Last year, I ran three 5k races and my average time was 24 minutes. I normally run 1-2 times a week, 2-3 miles. Preparing for these races, I was running 2-4 times a week, 2-3 miles.
This year, I decided to back off on the extra running and add conditioning workouts. Again, 1-2 runs per week, 2-3 miles. And then 1-2 barbell training days, followed by a short high-intensity workout. And one day on the weekend doing a conditioning workout. My race time, 24 minutes.
So, how do I improve?
I’ve added a 10lb weighted vest for roadwork. I also added trail-sprinting. It’s pretty flat where I live, so I’ve been visiting this State Park nearby with up down hills and have been sprinting the less than one mile trails. Figuring these new variables - weighted runs, sprints on uneven terrain - will help me improve.
Any other suggestions? I don’t do too much running during the late fall and winter, this is just my spring-summer thing.
I spent a couple of years as a semi-competitive distance runner (I’ve run an 18-minute 5K, 38-minute 10K, and a 1:27 half-marathon) and I trained with some people much faster than that, including a handful of borderline-Elite females, so I’m guessing that I have a bit more experience training for road races than most T-Nation posters…
Before we begin: how much of a priority is this to you? Because, quite frankly, it’s very simple: you’ll have to run more. You won’t get faster running that little. Sprints and weighted runs might be fun variants to your training, but they will have little-to-no benefit for your 5K time.
The answer isn’t always “Run More” but for someone running as little as you, it’s that simple.
Honestly, if you enjoy your current routine, then by all means stick with it. I enjoyed my time as a somewhat-competitive distance runner but am under no illusions that it’s best for optimal health, and currently I prefer a blend that includes cycling, yoga, lifting weights as well as running because I feel more well-rounded and less injury-prone. Just don’t harbor the illusion that sprints and weight-vest running are the path to a faster 5K. Perhaps a better physique, yes, but not a faster 5K.
My overall fitness is my highest priority. Breaking this two-year 24-minute 5k plateau is a cross between a personal goal and an experiment with training variables.
My next 5k is the last weekend of July, roughly 40 days from now. I train at least 5 days a week, 30-60 minutes per session. I might run 3 times per week the last two weeks before the race, but I really can?t see myself doing more than 2 days a week of straight running?be it the weighted vest running, trail sprinting, or plain old vanilla running.
My decision to change things up by adding the weighted vest and trail sprinting (normally, I was just plain road running) was due largely in part to a quote I read in an article recently on T-Nation by Mike Sheridan, ?The human body is extremely adaptable, which means diminishing returns in progress are inevitable unless a unique or more challenging stimulus is repeatedly introduced.? Like I said, part of this whole thing is a bit of an experiment?last year I ran more, this year I tried running less but upped workout intensity, and now I’m trying to run with a unique or more challenging stimulus.
I?ll tell you what, if the vest and sprinting make my body look better and I don?t run any slower I’ll be pretty happy with calling this a success.
[quote]alpha_mike wrote:
I?ll tell you what, if the vest and sprinting make my body look better and I don?t run any slower I’ll be pretty happy with calling this a success.
[/quote]
I totally understand your school of thought and (these days) am of a similar mind. Please take the following as good-natured commentary and no more.
I think you’re really underestimating the amount of running required to go from “hobby-jogger” speed to anything faster than that, and likewise, you are overestimating the effects that non-running stuff will have on running fitness. I ran 35-40 miles per week when I was running 18-19 minute 5K’s, and that is on the lower end of the spectrum of what most runners of comparable speed would do.
Running 3 miles 2-3 times a week is more than sufficient for “general fitness” and I think your split of exercise is fine, but I would not expect any improvement in 5K time (a pretty specific thing) with that lack of specificity in your training.
Below a certain point of fitness, any increase in physical activity will get you fitter at “everything” - take a sedentary person, time them in a 1-mile run, send them to yoga class three days a week for a couple months, and their 1-mile run time will improve just because they went from doing “nothing” to doing “something.” Test them in a deadlift, put them on an exercise bike three days a week, and their deadlift will probably improve a little bit. But once that basic level of “minimal” fitness is achieved, specificity will be a bigger deal.
You’re at that point now. A 24-minute 5K is not impressive by distance runner’s standards, but it’s fine by “general population” standards (for an equivalent, that’s probably about the equivalent of benching 225 pounds in the lifting community - you’re generally acknowledged as possessing a basic level of strength, but no one will call you an “advanced” lifter). Getting much fitter than that, frankly, will require some more running.
I can’t disagree with you that running more would be the surest way to improve. However, I’d like to actively challenge the statement you made about “underestimating the amount of running required to go from “hobby-jogger” speed to anything faster than that, and likewise, you are overestimating the effects that non-running stuff will have on running fitness”. Not saying for sure that I’m right, but I’d like to see if it makes a difference or not. I tried running more, and I tried running less, and now I want to try running weighted-down and sprinting on trails with hills. If anything, it’s still good training and like you said it will probably improve me aesthetically.
If it doesn’t make a difference, or I only improve to something like 23:50, then I will throw my hands up in frustration and be done with all this nonsense and just be content with running a damn 24-minute 5k, and so be it. I just can’t bring myself to run that much more than I already do for the sake of having a better than “good” 5k time. I only have so many days, and so much time on those days to train. You and I seem to be on the same page in terms of being well-rounded in our approach to training.
I’ll post my time when I complete the race. I also try and summarize how much running I did leading up to it.
[quote]JFG wrote:
I also went from a 30 minutes to under 20 minutes on the 5K.
But, as mentioned above, you need the mileage. You also need a program. It’s not just about running the same distance all the time.
I gave up going sub 15 because my legs got way smaller. That’s the other side of adaptability Mike S was saying.[/quote]
Sub 30 min to sub 15 minute 5k? lol you’re full of it.
[/quote]
Why? Did I say I wanted to do this overnight?
Did I say I did it? Considering the WR is around 12:35, the would make me an elite athlete, which I am not.
The OP wanted to know what it would take to break the 24 minute mark. I know how he feels, because I was stuck at 23 until I went on a program and started running 5 times a week.
But, I would also be very curious how he fares with HIS program. If it works, Ill give it a try, if I decide to run again.
And, I am not quite sure why your “spidey senses” were tingling since I never claimed to have accomplished that…
[quote]JFG wrote:
I also went from a 30 minutes to under 20 minutes on the 5K.
But, as mentioned above, you need the mileage. You also need a program. It’s not just about running the same distance all the time.
I gave up going sub 15 because my legs got way smaller. That’s the other side of adaptability Mike S was saying.[/quote]
Sub 30 min to sub 15 minute 5k? lol you’re full of it.
[/quote]
Why? Did I say I wanted to do this overnight?
Did I say I did it? Considering the WR is around 12:35, the would make me an elite athlete, which I am not.
The OP wanted to know what it would take to break the 24 minute mark. I know how he feels, because I was stuck at 23 until I went on a program and started running 5 times a week.
But, I would also be very curious how he fares with HIS program. If it works, Ill give it a try, if I decide to run again.
And, I am not quite sure why your “spidey senses” were tingling since I never claimed to have accomplished that…[/quote]
My point is you never could accomplish a sub 15min 5k. Your statement was akin to saying I hit 135 raw bench, but I shut it down before I hit 500 raw.
He didn’t say he was doing a sub 15 5k, he was saying he was trying for it. JC troll, you took your shot, whiffed terribly in the reading comprehension and instead of just saying my bad and or walking way you got to keep mis-reading that same sentence fragment over and over again.
Alpha-Mike: What you need to do is figure out which energy systems you’re using primarily in a 5k race and then train that system(s) as efficiently as possible given your time constraints. In the same way that we all lift weights with different weights/rep ranges to target different fiber types, we can do the same thing when running, swimming, cycling etc…
Here’s the basic way you can divvy up running speeds into training zones. Keep in mind that I’m ballparking your figures based on an assumed Threshold pace of 7.5MPH. I’m probably off a bit.
Active recovery < 4.2MPH
Endurance 4.2-5.7
Tempo 5.7-6.8MPH
Threshold 6.8-7.9MPH
VO2max 7.9-9MPH
Anaerobic Work Capacity 9-11.3MPH
Neuromuscular 11.3-full Sprints
In a 24 minute race, you’re primary energy systems used are Threshold and VO2max. To target VO2max, figure out what your MAS (maximal aerobic speed) is. This is easy in concept, but will require you to do a max effort test anywhere from 1 to 1.5 miles in length. Do the test and then figure out what your average pace was during the run.
Right now in your 5k races you’re running just under an 8 minute mile which is 7.6 MPH, so you know you’re MAS will be a bit higher than that. Then you can create workouts that target that running speed to accumulate as much time in that zone as possible. The great news is that this type of training will also keep or make you very lean as it’s very similar to sprint training intervals with a slower pace.
5 x 15 sec at 100% MAS with 15 sec active recovery
5 x 15 sec at 110% MAS with 15 sec active recovery
10 x 15 sec at 120% MAS with 15 sec active recovery
5 x 15 sec at 110% MAS with 15 sec active recovery
5 x 15 sec at 100% MAS with 15 sec active recovery
This workout will give you 7.5 minutes at or above MAS pace. As with weight training, you can either up the intensity and/or volume from workout to workout or week to week. I’d start with doing the above workout 2-3 times per week for 2 weeks and then progress with more volume or speed.
My last post was on 6/18, the day I started feeling sick and stopped training.
Today is 6/30 and I’m about 90% recovered from one of the nastiest viruses I’ve ever had. Totally laid up, day after day with high fevers, runny nose, barking cough, raw throat, and no appetite what so ever.
Today was the first day of any real activity. I rode my bike this morning (20 minutes) walked about a mile on lunch break, and will be riding my bike home again tonight from the train station. Tomorrow, I’m going to try a light workout in the evening. Needless to say, I lost about 12 days and 8 pounds because of this virus. My race is on 7/27, which gives me roughly 4 weeks to prepare with the regiment I had previously mentioned. So, my results may be a little skewed on account of the time I missed training as well as because of how sick I got and having to be on the mend the first couple of days to get back into the groove.
Hello. If I understand right you want to improve your 5k time to under 24 minutes. Here’s a few suggestions that will work. I guarantee it. First, train with weights in the off season. There’s a million routines, but I might suggest your hard day be 4-5 sets of about 12 reps then take a short rest break )30-45 seconds) then load the bar with more weight and do 4 reps but leaving the ability to do one more, but don’t do it. You leave one in the tank so to speak.
Now for the running part. First I would increase your mileage base. You don’t need to go crazy but put in at least one longer day a week (5-6 miles).
As for the speed part, you’ll need to do some type of interval training. Specificity of exercise is important. This means if you want to run faster you need to run faster. Here’s a story I use when I’m teaching that illustrates specificity.
Roger Bannister is the first person to break the 4 minute mile. If you follow the Specificity principle you might say he needs to run a lot of mile intervals as fast as possible in order to break the 4 minute mile. That would be pretty specific. But he needed to run faster than the 4 minute mile. Here’s what he did. Roger ran 20 400 yard intervals at a sub 4 minute pace. Each 400 yard interval was less than a minute.
You can run 400 yards a lot faster than you can fun a mile. So he specifically trained at that sub-four minute pace. This is what you need to do once a week. I recommend starting about 8-10 weeks before the race and run 800-1000 yards at a faster pace than you normally would in a race, but don’t kill yourself. That will come later. Each week run shorter distances faster until the week before the race you’re running 200-400 yards sprits. Maybe 10 to 12 of them with about 1 minute rest in between. The longer the interval the longer the rest period. The week of the race you train very little. This is where everyone goes wrong.
Everyone thinks they have to train that week or they’ll somehow become deconditioned. You’ll be more rested. Train on Monday and Tuesday moderate to light, take TH and Fr off. Warm up for a real easy mile before the race and you’ll break 24 minutes. I guarantee it.
Intervals are great IMO I would run a mile as fast as I could then run 1/4 runs at a pace faster then my mile pace. This was years ago but I Brought my time down from the 24’s to 19:42. That and I did some distance running about once a week 5-7 miles
The long run day is important and that’s where I see a lot of big interval runners make that mistake. I agree that 5&6 miles are plenty and I go easy so I don’t get overtaxed on it and wreck my recovery.