Storing Weight in Lower Body

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]powell3120 wrote:

That doesn’t add up, my friend.
[/quote]

I actually have an idea… He puts 110kg in weights on the machine but due to the lever mechanics etc this isn’t what he is actually pulling, more like 80 or so. Still, two years of training without being able to do a chin up… Something is very, very wrong.[/quote]

I would say this is spot on. Except the last part, i can do a good few chin ups if im fresh, but not wide grip pull ups.

OK i will outline my routine:

Back
Deadlift (work up to 5rm, then drop the weight and go for 8 reps or so)
Yates row 3 x 6-8
DB row 3 x 10-12
pulldown or cable row, 2 x 12-15 just as a finisher going for maximum MMC
DB curls 2 x 10-12
incline curls 2 x 10-12

Chest
Incline DB press 3 x 6-8
flat DB press 3 x 10-12
incline flyes 3 x 10-12
cable pushdown 3 x 12-15
standing overhead DB extensions 3 x 8-10

Legs
squats 3 x 10
RDL 3 x 10-12
leg press 2 x 12-15
leg curl 2 x 12-15
leg extension finisher, pump set

Shoulders, arms
Db press 3 x 10-12
db lateral raises, probably 4 sets of 12-15, go by feel for these
Dips 3 x 8 superset with overhead DB extension 3 x 10-12
BB curl or DB curl 3 x 8-10
incline curl 3 x 10-12
pinwheel curls 2 x 12-15

For shoulders day i should probably just do OHP 3 x 5, then laterals, and ditch the rest of the tricep work go straight to biceps.

[quote]powell3120 wrote:
You’re claiming your ass is fat. If you’re program is so great, and your diet is spot on, then what’s the damn problem?[/quote]

probably low test levels and tiny bones in upper body

I dont mean a board press i mean literally using about 1/10th ROM, but anyway im sure you are not that type of trainer or you wouldn’t be on T-Nation because that means you are the type to research and take pride in what you do as a trainer, much the same as i do as a trainee. So i hope you can relate that i am not totally ignorant, i have read, trained, eaten and slept to try and make this work.

So let me ask you, if a PT looks good, is that a good indication of their ability? I have seen a trainer who is a bodybuilder, but i dont know if that means he would be able to train.

[quote]stinger70 wrote:
Just one if im lucky. With palms facing i can do a few but not perfect form. Now that you mention it that is probably the best way to show how poor my weight distribution is. Most untrained guys can do a few pullups.[/quote]

Pull/chins are generally the accepted benchmark of upper body strength.

If you can’t do a single pull-up and the couple chins you can have shit form, then you are weak. Period.

It doesn’t have anything to do with weight distribution.

Here’s a personal example. I was overweight for most of my life. I have incredibly tiny shoulders and my body likes to pile most of my bf around my ass and thighs. Then my brother got me into lifting.

After a failed progression, etc, I got something of a proper start back in June and effectively raised my lifts to the following max after three or so months.

Dead-lift-200-350
Squat-135-250
OHP-60-115
Bench-80-160
DB rows-45-95
Chins(pull-ups screw with my shoulders for some reason)-2-14

My upper body is weak. No question. Either due to crap form or a mental block after an accident with the bench. Dips made a huge progress toward improving my bench #though, so I’m thinking weak triceps had a lot to do with it.

Either way, during said three or so months, I saw a progression where my bf dropped from the previous 15-16% to 12%, and my shoulders and back got noticeably larger due to the muscle I put on. End result- I no longer had what is derisively called a duck’s ass and my shoulders looked larger than my hip/lower body.

Then I got De Quervain’s and had to stop lifting and am back to where i started :frowning: finally healed though and an looking forward to starting again.

Anyways, you really shouldn’t be worried about potential hormonal imbalances and small bone structures and such shit until you can do 15+ chins and heavy rows/dead lift 2x your bw. If you do all those while packing muscle and still have a hip wider than your shoulde, then you should start worrying.

alrighty…

you, sir, have a very nice ass!!

(i’m a chick, so no homo)

any chick who tells you otherwise is JEALOUS.

you are doing alright. the situation is so much better than i feared… you do look like you lift. well done.

with the pull-ups…

you stopped doing them because you worried you couldn’t do enough to do a ‘proper set’ yeah?

well add them back in and do as many as you can. for me (i’m a chick remember) one pull up is in fact a ‘proper set’ and if i get 10 of them done in one training session i’ve done good work that day.

there are a few articles on this site about getting better at pull ups. they all say the same thing: people who are good at pullups practice their pullups and people who aren’t good at pullups don’t practice their pullups.

practice your pullups!! it will be better for your body (most probably) to be doing them… better than rowing… better than lat pulling… get the volume in even if you can’t do heaps of TUT the situation will sort itself out with PRACTICE.

i’m starting to think i agree with the dude who was like ‘quit bitching and keep working!’ sounds like you ARE doing the work and these things take TIME. i disagree that you are too fat (fwiw). to me… you look like you are doing things right with your bulk. but… ymmv and what would i know?

oh…

you seem to have some anterior pelvic tilt at times… watching the vid with your row set up. i mean, you seem to be holding your spine safe for the rowing, yes, but you do seem to have a little of the anterior pelvic tilt at times which of course makes your ass stick out more than it would otherwise (smack, smack :slight_smile:

i prescribe some posterior pelvic tilting ab work for you…

dunno how SS is a shit routine? your new routine looks like shit

<1 year of SS you’d have better bench #'s than what you have now

suggest you stop inventing your own routines and find a credible one

[quote]alexus wrote:

i prescribe some posterior pelvic tilting ab work for you…[/quote]

or actually…
based on recent articles on this site…

i’ve prescribe you learn to plank with a slight posterior pelvic tilt
and then (horror of horrors) make yourself hold that position when you do your pull-ups.

if i were you… i’d do them with a variety of grips. pronated (pull-ups) for the lats and also supinated (chin-ups) for the biceps.

i’m not entirely sure why you do (as you say) seem to be adding bulk appreciably to your lower body before your upper body (your lower body looks like you do your squats and deads, while your upper body doesn’t really look as though you lift, as you say).

i do know… that generally speaking… guys have the reverse problem. it really does look ridiculous how a lot of gym dudes have sort of muscle mass to their upper body on chicken stick legs… and they look PROUD of their progress… and guys are upper body focused, of course, because it simply won’t do to be making a fuss of each others asses :slight_smile:

i think some people may tell you that 5x5 or 5/3/1 programs really aren’t optimal from a BODYBUILDING pov. that for SOME people they work out just fine but that for other people (yes, perhaps for you) you need something more specifically bodybuilding focused in order for you to build that mass onto your upper body.

I guess my worry (from my obviously biased pov) i’d say keep on with the lower body stuff because whatever you are doing 'tis working for ya!

but perhaps upper body stuff needs tweaking?

since pull-ups / chin-ups were something that you dismissed fairly early on… they may in fact be the way. they are easy on your lower back, too (noticing you were wearing a belt for those rows). how is your overhead press coming along?

AND (honestly feel free to ignore me by the way, because maybe i have no freaking idea what i’m talking about:

That is what i based my routine off actually. Only difference is i no longer do OHP or BB bench, i use DBs, and i dont use the 531 rep scheme for main lifts because i can still progress faster than that especially in deadlift, so it makes sense to do so. It is a good routine.

it sounds as though NATURALLY you got good lower body strength / development going on.

but that NATURALLY things are harder for you in the upper body department.

I’m the reverse. Which wouldn’t be so bad for me IF I WAS A DUDE but I’m not, so that kinda sucks :frowning:

maybe… you should lose the Dumbbells for upper body and replace them with Barbells?

I mean… Dumbbells are meant to be good for… Fixing up left and right imbalances. For some people… Imbalances limit their growth.

But do you see how ‘LET ME LIFT MORE WEIGHT ALREADY!!’ worked out for your lower body (e.g., progressing faster than 5/3/1 would prescribe) for your deadlift? lower body: coming along quite well.

Maybe… You need to break out the barbells (which allow you to lift more weight with your upper body) and of course the pull up bar which is a freaking mind-fuck as well… Maybe that is the way forwards for you?

(Of course some people say ‘take the load right off and feel out the mind-muscle connection’. I guess i’m basing my guess on 'if something seems to be working (e.g., your lower body program) then keep doing it. if something doesn’t seem to be working (e.g., your upper body program) then do something different. what to do with your upper body? perhaps train it more like your lower body??? Do you think your ass would be what it is today if you had done one legged deadlifts and pistols???)

in other words: HEAVY weight for you. bllateral (barbell) focus. if pulling your ass over that bar is hard work - it IS hard work. that is cool. do it. you will get stronger. eventually… you will be breaking out the pull-ups with a 20kg plate. BADASS! when progress stalls… then maybe it will be time to try something else (e.g., bring back dumbbells, feel out the mind-muscle connection, do a bunch of isolation movements etc)

(but then i’m into olympic lifting and i think oly lifters have a balanced physique (to many people their legs / asses are too big). i think mma fighters look odd because they have piddly little legs which is possibly why they end up on the ground all the time…)

Buy an other miror
Stop looking
Get lean
Problem solve !

[quote]magick wrote:

Dead-lift-200-350
Squat-135-250
OHP-60-115
Bench-80-160
DB rows-45-95
Chins(pull-ups screw with my shoulders for some reason)-2-14

Either way, during said three or so months, I saw a progression where my bf dropped from the previous 15-16% to 12%, and my shoulders and back got noticeably larger due to the muscle I put on. End result- I no longer had what is derisively called a duck’s ass and my shoulders looked larger than my hip/lower body.
[/quote]

Please post before and after pics, or at least after pics for motivation. All your lifts are either the same as or weaker than mine yet you could do 14 chin ups and i can do 1? something doesnt add up here. How can we be the same in all lifts except you are 1300% better at one exercise…

As for Alexus, wow thanks for all the input, too much to quote. You are the only one that has identified that what im saying is true and i do have a lower body bias, be that good or bad. I appreciate the objectivity. I think most guys cant identify with growing in this fashion because its so out of the ordinary for them. You also pointed out, which i have found countless times from reading t nation, that 531 or SS type routines MAY not be the best option for someone like me.

I used to believe that squats would make my arms grow, until i did some curls for the first time and they grew an inch in a month. I guess with time my upper body will fill out enough to look respectable. I just always thought that by 200lbs i would be approaching that level. It will take a lot longer for someone with my genetics to reach that level.

As for SS and benching as someone mentioned, what a waste of time. I gained 20lb bodyweight and my 3 x 5 bench went up about 15lbs. Every time i reset and got back to 55kg i would fail and the bar would drop on my chest lol. I need at least some volume for upper body to make progress.

That’s because SS is a STRENGTH program for beginners, not a BODYBUILDING program.

The idea is that all newbies will grow some amounts of muscle and build a (compared to the starting point) good bit of strength from the rather quick weight progression in SS.

Obviously it’s not for you. It has its flaws, but for a beginner’s program it is quite good because it places emphasis on doing the big four and not superfluous crap that doesn’t build strength.

I can’t believe you think squats will grow your arms. Did you take Mr. Rippetoe’s comments about how SS will make your body grow everywhere seriously? How will squats affect your arms when they’re not doing anything?

FYI, I’ve noticed the same thing as you did. I started with SS, but besides my dead-lift nothing improved. SS did nothing to grow my arms. All I did was gain weight when I tried to bulk the way Rippetoe said. So I changed things. I lifted everyday. I did all four main lifts 3x a week and push-ups and chins 3x a week as well. In response, I built the above-mentioned lifts. In return, I got De Quervain’s tenosynovitis on my left wrist and have been unable to exercise for the past three months besides walk/jog.

Know what made my arms grow? Dips and close-armed push-ups for my triceps. Chins and DB curls for my biceps.

I focused almost entirely on full-body movements besides the curls and db rows because body image wasn’t a particular concern. I just wanted to be stronger than I was previously. This is also why I won’t bother posting a picture. It’ll be absolutely not be what you expect. Esp. since the last three months spent doing nothing.

Anyways, body speaking-wise. I think I’m the same as you. I put muscle/fat on much easier on my thighs and hips far more than I do on my upper body. I think what’s happening with you is that your lack of chin/pull-ups and a slight surplus in calories is making you slowly pack on some weight on your lower body. The lack of chins/pull-ups is preventing you from building a proper, wide back that is essential to building a large upper body. Do those for a couple of months, and you’ll start looking bigger on your thighs.

While I do put muscle on much easier on my lower body, the fat-loss that came along with my heavy lifting while building my back made me look more properly masculine.

My only advice to you is do your chins at the expense of everything else. Your chins are absolutely essential to building both proper strength and physique.

If you can’t do chins, then go fucking do negatives. Get yourself up on top of the bar in the chin-up position, then take five seconds to slowly bring yourself down to the ground. Do it five times. Then rest a minute or so and do it again. So on and so forth.

After a week or so of doing that, start doing tiny bits of chins. Two reps, then rest a minute and a half, then do another two reps. Keep that up till you hit some arbitrary high number. I initially used thirty, then went up to forty. Every week add another rep. After several months, you’ll be finish the forty reps in just three-four sets.

Apologies for the essay, but I do think that you’re stuck in a very narrow mindset atm and refusing to push yourself beyond your comfort zones because you don’t think it’ll be worth it. I’m just trying to say that I made the same mistakes you’ve made. My bodyshape sounds the same as yours. The only difference is that I got inventive and did whatever it took while you started looking at genetics and bone-structure to determine whether there’s something wrong.

There could be something wrong with your body structure. I still have considerably smaller shoulders than my brother, even though he can’t do a single pull-up and hasn’t lifted in years. He just has a bigger build than me. But until you’re dead-lifting 2x your bw for a couple reps (374 assuming you’re still 187lb) and doing at least 10 chins without trouble, you haven’t even built your strength to the point where you’ll start seeing the appropriate physical changes.

Instead of trying a BB routine, maybe go on a full strength routine and focus on just the big four and good calisthenics? Just do the OHP/Bench/Squat/Dead-lift as your main lift while you do push-ups/dips/chins/good mornings or similar/some form of row/a bit of bicep curl just to add size if you’re like me and nothing else adds size to your biceps.

Just try that for four-five months. But focus mostly on your chins if you’re going to continue with a BB routine. Cause your chins suck.

A bit of an addendum-
Your info board states that you’re 6ft 2 and 187lb.

I am a good five inches shorter and close to thirty pounds lighter than you. You shouldn’t be comparing the current amount of weight you’re lifting to mine. We’re both very different in terms of body design due to the extreme difference in height.

you’re just storing fat in your lower body though, it’s not like your lower body is any more developed than upper

230 lb squat at 200 after 2 years is below average

i don’t understand why you would drop heavy compounds out of your routine either, it makes no sense at all.

if you want overall growth, you will put the heaviest lifts possible back into your routine. BB Bench, OHP, Rows, etc. Do that until you are a decent size, then worry about specific muscles w/ isolation exercises

your routine is one of the most poorly designed routines i’ve ever seen, are you doing it because it allows you to be in the gym almost every day? and hitting failure ~15 times per workout on 1 muscle group? horrible

[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
230 lb squat at 200 after 2 years is below average
[/quote]

i squatted today, 220 for 3 x 5. Not great i know. I’d say i’ve been lifting 18 months as i fractured both my arms in the 2 year time span.

I havent. Just swithced upper body movements to DB because from everything i read they are better.

Lol nice exaggeration. I used the template from bodybuilding bible thread, its a pretty normal BB routine. Im in the gym 4 days a week which is low frequency by t nation standards. How do i hit failure 15 times per workout lol wtf where are u making this up from? I aim for failure on last set or two of main compounds.

also here is a picture of my back flexed. Not huge or anything but it doesn’t look like the back of someone who can do 1 pullup right?:confused:

[quote]stinger70 wrote:

[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
230 lb squat at 200 after 2 years is below average
[/quote]

i squatted today, 220 for 3 x 5. Not great i know. I’d say i’ve been lifting 18 months as i fractured both my arms in the 2 year time span.

I havent. Just swithced upper body movements to DB because from everything i read they are better.

Lol nice exaggeration. I used the template from bodybuilding bible thread, its a pretty normal BB routine. Im in the gym 4 days a week which is low frequency by t nation standards. How do i hit failure 15 times per workout lol wtf where are u making this up from? I aim for failure on last set or two of main compounds.[/quote]

just read that thread… it is too broad to be useful for a beginner

people like you read it and come up with horrible routines, not much of a bible…

you have arm exercises on back day, and arm exercises on chest day, I don’t get it?

if you just did for your chest, 1 set to failure of barbell bench, 8-12 reps, 3x a week, you’d have better gains than what you are doing now…

I don’t think people with a 160 bench should only be benching once a week either

Nearlly every routine i’ve ever seen has bi/tri paired with back/chest in one order or another. Not sure what you find strange about that.

I’ve been on an upper/lower split, 2 x per week frequency, that was about the same in terms of gains. I’ve not heard of benching 3 x per week before. When i was benching twice a week i was able to put a bit more weight on the lift, but i’ve made better gains in size since i ditched that method. I was developing a boob-like chest with no upper whatsoever.

Honestly, given how little progress you’ve made over the past 18 months, the routine itself may not be your problem.

My initial thought would be that you need to be eating more. 187lbs after two years indicates likely undereating given your height.

My second thought, which may be more likely, is a lack of intensity. I’ve been training a friend for whom it really took probably a year for him to internalize how to really physically exert himself. He hadn’t really played any sports as a kid, and it just wasn’t intuitive to him like it is for many. This may be your problem: objectively assess how hard you are working in the gym.

[quote]stinger70 wrote:
Nearlly every routine i’ve ever seen has bi/tri paired with back/chest in one order or another. Not sure what you find strange about that.

I’ve been on an upper/lower split, 2 x per week frequency, that was about the same in terms of gains. I’ve not heard of benching 3 x per week before. When i was benching twice a week i was able to put a bit more weight on the lift, but i’ve made better gains in size since i ditched that method. I was developing a boob-like chest with no upper whatsoever.[/quote]

you have them paired + on separate days

boob chest = eating too much food, why would it be caused by working out more frequently???

I don’t know where you learned to track size but that is not what you should be basing your routine off of. Base your routine off of increasing your lifts every week. If you aren’t increasing your reps by 1-2 every week, then you are making bad progress.

Boob chest from flat benching since day 1 and no incline is what i mean. Im adding weight to deadlift every week, and adding reps and then weight once i hit the top of the rep range to everything else every week. For example started doing incline bench with 28kg x 7, then 8, then 30 x 6, last workout got 32 x 6 but it was a struggle.

any new exercise = lifts going up faster than normal, don’t think of it as muscle gains though

you must’ve stalled on something, if you were increasing weight/reps on bench every week you wouldn’t be at 160 after 20 months