[quote]eo1bart wrote:
I think there are 16 year old girls that can snatch more than me! [/quote]
There are. Depressing, I know, to be outlifted by a chick younger and smaller than you.
[quote]alexus wrote:
I think running properly is much, much harder than it is standardly made out to be.
That being said, if you think weightlifting is easier i’d love to see vids of your technique and hear the weights you are lifting.
[/quote]
My technique was sufficient, for me. I have never been very strong, of course trying to fix that.
Maybe I mixed the importance of the technique to the difficulty of the technique a little bit in my head. But I think they are little related. In my opinion, it’s fairly easy to reach a point in weightlifting where you are held back by your strength. Put 105 % of the max on the bar and you’ll know what is the problem, hehe. With running, the power or strength is nothing without control. There are things a runner has to constantly remember or else he’s finished, and not in a good way. Can anyone see my point?
[quote]Wrah wrote:
[quote]alexus wrote:
I think running properly is much, much harder than it is standardly made out to be.
That being said, if you think weightlifting is easier i’d love to see vids of your technique and hear the weights you are lifting.
[/quote]
My technique was sufficient, for me. I have never been very strong, of course trying to fix that.
Maybe I mixed the importance of the technique to the difficulty of the technique a little bit in my head. But I think they are little related. In my opinion, it’s fairly easy to reach a point in weightlifting where you are held back by your strength. Put 105 % of the max on the bar and you’ll know what is the problem, hehe. With running, the power or strength is nothing without control. There are things a runner has to constantly remember or else he’s finished, and not in a good way. Can anyone see my point?
[/quote]
I can see where you’re coming from. I’ve spent my fair share of time on the track as well as in the weight room, and I’ve read more than I can remember on both subjects. I’ll go so far as to say that sprinting, as in what sprinters who run track do, is pretty damn technical. And there are always cues that they need to remember and work on every time they train. I’m sure this is the same for even elite weightlifters. Nobody’s technique can be too good. That being said, I don’t think you can call weightlifting “easier” to learn than sprinting. Both are very technical, but when it comes down to it, sprinting is a natural movement, a snatch isn’t. Regardless, I can see where you were coming from with your post, considering all the minutiae involved in sprinting that most people are unaware of.
Alec
Thanks for explaining.
In my opinion, it’s fairly easy to reach a point in weightlifting where you are held back by your strength.
The standard view is that:
Olympic Weightlifting is indeed a measure or test of strength. The strength needs to be expressed through the medium of technique, however. Not very many lifters claim that their strength is limiting their lifts (e.g., so they need to focus the majority of their training on developing their strength). Rather, the majority of lifters express significant frustration that their technique is not good enough to allow them to express the strength that they in fact possess (e.g., so they need to focus the majority of their training on quality repetitions that are done with good technique).
With running, the power or strength is nothing without control.
That is what is commonly said about Olympic lifting, too. I mean, you can just chuck the weight up there any old how… But then you will experience people far weaker than you outlifting you. 16 year old girls, and so on. Perfect technique just is perfect technique when the lifter gets to perfectly express their strength. That is what makes it perfect technique.
I think I understand but disagree. But perhaps I don’t understand.
I wouldn’t say a stick as its too light but keep to just the bar or 40kgs for a while.
heh heh. the stick kick your ass lordstorm?
moving correctly with the stick takes some serious motor control. it is most unforgiving.
(and no i can’t do it. i can’t even get it to clear my knees right now)
You are right alexus. Weightlifting technique can be an art form on itself, definately. My “strength limit” argument didn’t make much sense, but lets say that I believe that some lifters get alot from technique training, some get none or little. Ok, I’m done with the subject.
devils advocate?
i agree that some lifters get none or little from technique training.
they are probably unsuited to the sport, however.
or they trained 6x a day for 3 years or whatever to get those good motor programs ingrained. and didn’t take a week or so off for them to get rusty…
well you can’t really get the “slingshot” or catapult effect with the stick thats why I think its not that good. 20kgs isn’t that much especially for an ex-powerlifter
“slingshot” or catapult effect with the stick
oh. i thought that effect was about speed of control of the hip.
i do actually think that it is in fact easier with a little bit of weight. the bar plays happier than the stick for me.
i’m not sure (vacillate) between thinking that getting as good with the stick as the bar would improve my motor control in a way that would have carry-over to my bar and weighted lifts…
and thinking that the stick might be irrelevant because there are some aspects you can’t do (you can’t push against a stick to make your descent fast, for instance - but you can learn to beat it. so maybe learning to beat it reliably is a good way to get pushing against a weight even faster)
dunno…
the slingshot/catapult basically happens naturally when you get it right. Thats why I believe the most important part is the 2nd pull. You get it right, strong and fast and the drop down will come naturally and will also be strong and fast
and you reckon it is impossible to get it right with the stick?
and / or getting it right with the stick (rather than 40kg) will not profit weighted lifts?
[quote]alexus wrote:
and you reckon it is impossible to get it right with the stick?
and / or getting it right with the stick (rather than 40kg) will not profit weighted lifts?[/quote]
I think a stick is great for shoulder stretching and getting a feel for the positions in a static way and the bar path (under a coach’s eye), but it will not feel like a loaded bar nor condition you to lift one. I snatch perfectly with a stick (or so I delude myself) but the loaded bar teaches me something different, like how important the first pull is for being properly positioned for the second pull. Can’t get the same feedback from the stick since I can move it around me, rather than having to move me around the bar.
I can move it around me, rather than having to move me around
yes, i understand that you can. but that would be cheating (in the sense that it defeats the purpose of the exercise. i mean you can just pick the stick up and lift it over your head but that fairly obviously won’t help you snatch much weight).
i’m fond of the stick - but do bar work and of course weighted work as well, lol. i just think stick work is a little under-rated, is all. but guess i will see… maybe the bar will become the new stick and then 40kg will become the new bar and so on… but maybe not. maybe if you can lift the stick perfectly you can lift anything (aka: perfectly express your strength).
i guess powerlifting is pretty technical, too. like running and olympic lifting. if you want to be the best you can be, i mean.
i don’t care if you got stronger…
i only care if you benched, squatted, or deadlifted more weight.
thanks for all the replies.
I had fun at my frst training session (yesterday), and am hoping to practise today.
I’m pretty sure the weakest in my chain is catching the bar after the clean and before the jerk.
How do you learn that?
I’m going to try and do 30-50 light reps of both the CJ and the snatch each day, so i can improve my form as fast as possible, but right now it feels like I’m really not getting that stage.
that just happens over time don’t worry about it. Just keep elbows high so the bar doesn’t fall down or something. It takes a bit of time to get used to the clean and then to remind yourself when you get up from the squat at the end of it to be going only about half speed so that the bar gets off your shoulders only slightly just to reposition the grip. Its okay for new people to take time to do that.
Coincidentally, I recently had to switch from WL to PL because doing Jerks injured my shoulders (thank god benching is OK!). I can tell you that I’m probably just unlucky though, as I haven’t met or heard someone who’s like me. Anyway, I wish you the best in this exciting sport!
ok, my catches are ok. I can c j 50 kgs with ease, although i find it hard to snatch it.
I think my new problem is getting dwn under the bar fast enough
any tips?
[quote]lnname wrote:
ok, my catches are ok. I can c j 50 kgs with ease, although i find it hard to snatch it.
I think my new problem is getting dwn under the bar fast enough
any tips?[/quote]
Give these a try:
www.californiastrength.com/olwete.html
And post some video for some feedback. I can’t be of much help there but I’m sure someone will :o)
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]lnname wrote:
ok, my catches are ok. I can c j 50 kgs with ease, although i find it hard to snatch it.
I think my new problem is getting dwn under the bar fast enough
any tips?[/quote]
Give these a try:
www.californiastrength.com/olwete.html
Thanks for the site thats great help!
I’ve recently started weight training and my strength isn’t that great yet (Full Squat ~215 and DL ~ 260 at 6" and 175 lbs ~9%BF) but i’ve been most interested in Oly lifts.
Its my first week into christian thibodeaux’s Black book of training secrets: ‘into program to Oly lifting’ and these complex movements are absolutely killer.
I think the most beneficial thing for me has been knowing when to quit when my form gives out. This is one type of traning that you can’t be tired for and make sure that before you go into every lift you know that if you train with bad form, in such a technical movement its going to take you 5x longer to try to correct it.
Just wanted say hey and that i think oly lifting is the best thing out there