Steroids -- a Waste of Money

Training Bodybuilding
21

Rick James- Well said man… well… said… I couldn’t agree more.

If you have any ambition to locate AAS they are easily obtainable. They are a viable option for anyone who chooses to do them just as protein powders, MRPs, multi-vitamins, prohormones or any other ‘supplements’ are. Yes, steroids are ‘supplements,’ albeit illegal ones. The choice to administer them or not is soly up to the individual.

The most difficult mental aspect about steroids is the fact that you know that once you start it’s going to be mighty hard to stop. You know that without them your pumps aren’t going to be quite as hard, your recovery isn’t quite as fast, and your gains aren’t as rapid. And for that reason I think that you should be 100% sure that you have self control while administering AAS.

Rick James, yes, steroids are only cheating if you are in an association where they are banned (all professional and NCAA sports). There is no cheating in the game of life, you do what you have to do to survive.

If professional sports commissioners really want to clean up their respective sports they need to implement actual surprise testing during the season and off season. Not the usual “Ok Mr. Bonds you’re going to be tested in two weeks, be ready.” With all the highly effective short half-life AAS it wouldn’t be too difficult to halt administration 2 weeks prior and avoid a positive test.

If you’re like most AAS users and you’re not participating in a professional or collegient sport you have no one but the law enforcement to stop you. Whether you have children, a significant other, or both, the choice to subject them to your illegal drugs use is your choice; hopefully you will make the right one–whatever that is.

Let’s face it, as mentioned in a previous response, AAS are as cheap if not cheaper than a lot of supplements, especially prohormones (VPX-don’t even get me started on them). This alone pushes a lot of people to the black market for both a cheaper AND more effective ‘supplement.’

It frustrates the hell out of me to hear these sports analysts and others talk about steroids like they’re some kind of biochemist. “…because of these dangerous steroids Jason Giambi grew a tumor on his pituitary gland.” Statements like that one and some in previous posts just make me cringe. Bottom line, if you’re not thoroughly educated on steroid use then you need to just keep your mouth shut… Or go raid some Martha Stewart forum because god knows you know more about her line of work than you do about anything in here…
T-M@tt

22

Rick James wrote:
“intelligent steroid users take steroids so they CAN work harder.”

Yes they can. But they’re not doing steroids because they just love to work harder, they’re taking them to get big. I don’t give a rat’s ass how hard they work - they owe it to juice.

I know that pro bodybuilders work hard, so what? They’re still fakes and deserve zero admiration. Again, if you don’t have a physical condition, being so obsessed with getting bigger than you regularly can clearly indicates a mental condition.

23

I’m curious, what is one allowed to do to build muscle “regularly?” Are protein powders and creatine regular? How about some of the not so regular diets found on T-Nation?

It really is foolish to claim that anyone who uses steroids or other drugs to build muscle has a mental condition.

Besides, the classification of many substances is arbitrary at best. Politicians are largely responsible for determining what’s a legal supplement and what’s a scheduled drug.

24

I’ve never taken steroids, but I certainly go to the damned gym so I can increase my muscle mass.

I guess that gives me the same “mental problem” that w20 is referring to. Everyone else using the weights at my gym suffers from the same condition too.

Go figure.

25

ChrisKing wrote:
“I’m curious, what is one allowed to do to build muscle “regularly”?”

Not inflate themselves with highly anabolic substances that are responsible for the majority of their mass. If your muscle holds on a pill, you’re fake. Supplements can only do so much. But when you’re twice the size than you could get with food because you do roids…

“It really is foolish to claim that anyone who uses steroids or other drugs to build muscle has a mental condition.”

I didn’t say everyone. It’s people who are obsessed enough to regularly use steroids to look bigger for looks.

vroom wrote:
"I’ve never taken steroids, but I certainly go to the damned gym so I can increase my muscle mass.

I guess that gives me the same “mental problem” that w20 is referring to. Everyone else using the weights at my gym suffers from the same condition too."

Not so. You’re not maniacly obsessed as to use steroids. You have yourself to thank for your gains.

26

[quote]w2097 wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
“I’m curious, what is one allowed to do to build muscle “regularly”?”

Not inflate themselves with highly anabolic substances that are responsible for the majority of their mass.[/quote]

I’m confused. Should I not eat food? Because, sit down for this one, food is “highly anabolic”.

I think you are really just having your own personal, ethical dilemma with the use of steroids. Would you feel this strongly if they were legal and allowed in all sporting orginizations?

I don’t really understand what the issue is here. Almost everyone is replying in the same manner. Basically everyone is saying, “Steriods are a personal decision and I do or don’t take them for such and such reason.”

But you have this angry attitude that no one should use them, but you don’t give any valid reasons why. Please help me to understand.

I’d drink my own piss if it made me stronger,
Toddy

27

I’d have to agree with you Malone. Most of these posts are made with an emotional bias. With this being said ,I like most of you, will repeat the fact that steroid use is a personal decision. Which presents the question of why are the rest of you so angry about someone ELSES drug use. I can agree that steroid use should be reserved for those with strict diets training and experience, but why the bitter shots at those who have peaked, and wish to take their training to the next level. Do they not deserve to push past their potential, is it un-natural, is it “CHEATING”. This is an interesting concept, are the shoes and gloves you wear cheating? For those of you who supplement is the use of creatine cheating?. But wait you say steroids aren’t like equipment, they’re drugs, they need to be injected or ingested. This taboo that steroids have takin on is what fuels most of these comments. The legality and the use of a syringe connects juicers with that of crack and heroine addicts. Another subject in this post that bothered me was the magical potion some of you beleive steroids to be, like it is reserved for the lazy. Contrary to your beliefs no matter how much shit your pumping in, if your not training hard and fueling your body correctly, your drug use will be all for not. So no the ripped guy you see at the gym repping 325 at the bench press isnt watching tv, eating potatoe chips and popping a couple d-bol. Finally, for those who need, want, and deserve the gains that can be made on steroid use: No it isn’t a waste of money. More importantly if you do not use AAS, why are you worrying about the one who do? If you want to be natural then be happy with what you can accomplish and be proud to master your genetics. With this in mind don’t get mad when you see someone far more ripped and muscular and blame it solely on drugs, he didnt get there just by sticking a needle in his ass. Jealousy leads to ignorant comments. You made your decision and he made his. Leave it at that.

28

[quote]T1gNaL1 wrote:
I can agree that steroid use should be reserved for those with strict diets training and experience, but why the bitter shots at those who have peaked, and wish to take their training to the next level. [/quote]

Everybody here can jack juice until they balls fall off, and I wouldn’t care either way as long as they were satisfied with their results and didn’t use their new found hormonal powers in defense of the forces of evil.

It does seem however that everybody missed my main point that I don’t think that you have even scratched the surface of your potential, let alone “peaked”, until you have had a chance to work with at least one knowledgable and experienced coach.

I didn’t intend this thread to be a moral discussion. Forgive me for using sensationalism to attract readers. I guess I’ve been wacthing too much Fox recently.

29

Who cares, did you see the knockers on that chick under t-matt’s name?

30

If you haven?t gotten your girlfriend or wife pregnant because she is on birth control is that considered cheating also?

Birth control is also a form of steroids.

31

[quote]w2097 wrote:
Not inflate themselves with highly anabolic substances that are responsible for the majority of their mass. If your muscle holds on a pill, you’re fake. Supplements can only do so much. But when you’re twice the size than you could get with food because you do roids…[/quote]

Ronnie Coleman uses a lot of steroids, and is about the biggest freak on this planet. He could have well over 200lbs of LBM without steroids, yet he doesn’t even weigh 300lbs lean, so he doesn’t have 300lbs of LBM. So he gets significantly less than 50% more LBM “from steroids”. You are throwing out shock value numbers that have no place in reality.

Also, his muscle is not there just because of a “pill” (we’ll skip the fact that most steroids should be injected). If he stopped lifting, he would lose muscle, just as if he stopped eating properly or using steroids. So in your logic, all of these things are just as responsible for “his muscle”.

And I assure you, his muscle is not fake. Synthol is fake, but muscles created by blood, sweat, tears, and steroids are mighty real and functional as well. We all go through cutting and bulking cycles. What’s wrong with him having “on” and “off” times if he’s happy with himself? I’m glad that you’re judge and jury for the world. You really sound bitter.

An old saying: “Obsessed” is a word the lazy use for the dedicated. It fits here. There are people with legitimate body dysmorphia issues, but they are more rare than you think. We all have minor issues about the way we look. Women want to be thinner, guys want to be bigger, blah blah blah. There is nothing wrong with wanting to look better nor with taking risks to achieve it. Again, you are not the moral police.

Why do you have to be “maniacly obsessed” to use steroids? You still have not explained this. I guess I’m “maniacly obsessed” to lift heavy weights, because I could die under the squat bar. Hey guys, we’re all crazy!

Please. You are a bitter, jealous, little individual who has no idea what it takes to get big or what steroids do or do not for you. Your opinoin is bigoted and of little value. As I said before, if this is a huge crusade, how about you tell steroid users in your gym that their muscles are fake. But you wouldn’t do that, because it’s so much easier to just sit at home behind the keyboard and spout off about the world’s injustices without actually, I don’t know, DOING anything about it.

32

Don’t worry about what other people do, just worry about how you’re going to do what you want to do.

I’ve never taken anabolics, but the anti drug guys i’ve know over 25 years seem to fit in the whiny little bitch catergory as opposed to the durg guys.

The drug guys have been more helpful towards me thatn the other crowd, and have seemed to be more along the lines of live and let live.

Three weeks ago I treated Louie Simmons at the IPA nationals and had a great talk with him. He was helpful and very decent. You can tell the man loves lifting.

Who cares if he uses?

33

malonetd wrote:
“I’m confused. Should I not eat food? Because, sit down for this one, food is “highly anabolic”.”

Sure, pop a pill and get big and ripped.

“I think you are really just having your own personal, ethical dilemma with the use of steroids. Would you feel this strongly if they were legal and allowed in all sporting orginizations?”

Yes. Sport would cease to exist in the way we know them today if steroids were completely allowed. Nobody would aspire to sports and the whole notion of achievemnt and competition would be meaningless.

“But you have this angry attitude that no one should use them, but you don’t give any valid reasons why. Please help me to understand.”

What I’m against is pro-bodybuilders and such. I just hate inflated posers, period. People who are in such a pathetic relationship with their ego desrve only bashing. I know performance steroids are impossible to completely track, but if it were possible, it’d be great to see people achieving their goals fairly. And at least there’d be some actual rolemodels. Steroids were designed to help people with physical conditions to recover, not help some ADD retard get huge to make up for his punny balls.

“but why the bitter shots at those who have peaked, and wish to take their training to the next level. Do they not deserve to push past their potential”

I don’t mind if people use roids to get past plateaus. But if they’re on juice the majority of time then screw them.

RickJames, thanks for the two page insult, you’ve finally proven to everyone that you’re not one of those lazy, jealous little people who sit behind the keyboard being the moral police.

Now on to the topic… Coleman would have never achieved that look without roids. He’s a fake, plain and simple. Steroids are a magic bullet. Do I want them banned? No. But I want them admitted. I don’t want bodybuilding contests where everyone was practically putting syringes in their nuts, yet nowhere is it mentioned that this is a contest for juiced competitors. I want them to say openly - this is a contest woth a drug free-for-all. If they can do that, I’m satisfied.

As for obsession, simple. You can bet pretty buff and ripped without juice. Now one must be a very impatient and weak to go with roids. It’s exactly the same as getting a bicep implant, only with more maintanance.

34

I’m glad you realized it. It is plainly evident by the fact that I’m here defending others’ efforts that you so quickly attack. You attack people that bust their ass for a dream. I defend them. Sorry if that bothers you.

He never would have achieved that look without his parents, lifting weights, eating right, protein powders, a little luck in life, etc. How are any of those things different from steroids by your definition? What are we allowed to use to get larger that will not make us “fake”? Please tell me this; I’m dying to know what it will take to please you.

I will go out on a limb and answer for you. You will probably narrow it down to only the things that you do and are comfortable with. I imagine also that anyone who is larger than you is, in your mind, using steroids, has better genetics, or something else besides the fact that they just work harder and/or smarter than you.

Again, no. I have seen plenty of morons juice and look no better than they did before. Go check out steroids forums with pictures of their members - you will find several that barely look like they train. Steroids need to be used wisely along with good training and diet habits to give you success. Your basic misunderstanding of steroids completely invalidates your opinion on this matter.

If you do understand steroids well, then please write me out a cycle that you would use to gain mass with very little fat gain. I want drug names and dosages. You can probably even google this, but you’ll know the truth of whether or not you know anything about “steroids”.

They’ll get right on that for you!

They basically do. There are natural competitions and those not deemed as natural. Do the math on which allows steroid usage.

You do understand why most people don’t come out and say what they’re on, right? This thing called the law. Hell, most of these guys (bodybuilders and other strength athletes) will tell you what they’re taking, but not publicly. It would be stupid in the United States to do so.

[quote]As for obsession, simple. You can bet pretty buff and ripped without juice. Now one must be a very impatient and weak to go with roids. It’s exactly the same as getting a bicep implant, only with more maintanance.
[/quote]

Why do you have to be impatient to use steroids? Most men will not reach their “genetic potential” or whatever from a bodybuilding standpoint until their late 30’s (same for several strength sports). By the time you reach your “potential”, why bother? Many people take steroids to remain competitive in their sports (bodybuilding and other sports). It is a fact of life and here to stay. I wish that it wasn’t, but if I had every wish, I wouldn’t be posting on the internet. I’d be having a three-way with Stacy Keibler and Trish Stratus right now.

It’s not exactly the same as getting a bicep implant, because you actually get legitimate muscle there. Functional muscle. Now if they could implant a larger bicep muscle there, I could see more of an analogy. By your reasoning, taking supplements or eating more protein would be the same thing as a bicep implant. That’s insane.

35

well,before you say ‘roids are a waste of money, you’ve got to evaluate the trainees’ goals. if you lift to be healthy, or because you enjoy it, then i would agree that they’re a waste. those peole are the more typical recreational lifters.

now, if you need to be bigger for a sport or image issue, then i guess the juice is for you. there is no supplements as effective as steroids-case in point: back in an old issue of Muscle Media 2000 (before it sucked), there was a pulished study involving testosterone. one group did not lift or take roids, one group lifted but did not take roids, one group took roids but did not lift, and the final group juiced and lifted. well, the non-training stroids users increased their muscle mass and fat loss over the non-using lifters (and obviously the steroid using lifters out-performed evryone). that study proved how powerful testoerone is…

how 'bout if you used steroids for your personal saftey (if you’re combat arms in the military of a cop in an urban hell-hole) and the saftey of others? that’s an issue that i am personally wrestling with…is it worth it to be able to apprehend a criminal without being hurt or having anyone else hurt, due to the increased strength and size,but still committing a felony??

i guess my point is, steroid use is a very personal issue, dependant on one’s goals and expectations.

36

RickJames wrote:
"They basically do. There are natural competitions and those not deemed as natural. Do the math on which allows steroid usage.

You do understand why most people don’t come out and say what they’re on, right? This thing called the law. Hell, most of these guys (bodybuilders and other strength athletes) will tell you what they’re taking, but not publicly. It would be stupid in the United States to do so."

Yeah, but then they go and pose in mags and advertise supplements and post their training programs. That’s alot of bull.

“He never would have achieved that look without his parents, lifting weights, eating right, protein powders, a little luck in life, etc. How are any of those things different from steroids by your definition?”

You know what I meant by that, quit pretending. Most pro bodybuilders don’t know dick about training, they only know how to train with juice. Their size, their training, rippedness, diet - everything revolves around steroids. Some people aren’t educated enough to make a smart cycle and some just don’t respond well to them, but non the less roids are a magic bullet. They enhance recovery and growth to beyond genetic limits in relatively short periods of time. These contests are pharmaceuptical competitions way more than between people. And they’ve also violated the last good notion of bodybuilding - beauty. It used to be proportional human bodies, now they’re all ugly as hell, disproportional and just compete in who gets the best drug combo and puffs up bigger than the rest. How can anyone respect that?

cycobushmaster wrote:

“how 'bout if you used steroids for your personal saftey (if you’re combat arms in the military of a cop in an urban hell-hole) and the saftey of others? that’s an issue that i am personally wrestling with…is it worth it to be able to apprehend a criminal without being hurt or having anyone else hurt, due to the increased strength and size,but still committing a felony??”

This is another case where steroids should be perfectly acceptable.