St. Pierre vs. Koscheck

Training
61

[quote]OneMoreRep wrote:
The fight only had a couple of lulls e.g. one time against the cage when herb dean separated them for inaction. For the most part I found it exciting and the fans did too. You could hear when GSP put together some combination’s together they would get loud. If he had put together a few more of those up-tempo periods I think he might have gotten the tko.

Regardless, that “jab a thon” was not boring and in fact with it he helped as Rogan said take mma another step forward. [/quote]
you realize the fight was in Montreal

62

Yes…but they were noticeably louder when he started to put together some combinations and press the action and I think he could have used just a few more of those periods.

63

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.

Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.

[quote]
Personally, I know I’m about to fight a wrestler. I’m not going to make takedown and G&P my gameplan, because I know he’s better at it than I am. Maybe if Kos had a little humility (or a coach willing to tell him how it is) he’d have tried to keep this fight where he’s stronger instead of trying to prove something.[/quote]

I’m all for taking the fight to where you have the best chances of winning/your opponent’s weaknesses/your strengths. But, if your opponent is just plain better than you at every aspect of the game (including where you are best), then you might have to take a different approach.

Since losing to Matt Hughes via a sweet armbar, the only weakness that GSP has displayed (and the cause of his only loss since gaining the belt) is that he can be KO’d/TKO’d. Kos probably figured that this fact, combined with his recent success with landing his right hand and KO’ing people represented his best chance of taking GSP’s belt.[/quote]

agreed. when you are wearing 4 ounce gloves…just about any decent athlete who has basic striking training has a “punchers chance”

64

Didn’t get a chance to watch the fights live but just watched the replay on-line. Once GSP becomes more comfortable throwing he’ll be stringting together combos fluidly. He looked kinda stiff in this one but his rhythym and timing will definitely improve and he’ll be getting the ko’s everyone’s been bitching about. Also, you gotta think at this point he moves up to 185. There is absolutely no one at welter who can fuck with him.

65

He has Jake Shields in April. Assuming he wins that then it might be time to move up. IF he does move up I hope he doesn’t fight Silva right away. You need some time to get acclimated to the weight. Remember, Silva’s first fight at 205 was against James Irvin.

66

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Didn’t get a chance to watch the fights live but just watched the replay on-line. Once GSP becomes more comfortable throwing he’ll be stringting together combos fluidly. He looked kinda stiff in this one but his rhythym and timing will definitely improve and he’ll be getting the ko’s everyone’s been bitching about. Also, you gotta think at this point he moves up to 185. There is absolutely no one at welter who can fuck with him.[/quote]

The GSP we saw saturday is about as good as it gets. Its not that he cant put together combos by now. He just knows how to fight smart. He knew that Kosh’s go-to is to grab a leg and fight for ground position. GSP stayed on the outside and moved in with very quick and long stiff jabs. He would have been stupid to stay in the pocket, looping punches and therefore giving Kosh a chance to catch him with somthing. The game plan worked perfectly. He scored 3 out of 5 take downs. Hit josh with some great jabs, leg kicks and didnt give him a chance to do anything.

Furthermore. Did you miss his “superman jab into an outside leg kick.”? He caught Kosh with that like 5 times. That to me is brilliant. Its not that he cant put together strikes, its that hes smart enough to follow a game plan.

67

I don’t get it. If everyone wants finishes, why not go back to the way UFC used to be with no time limits. Was ridiculous. And is there really anyone who thinks if this fight went on another 15 minutes at most GSP wouldn’t have finished him? They put in time limits for a reason, and winning by decision is JUST as legitimate as winning by TKO, Submission, or anything else.

GSP fights under a set of rules that he wins by. Enough said.

This is like the arguments presented in who would win in a street fight. I’d probably beat GSP in a street fight cause I have a gun. Cause that’s totally relevant.

68

[quote]OneMoreRep wrote:
He has Jake Shields in April. Assuming he wins that then it might be time to move up. IF he does move up I hope he doesn’t fight Silva right away. You need some time to get acclimated to the weight. Remember, Silva’s first fight at 205 was against James Irvin. [/quote]
There are still challenged at WW imo. Ricky Story has been looking good, Condit, Fitch and imo DHK. DHK is my dark horse in the division. Supposedly he goes back and forth with Okami grappling and there is word that he tooled Kampman in training.

69

[quote]OneMoreRep wrote:
He has Jake Shields in April. Assuming he wins that then it might be time to move up. IF he does move up I hope he doesn’t fight Silva right away. You need some time to get acclimated to the weight. Remember, Silva’s first fight at 205 was against James Irvin. [/quote]

Its pretty much well known that moving up a weightclass seems to be his plan. Retire the belt @ 170…move up to 185 and win the belt. Therefore holding a belt in 2 weight classes. He has been quoted saying that once he makes the jump, he will stay there permanant.

He cant fight Silva right off the bat because Dana already has Shields lined up for 135 and Silva is fighting Rua. To make it fair, he will probably battle thru some of the contenders and gate keepers of the class before meeting silva.

70

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.

Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.

[quote]
Personally, I know I’m about to fight a wrestler. I’m not going to make takedown and G&P my gameplan, because I know he’s better at it than I am. Maybe if Kos had a little humility (or a coach willing to tell him how it is) he’d have tried to keep this fight where he’s stronger instead of trying to prove something.[/quote]

I’m all for taking the fight to where you have the best chances of winning/your opponent’s weaknesses/your strengths. But, if your opponent is just plain better than you at every aspect of the game (including where you are best), then you might have to take a different approach.

Since losing to Matt Hughes via a sweet armbar, the only weakness that GSP has displayed (and the cause of his only loss since gaining the belt) is that he can be KO’d/TKO’d. Kos probably figured that this fact, combined with his recent success with landing his right hand and KO’ing people represented his best chance of taking GSP’s belt.[/quote]
This is just dumb, he took GSP down and held him there. Koscheck’s best chance was WRESTLING.

71

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]OneMoreRep wrote:
He has Jake Shields in April. Assuming he wins that then it might be time to move up. IF he does move up I hope he doesn’t fight Silva right away. You need some time to get acclimated to the weight. Remember, Silva’s first fight at 205 was against James Irvin. [/quote]
There are still challenged at WW imo. Ricky Story has been looking good, Condit, Fitch and imo DHK. DHK is my dark horse in the division. Supposedly he goes back and forth with Okami grappling and there is word that he tooled Kampman in training.[/quote]

DHK(I’m assuming Dong Hyun Kim here) has a big fight against Nate Diaz so we’ll learn a little more from that. I do expect Fitch to take down/grind down and wear down penn but he still has to go out and do it. Condit is in his camp so I don’t know how they feel about that (he also has a fight against chris lytle at 127), and though he is on a tear Story needs to face some stiffer competition before a title shot.

SO I could see GSP fighting one of those guys or if none of them separate themselves, moving up.

72

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.

Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.

[quote]
Personally, I know I’m about to fight a wrestler. I’m not going to make takedown and G&P my gameplan, because I know he’s better at it than I am. Maybe if Kos had a little humility (or a coach willing to tell him how it is) he’d have tried to keep this fight where he’s stronger instead of trying to prove something.[/quote]

I’m all for taking the fight to where you have the best chances of winning/your opponent’s weaknesses/your strengths. But, if your opponent is just plain better than you at every aspect of the game (including where you are best), then you might have to take a different approach.

Since losing to Matt Hughes via a sweet armbar, the only weakness that GSP has displayed (and the cause of his only loss since gaining the belt) is that he can be KO’d/TKO’d. Kos probably figured that this fact, combined with his recent success with landing his right hand and KO’ing people represented his best chance of taking GSP’s belt.[/quote]
This is just dumb, he took GSP down and held him there. Koscheck’s best chance was WRESTLING. [/quote]

Kos was looking for a leg the whole time. He couldnt get shit because he was getting peppered with jabs from outside the pocket with a closed up eyeball. The one time he got a takedown and dominant postition on GSP (end of first round) he lasted like a minute. Whenever GSP took him down he couldnt do shit. He couldnt pass guard, he couldnt sweep, all he could do was get back to his feet. His wrestling was shit against GSP…even tho this was his game plan.

On the feet his punches were wild, looping and far too outside to be effective. He made contact 30 times. GSP like 160 or somthing. Kosh didnt want to be on his feet with a superior striker, he wanted to be on the ground using whats always been his strength…wrestling. Problem being…GSP = better jitz, better wrestling and better standup. Kosh had no chance after the first round.

This fight was so hyped up, but in the end anyone who thought Kosh had a chance is a dreamer.

73

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.

Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.

This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.

74

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.

Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.

This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.[/quote]

i was agreeing with u dumbass

75

He had a plan he just couldnt follow thru

76

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.

Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.

This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.[/quote]

i was agreeing with u dumbass[/quote]
No you weren’t I’m saying Kos can outwrestle George IF he does something more Sonnen esque.

77

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.

Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.

This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.[/quote]

i was agreeing with u dumbass[/quote]
No you weren’t I’m saying Kos can outwrestle George IF he does something more Sonnen esque.[/quote]

Hypothetically…a big IF. Even Sonnen wouldn’t be able to pull that off if he faced someone with equal to better wrestling than himself…which was the issue Kos faced with GSP.

78

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Didn’t get a chance to watch the fights live but just watched the replay on-line. Once GSP becomes more comfortable throwing he’ll be stringting together combos fluidly. He looked kinda stiff in this one but his rhythym and timing will definitely improve and he’ll be getting the ko’s everyone’s been bitching about. Also, you gotta think at this point he moves up to 185. There is absolutely no one at welter who can fuck with him.[/quote]

The GSP we saw saturday is about as good as it gets. Its not that he cant put together combos by now. He just knows how to fight smart. He knew that Kosh’s go-to is to grab a leg and fight for ground position. GSP stayed on the outside and moved in with very quick and long stiff jabs. He would have been stupid to stay in the pocket, looping punches and therefore giving Kosh a chance to catch him with somthing. The game plan worked perfectly. He scored 3 out of 5 take downs. Hit josh with some great jabs, leg kicks and didnt give him a chance to do anything.

Furthermore. Did you miss his “superman jab into an outside leg kick.”? He caught Kosh with that like 5 times. That to me is brilliant. Its not that he cant put together strikes, its that hes smart enough to follow a game plan.[/quote]

You misinterpreted what I meant, or maybe I did a shitty job of explaining. There were several times that his jab stunned Koscheck, and if he was smoother on his feet he could’ve slid into a right cross + left hook and 3-pieced him for the ko/tko. He wasn’t comfortable enough with his hands to string something like that together. But, I fully believe he will be within the next year. It’s hard to say that “this is the best GSP we’re gonna see” when he gets at least a bit better from fight to fight.

79

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
And considering that GSP is a better stand-up fighter, a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

But realistically, it was still his best chance of winning. He was not going to beat GSP in a MMA wrestling match; GSP proved that in their first fight and again in this fight. He doesn’t have the set-up skills/timing necessary to really catch GSP off guard with his takedowns and even if he got it there, doesn’t have the skills to be able to gain a dominant position and either GnP his way to a TKO or submit GSP.

Really his only chance at victory in this fight was landing his big looping right hand on GSP’s chin. Unfortunately for him, GSP knew this and implemented a perfect game plan to nullify the chances of that happening.

This is bull too, look at Chael Sonnen he WILL take a punch to get a guy down. Look at his face in the Nate and Anderson fights. And GSP was just jabbing, Nate was throwing heat. I don’t know who planned Kos’s strategy but it was a stupid one. He can take George down and should have been doing exactly that.[/quote]

i was agreeing with u dumbass[/quote]
No you weren’t I’m saying Kos can outwrestle George IF he does something more Sonnen esque.[/quote]

Hypothetically…a big IF. Even Sonnen wouldn’t be able to pull that off if he faced someone with equal to better wrestling than himself…which was the issue Kos faced with GSP.
[/quote]
He did with Nate.

80