@T3hPwnisher and @magick At least tell me you have both served in the military and taken this oath that you have so dully defended against these treasonous oath breakers?
And MagicK, you mentioned a person lacks integrity because they have broken a law they agreed to follow just by joining that organization.
Does that go the same for citizens who want to use AAS’s or PED’s? Most live in a society where those are illegal. Do they also lack the integrity? Does that go for all UCMJ articles or just what you personally believe?
You are right to a point. It all depends on what type of Courts Martial you go in front of. If it is a Special Court Martial, you could receive a Bad Conduct Discharge. There are huge consequences to receiving a BCD or even a Dishonorable Discharge. Such as not receiving any of the VA benefits you may be entitled to. That includes Educational benefits.
To clarify further: private citizens are indeed bound by the laws of the nation and should they be caught breaking such laws. It seems fairly obvious that there is an added layer of dissonance required for someone that is joining a force to protect the nation and/or uphold its laws to then decide that some of those laws do not apply to them. The debate here is not whether LEO’s and/or military (or even the general populace) should be permitted access to AAS (as another non-gear-user, I would have no problem if it AAS were fully legalized today). It’s that when there are laws, and you join a force to uphold and/or protect those laws, and then decide that some of those laws don’t apply to you, we have a logical inconsistency occurring here.
Unless they swore some sort of oath to not do so, no. Their integrity would not be called into question to the same degree. However, in instances where citizens swear oaths (such as when called to a witness stand, or marriage vows performed as part of a religious ceremony) and then violate them I would say yes, the same question of integrity occurs.
You will forgive me for not answering your question regarding my taking of said oath. With my photo prominently displayed by my username, lots of videos of me existing on the site, etc etc, I do try to keep details of my personal life as guarded as I can. I want you to be aware that I have seen your question asked and that I am not ignoring it, but would not feel comfortable answering where there is a record copy. If we ever were to meet in person, I’d be happy to discuss.
Literally just 100% to throw out an interesting dilemma, not to support either side, but what do you think of this?
“I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God”
Oath of Office for Commission Officers in the United States. Doesn’t say jack about the UCMJ. Would it be more acceptable for an officer to use PED’s, as while it is still risky, it is not violating an oath? Curious on your take.
I dont hold it against you. Putting to much info out there gives people that ability to Dox you. But at the same time, the absence and manner in which you answered leads me to believe you have taken an oath. You are probably prior military and LEO at some level.
Like you previously said, we are going to disagree to agree.
Just some examples, I know these aren’t parts of the discussion but
Gay marriage and gays in the military were not permitted and it violated the UCMJ a few years back. But with a stroke of the pen, now they are allowed. So if someone was gay while in the military previously, that violated UCMJ, did that call into question their integrity? I have nothing against gay people. I am just saying that according to law from one minute to the next, the Gov can decide what they think is best. I stopped drinking their Koolaid.
Again, oral sex in the military is violation of UCMJ, but does that call into question someone’s integrity because of what they choose to do in the bedroom? If it is my body and it doesn’t affect my work product, duty, or community then it doesn’t matter what I put into it. Just because the Gov said it is wrong doesn’t make it true nor does it make anyones character diminished because they choose to do as they like.
With it containing “well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office I am about to enter”, and the duties of the office mandating compliance with the UCMJ, I think you can infer need for compliance contained within the oath. Not as explicit, but it’d take some mental gymnastics to overcome it.
I believe this is along the same lines as to why Officers dont receive Good Conduct medals like enlisted do. Good behavior is expected or they place their Commission in jeopardy.
I came to a similar conclusion. If nothing else, even if not explicitly stated in your oath, you made a complicit agreement to obey the rules of the organization when you voluntarily entered it. Breaking the rules is simply violating a contract you chose to sign.
There is also some precedent that they want officers swearing to the constitution rather than a set guide of rules, so that they can violate the rules if need be in support of the constitution. Definitely seems to be an extreme scenarios only type of concern, but I suppose worth noting. Totally agree with your comments on the good conduct.
Best if you keep your mouth closed with any more details. Take note from how TehPwnisher answered questions. Just enough to make a point but never personal info except for philosophical views. To be honest, a few more details and that would be quite enough to find you or at least narrow it down.
You have described yourself physically, roughly have your PFT scores, where you are headed (BRAGG), what unit you dream of (Delta), you are 20,
Yup, you right, dumb move of me to ask that. Forgot this was the Pharma section and that we were talking about things other than the semantics of an oath.
Thats just the paranoia in me. But your question was legit. I didn’t put the connection together. I am assuming he is talking about a base Gym. Also, Chiefs being CWO’s?
I mean, it definitely happens. Had air force everywhere at Pearl Harbor, then ran into everyone under the sun at the Pentagon, so not like their aren’t joint bases, just not many. I didn’t see any comment about Chiefs being CWO, I think he was mentioning chiefs and officers as two different examples, not a combo, though I freely admit I was skimming at best and may have missed something.