and movement…I know i found that out and I have trained for 10 years.[/quote]
Having more weight on the front foot and having a really wide base like Russ advocates is ok for pure boxing, but god help your front leg if you ever spar with a good leg kicker cause they are going to kick the crap out of it. In fact if you look at the traditional Muay Thai stance they actually have more weight on the rear leg so they can check kicks with the front leg.
I’m not saying that the Muay Thai stance is better, but I think you can find sort of a happy medium by keeping a 50/50 stance and narrowing your feet a little (so you can more quickly shift your weight from foot to foot to facilitate checking). You can still generate plenty of force from such a position as well, especially if you utilize your force sources.
[quote]Enjoy The Pain wrote:
I’m confused as well[/quote]
I’m thinking of the the center of gravity getting lower as you step forward and then connecting with your jab as your lead foot hits the deck hard as it would in a jerk. When I throw this, my center of gravity does not rise until I pull my lead foot back and resume my stance. If there is another name for this jab, please tell me so I’ll quit calling the wrong thing.
Honestly, since my striking background is Dutch-style Muay Thai, I’m no authority on plain western boxing. And while I consider myself to be a technical striker, there are several nuances in plain boxing that I cannot see.
[quote]VA3808 wrote:
[quote]Enjoy The Pain wrote:
I’m confused as well[/quote]
I’m thinking of the the center of gravity getting lower as you step forward and then connecting with your jab as your lead foot hits the deck hard as it would in a jerk. When I throw this, my center of gravity does not rise until I pull my lead foot back and resume my stance. If there is another name for this jab, please tell me so I’ll quit calling the wrong thing.
Honestly, since my striking background is Dutch-style Muay Thai, I’m no authority on plain western boxing. And while I consider myself to be a technical striker, there are several nuances in plain boxing that I cannot see.
[/quote]
Thanks for clarifying that, the push press analogy just confused me. I can see how it relates to the jerk, though. Actually the way you’re describing it, I picture it similar to Dempsey’s lead jolt, not just stepping forward but rapidly letting your center of gravity fall downward, which would also result in an punch that is angled slightly upwards.
I’m no authority on western boxing either, this is just a topic that interests me so I’m curious to read everyone’s opinions.
[quote]VA3808 wrote:
[quote]Enjoy The Pain wrote:
I’m confused as well[/quote]
I’m thinking of the the center of gravity getting lower as you step forward and then connecting with your jab as your lead foot hits the deck hard as it would in a jerk. When I throw this, my center of gravity does not rise until I pull my lead foot back and resume my stance. If there is another name for this jab, please tell me so I’ll quit calling the wrong thing.
Honestly, since my striking background is Dutch-style Muay Thai, I’m no authority on plain western boxing. And while I consider myself to be a technical striker, there are several nuances in plain boxing that I cannot see.
[/quote]
It’s just called “stepping in with the jab”.
I agree with golden Gloves sounds like youve identified and sorted it out. Just keep doing what your doing and analyze what is working.
Your problem maybe because you are telegraphing what you intend to throw, and thats why ya opponent is bouncing out. That usually happens when you are focused on throwing power, you tend to tense up and your easy to read. If you are tense you are too rigid or you are loading up and they can see it. Do some mirror work and see if you have any tells that will help your opponent read what you gonna throw, like lil twitches, boucing the hand you are going to throw, facial changes you know little bad habits. If you do have these little give aways, just adjust and work on it. Especially when doing pad work, make sure your pad holder pulls you up on it until you are throwing spontaniously with out lil telegraphs.
If you do have tells and you have adjusted it, then apply it practically in your sparring and just focus on that. If that is your problem then you will see that they will not be boucing out as much.
Muay Thai
I like using my cross planted and on the balls of my feet. Depends on the position I am in or what foot position my opponents feet are in. I like launching it straight off the rear leg if I know that my opponents gaurd is wide open, I like punching the thigh after have kicking it numerous times knowing it has been corked up. I will throw hard just to get my Ops guard up to move to another advantage position.
Boxing
This is whole nother story as the stances are different, but I still like to throw off both balls of the foot and planted depending on, how close I am to target or my ops foot position ,Man this is a vast topic I could go on and on. I am sure we all could.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
For me, the “main punches” use at least a dozen principles, some of which go against each other and I’m not even speaking about tactical implementation.
Even champions don’t use all or even break some principles; bottom line - like a modern rifle, you have to carefully assemble your weapons, piece by piece.[/quote]
Care to elaborate? Curious what you mean here.[/quote]
Shoot. What do you want to know?