[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]
But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.
Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.
This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.[/quote]
i was agreeing with u dumbass[/quote]
No you weren’t I’m saying Kos can outwrestle George IF he does something more Sonnen esque.[/quote]
Hypothetically…a big IF. Even Sonnen wouldn’t be able to pull that off if he faced someone with equal to better wrestling than himself…which was the issue Kos faced with GSP.
[/quote]
He did with Nate.[/quote]
That makes the assumption that Nate was better wrestler than Sonnen. Obviously he wasn’t…and like Koscheck,most likely didn’t follow plan by their coaches.
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]
But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.
Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.
This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.[/quote]
i was agreeing with u dumbass[/quote]
No you weren’t I’m saying Kos can outwrestle George IF he does something more Sonnen esque.[/quote]
Hypothetically…a big IF. Even Sonnen wouldn’t be able to pull that off if he faced someone with equal to better wrestling than himself…which was the issue Kos faced with GSP.
[/quote]
He did with Nate.[/quote]
You really believe that Nate’s wrestling is on par with Sonnen’s? What evidence do you have to support that line of thinking? Nate got easily taken down and held there by Sonnen in their fight and got pretty much outwrestled by Okami (who Sonnen had helped work on his wrestling). Nate is pretty well rounded, but his wrestling is no where near Sonnen’s.
GSP on the other hand has not been outwrestled since he won the belt. He has in fact outwrestled everyone who he has faced, including the grapplers (Hughes, Serra, Fitch, Penn, and Kos) and been able to takedown everyone who he has faced (with the exception of Kos this time, although he definitely got the better of the wrestling match) at will.
Whether you want to accept it or not, GSP is the most effective wrestler in all of MMA right now. Might Kos beat him in a pure wrestling match under wrestling rules? Yeah, possibly. But as far as MMA wrestling goes, he was at a disadvantage.
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]
But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.
Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.
This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.[/quote]
i was agreeing with u dumbass[/quote]
No you weren’t I’m saying Kos can outwrestle George IF he does something more Sonnen esque.[/quote]
Hypothetically…a big IF. Even Sonnen wouldn’t be able to pull that off if he faced someone with equal to better wrestling than himself…which was the issue Kos faced with GSP.
[/quote]
He did with Nate.[/quote]
You really believe that Nate’s wrestling is on par with Sonnen’s? What evidence do you have to support that line of thinking? Nate got easily taken down and held there by Sonnen in their fight and got pretty much outwrestled by Okami (who Sonnen had helped work on his wrestling). Nate is pretty well rounded, but his wrestling is no where near Sonnen’s.
GSP on the other hand has not been outwrestled since he won the belt. He has in fact outwrestled everyone who he has faced, including the grapplers (Hughes, Serra, Fitch, Penn, and Kos) and been able to takedown everyone who he has faced (with the exception of Kos this time, although he definitely got the better of the wrestling match) at will.
Whether you want to accept it or not, GSP is the most effective wrestler in all of MMA right now. Might Kos beat him in a pure wrestling match under wrestling rules? Yeah, possibly. But as far as MMA wrestling goes, he was at a disadvantage. [/quote]
Not to mention GSP trains with the Canadian Oly Wrestling team and was invited to be an alternate @ the games. Whether this means his wrestling transfers over well to MMA wrestling, it still says somthing.
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]
But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.
Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.
This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.[/quote]
i was agreeing with u dumbass[/quote]
No you weren’t I’m saying Kos can outwrestle George IF he does something more Sonnen esque.[/quote]
Hypothetically…a big IF. Even Sonnen wouldn’t be able to pull that off if he faced someone with equal to better wrestling than himself…which was the issue Kos faced with GSP.
[/quote]
He did with Nate.[/quote]
You really believe that Nate’s wrestling is on par with Sonnen’s? What evidence do you have to support that line of thinking? Nate got easily taken down and held there by Sonnen in their fight and got pretty much outwrestled by Okami (who Sonnen had helped work on his wrestling). Nate is pretty well rounded, but his wrestling is no where near Sonnen’s.
GSP on the other hand has not been outwrestled since he won the belt. He has in fact outwrestled everyone who he has faced, including the grapplers (Hughes, Serra, Fitch, Penn, and Kos) and been able to takedown everyone who he has faced (with the exception of Kos this time, although he definitely got the better of the wrestling match) at will.
Whether you want to accept it or not, GSP is the most effective wrestler in all of MMA right now. Might Kos beat him in a pure wrestling match under wrestling rules? Yeah, possibly. But as far as MMA wrestling goes, he was at a disadvantage. [/quote]
Not to mention GSP trains with the Canadian Oly Wrestling team and was invited to be an alternate @ the games. Whether this means his wrestling transfers over well to MMA wrestling, it still says somthing.
GSP wrestling > Kosh wrestling bar none[/quote]
The thing is that GSP has never competed in Folkstyle wrestling, so we really don’t know how he would do. Neither he nor Kos ever competed internationally, so we’re equally clueless as to how either one would fair. But, Kos did win a National title in Folkstyle wrestling, so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he might beat GSP under those rules.
The thing is though that those rules are nothing like MMA rules, and since we’re talking about an MMA context here, the only thing that really matters is how effective each man is within that context. To date, GSP has been the far more effective MMA wrestler (for instance he was able to take Alves down at will, even with a pulled groin for the last 2 rounds of their fight, whereas Kos was far, far less successful).
Therefore, GSP’s MMA wrestling > Kos’ MMA wrestling
This is just dumb, he took GSP down and held him there. Koscheck’s best chance was WRESTLING. [/quote]
The first fight? That was at the end of round one, and Georges tied him up perfectly. He did the same when Alves got on top. GSP may not threaten off his back, but his guard is a great defensive tool. At the same time, Georges take down defense ranks up there in the division, as does his clinch work (he hung in just fine with Fitch). He wasn’t going to have much success either way, but until Saturday it was generally believed that GSPs striking was weaker than his grappling and that he resorted to taking down good strikers for fear of the KO.
I think Kos planned correctly, he just got outclassed.
This is just dumb, he took GSP down and held him there. Koscheck’s best chance was WRESTLING. [/quote]
The first fight? That was at the end of round one, and Georges tied him up perfectly. He did the same when Alves got on top. GSP may not threaten off his back, but his guard is a great defensive tool. At the same time, Georges take down defense ranks up there in the division, as does his clinch work (he hung in just fine with Fitch). He wasn’t going to have much success either way, but until Saturday it was generally believed that GSPs striking was weaker than his grappling and that he resorted to taking down good strikers for fear of the KO.
I think Kos planned correctly, he just got outclassed.[/quote]
Nah son the second fight, Kos established the takedown is what I should gave said.
Does anyone else think George can’t hang at MW. Maybe he can beat Anderson, but I see Maia, Okami, and others giving him trouble. That division is far more well rounded than WW imo. Maia could pull guard, Okami would be trouble everywhere, Sonnen could outwrestle George and George ain’t knocking him out.
This is just dumb, he took GSP down and held him there. Koscheck’s best chance was WRESTLING. [/quote]
The first fight? That was at the end of round one, and Georges tied him up perfectly. He did the same when Alves got on top. GSP may not threaten off his back, but his guard is a great defensive tool. At the same time, Georges take down defense ranks up there in the division, as does his clinch work (he hung in just fine with Fitch). He wasn’t going to have much success either way, but until Saturday it was generally believed that GSPs striking was weaker than his grappling and that he resorted to taking down good strikers for fear of the KO.
I think Kos planned correctly, he just got outclassed.[/quote]
And it’s dumb to think he planned correctly, Javier Mendez said Kos did NOTHING they worked on.
Not to mention GSP trains with the Canadian Oly Wrestling team and was invited to be an alternate @ the games. Whether this means his wrestling transfers over well to MMA wrestling, it still says somthing.
[/quote]
This is just dumb, he took GSP down and held him there. Koscheck’s best chance was WRESTLING. [/quote]
The first fight? That was at the end of round one, and Georges tied him up perfectly. He did the same when Alves got on top. GSP may not threaten off his back, but his guard is a great defensive tool. At the same time, Georges take down defense ranks up there in the division, as does his clinch work (he hung in just fine with Fitch). He wasn’t going to have much success either way, but until Saturday it was generally believed that GSPs striking was weaker than his grappling and that he resorted to taking down good strikers for fear of the KO.
I think Kos planned correctly, he just got outclassed.[/quote]
Nah son the second fight, Kos established the takedown is what I should gave said.
Does anyone else think George can’t hang at MW. Maybe he can beat Anderson, but I see Maia, Okami, and others giving him trouble. That division is far more well rounded than WW imo. Maia could pull guard, Okami would be trouble everywhere, Sonnen could outwrestle George and George ain’t knocking him out.[/quote]
Yeah, I think he should stay at WW. I really don’t think that he would match up all that well at MW. Very seldom does a fighter come along who can move up and fight above his natural fighting weight and still be successful/dominant. I know George is always looking to challenge himself and if he does move up it’ll probably be exciting, but I don’t think it’s the best choice for him career wise.
Not to mention GSP trains with the Canadian Oly Wrestling team and was invited to be an alternate @ the games. Whether this means his wrestling transfers over well to MMA wrestling, it still says somthing.
[/quote]
Canadian Olympic wrestling?
About as good as the Samoan hockey team.[/quote]
^^^ This…
That should not be used as a defense for his wrestling ability. Hes a national hero and his popularity would bring the press and more of the public to the sport. I can bet if gsp was on the wrestling team at the Olympics I wouldn’t have to stay up until 3-4am to watch the matches sense that’s when they decide to broadcast them.
Hes a great mma wrestler and internationally he would wrestle freestyle(not folk?!? do they even wrestle folk in canada?) but there is no doubt in my mind that he would get totally man handled maybe winning a couple matches at most but getting eliminated fairly quick. If you think otherwise then I am speechless… canadian wrestling team… /facepalm.
GSP does train free style with a very very good canadian club i wouldn’t say its the national team.
That is urban legend… As far as i know chaimburg is/ was associated with the same candian club
And does some SC work for the national team as well he was a team member in his youth.
Canada does not have the depth that the states has for college or folk style wrestling
It is mostly club based having played up there a few times they are good… Just not gold medal good
There greco and freestyle teams are ok Canada They have allot of euro and other immigrants that bring talent
Kos did some freestyle he trained at the OTC for how long I don’t know but he has been out there a few times
GSP at MW is not a good idea he would give up size and reach as well as fighting as sent said more well rounded field
Sonnen or Okami could give him fits some of the higher BJJ players would makes things boring but difficult too
As for Silva is he even interested in such a fight?
Yes GSP can take him down but Silva striking far far more accurate then anyone Georges has fought
Want a journeymen GSP fight throw him alan belcher to start.
As for GSP having the best MMa wrestling i would say it’s the most successful recently…
Sonnet has been pretty damn effective his inability to defend subs/bad petite holds him back and makes him look bad
matt Linland before he languished into obscurity used his wrestling very very well
Watch his fight with rampage
Lindlands problem was being unmarketable and not being active when younger.
I’d say Lindland used wrestling more then Hendo cause hen do figured out soe striking
It easy to nut hug GSP he looks like an athlete
He is classy his training footage " looks cool"
and is mostly dominant
This thread took an interesting turn. Some of my thoughts in no particular order:
1-We shouldn’t be comparing GSP to internationally ranked wrestlers, what’s the point? Could Tiger Woods play basketball? Could Mike Tyson get into mma? Could Michael Jordan play baseball…oh wait that’s right he tried and didn’t do very well. Anyway, MMA is not wrestling anymore than it is boxing. It is an individual combat port that has components of many others.
2-Kos did have a game plan but was unable to follow it. As all of you know game plans are only as good as your ability to perform said plan. GSP took Kos off his game plan from round 1 and never looked back.
3- I noticed that the UFC listed (on screen) GSP’s height as 5’ 11". I have never seen GSP’s height listed at anything but 5’ 10". This could easily be a mistake - But I wondered if this was Dana’s way of preping everyone with a GSP move to middleweight. If he does move up to middleweight he will have a difficult road ahead of him. Some of you already listed a few fighters that could give him nightmares, but there are others, many others. He would be smart to stay at welter and continue to improve. Yes, I know no one can beat him now, but as even he would tell you there is always room for improvement.
4- Some have been complaining that GSP has not had a stoppage in his past three title defenses. And some fans have been pretty hard on him for this. But I enjoyed last weeks fight very much as it was a technical battle (for GSP). And I thought brilliantly planned and executed. How many other martial artists have we seen that has used a jab so effectively? Also, prior to that fight he was only being recognized as a grappler. Now we see a fighter who can truly do it all. I think he proved a lot to the fight fans. Not just in winning but how he won.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
This thread took an interesting turn. Some of my thoughts in no particular order:
1-We shouldn’t be comparing GSP to internationally ranked wrestlers, what’s the point? Could Tiger Woods play basketball? Could Mike Tyson get into mma? Could Michael Jordan play baseball…oh wait that’s right he tried and didn’t do very well. Anyway, MMA is not wrestling anymore than it is boxing. It is an individual combat port that has components of many others.
2-Kos did have a game plan but was unable to follow it. As all of you know game plans are only as good as your ability to perform said plan. GSP took Kos off his game plan from round 1 and never looked back.
3- I noticed that the UFC listed (on screen) GSP’s height as 5’ 11". I have never seen GSP’s height listed at anything but 5’ 10". This could easily be a mistake - But I wondered if this was Dana’s way of preping everyone with a GSP move to middleweight. If he does move up to middleweight he will have a difficult road ahead of him. Some of you already listed a few fighters that could give him nightmares, but there are others, many others. He would be smart to stay at welter and continue to improve. Yes, I know no one can beat him now, but as even he would tell you there is always room for improvement.
4- Some have been complaining that GSP has not had a stoppage in his past three title defenses. And some fans have been pretty hard on him for this. But I enjoyed last weeks fight very much as it was a technical battle (for GSP). And I thought brilliantly planned and executed. How many other martial artists have we seen that has used a jab so effectively? Also, prior to that fight he was only being recognized as a grappler. Now we see a fighter who can truly do it all. I think he proved a lot to the fight fans. Not just in winning but how he won.
[/quote]
All fights where the jab was used well.
Kenny Florian vs Gomi
BJ Penn Sherk
Buentello Sidelnikhov
Diaz bros vs everyone
Spencer Fisher sometimes
JDS against Nelson, though he mixed it up
Bisping against Leben
Okami vs Linhares and Nate
Lil Nog vs Luiz Arthur Cane
Kampman vs. Thiago
[quote]ZEB wrote:
This thread took an interesting turn. Some of my thoughts in no particular order:
1-We shouldn’t be comparing GSP to internationally ranked wrestlers, what’s the point? Could Tiger Woods play basketball? Could Mike Tyson get into mma? Could Michael Jordan play baseball…oh wait that’s right he tried and didn’t do very well. Anyway, MMA is not wrestling anymore than it is boxing. It is an individual combat port that has components of many others.
2-Kos did have a game plan but was unable to follow it. As all of you know game plans are only as good as your ability to perform said plan. GSP took Kos off his game plan from round 1 and never looked back.
3- I noticed that the UFC listed (on screen) GSP’s height as 5’ 11". I have never seen GSP’s height listed at anything but 5’ 10". This could easily be a mistake - But I wondered if this was Dana’s way of preping everyone with a GSP move to middleweight. If he does move up to middleweight he will have a difficult road ahead of him. Some of you already listed a few fighters that could give him nightmares, but there are others, many others. He would be smart to stay at welter and continue to improve. Yes, I know no one can beat him now, but as even he would tell you there is always room for improvement.
4- Some have been complaining that GSP has not had a stoppage in his past three title defenses. And some fans have been pretty hard on him for this. But I enjoyed last weeks fight very much as it was a technical battle (for GSP). And I thought brilliantly planned and executed. How many other martial artists have we seen that has used a jab so effectively? Also, prior to that fight he was only being recognized as a grappler. Now we see a fighter who can truly do it all. I think he proved a lot to the fight fans. Not just in winning but how he won.
[/quote]
All fights where the jab was used well.
Kenny Florian vs Gomi
BJ Penn Sherk
Buentello Sidelnikhov
Diaz bros vs everyone
Spencer Fisher sometimes
JDS against Nelson, though he mixed it up
Bisping against Leben
Okami vs Linhares and Nate
Lil Nog vs Luiz Arthur Cane
Kampman vs. Thiago
Not to mention GSP trains with the Canadian Oly Wrestling team and was invited to be an alternate @ the games. Whether this means his wrestling transfers over well to MMA wrestling, it still says somthing.
[/quote]
Canadian Olympic wrestling?
About as good as the Samoan hockey team.[/quote]
^^^ This…
That should not be used as a defense for his wrestling ability. Hes a national hero and his popularity would bring the press and more of the public to the sport. I can bet if gsp was on the wrestling team at the Olympics I wouldn’t have to stay up until 3-4am to watch the matches sense that’s when they decide to broadcast them.
Hes a great mma wrestler and internationally he would wrestle freestyle(not folk?!? do they even wrestle folk in canada?) but there is no doubt in my mind that he would get totally man handled maybe winning a couple matches at most but getting eliminated fairly quick. If you think otherwise then I am speechless… canadian wrestling team… /facepalm.
[/quote]
Yah your right…“those guys must suck up in that there canada”. (face palm for your ignorance)
GSP does not train like most mixed martial artists do…as in go to a MMA gym and learn collectivley how to become good at all aspects. He hires the best of the best. Muay thai coach, boxing coach, ju jitsu instructer and wait for it…best group of wrestlers to train with. He takes all aspects of the game and puts them together in his own specialized way. Which has in turn bread a champion. Do you really think he couldnt afford to bring in someone better if the guys up there sub-par to his needs? Hes one of the highest paid mixed martial artists in the world and also the UFC poster boy. Shit…if he wanted the US olympic team DW would spend the money to send those guys up north once a week for wrestling practice.
Not to mention GSP trains with the Canadian Oly Wrestling team and was invited to be an alternate @ the games. Whether this means his wrestling transfers over well to MMA wrestling, it still says somthing.
[/quote]
Canadian Olympic wrestling?
About as good as the Samoan hockey team.[/quote]
^^^ This…
That should not be used as a defense for his wrestling ability. Hes a national hero and his popularity would bring the press and more of the public to the sport. I can bet if gsp was on the wrestling team at the Olympics I wouldn’t have to stay up until 3-4am to watch the matches sense that’s when they decide to broadcast them.
Hes a great mma wrestler and internationally he would wrestle freestyle(not folk?!? do they even wrestle folk in canada?) but there is no doubt in my mind that he would get totally man handled maybe winning a couple matches at most but getting eliminated fairly quick. If you think otherwise then I am speechless… canadian wrestling team… /facepalm.
[/quote]
Yah your right…“those guys must suck up in that there canada”. (face palm for your ignorance)
GSP does not train like most mixed martial artists do…as in go to a MMA gym and learn collectivley how to become good at all aspects. He hires the best of the best. Muay thai coach, boxing coach, ju jitsu instructer and wait for it…best group of wrestlers to train with. He takes all aspects of the game and puts them together in his own specialized way. Which has in turn bread a champion. Do you really think he couldnt afford to bring in someone better if the guys up there sub-par to his needs? Hes one of the highest paid mixed martial artists in the world and also the UFC poster boy. Shit…if he wanted the US olympic team DW would spend the money to send those guys up north once a week for wrestling practice. [/quote]
WHAAA?!? you train all aspects of the sport with the best possible people you can find… no… fucking… way… GSP has gone to colorado springs to train etc… as well… he can train with whoever he wants you’re right… as long as he has the money… and doesn’t sucking terribly… Your post was implying(or the way I took it) that hes such an amazing wrestler that he was invited to be an alternate on the Canadian team. Its the Canadian team… they have only won 2 gold medals in the Olympics in the past 100 years. Its the fact that hes an icon and not completely retarded that got him the “spot.” He would bring a lot of attention to the sport which it is in dire need of.
So yes those guys “suck” up in Canada… pardon your ignorance. In international competition GSP would get held down and raped literally. But as zeb stated… it doesn’t matter how he’d do in international competition. The point is… GSP is great at mma wrestling… the way you tried to defend his mma wrestling imo is completely retarded(ie Canadian wrestling team).
And for the record… I’m not a fan of the American team… I am a fan of the Iranian and Swedish team. Seemed like thats what you were implying by “those guys must suck up in that there canada”
too lazy to check if anything is wrong etc… because I don’t really feel like talking about this anymore… etc… so forgive any errors.
/end hijack
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
I guess the briotards are back after all
[/quote]
ouch! tucks dick and runs to hide in the closet.[/quote]
“fixed”
Self proclaimed thread hijacker GTFO. You make no sense.[/quote]
I added to the hijacking… and he was calling you the brotard… I just actually responded to it as i’m doing now humph… pretty much meaning i’m no better.