[quote]PGA200X wrote:
I havent squatted over 350lbs so the bar is just fine for me.[/quote]
exactly. my working sets aren’t near heavy enough to inflict too much pain. though i did use the manta ray a couple of times in high school and wasn’t big enough for it to fit comfortably, so i said f it.
I got the sting ray maybe 2 months back.
Now I look forward to my front squats. Previously I had tried the crossed wrist grip and the clean grip, really didnt like either. It was easier to do the weight with the clean grip, but was really straining my wrists. The crossed wrist grip was ok but I didnt feel that I could do as much weight.
Now with the sting ray, I dont even think about the weight.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
hoosierdaddy wrote:
Ok, I’m confused.
I’ve always been under the impression that larger traps help releive squat pain. As such I’ve trained my traps in various ways (power cleans, snatches, deadlifts, heavy shurgs). While Im going to assume that my traps aren’t as big as yours, I’m no scrawny bitch either. Having done extensive work on my traps I actually don’t feel any pain when squatting, even if its heavy.
Heavy for me, such as last night, was 415 for 5. I’m sure you squat much more. Was their a point at which you got to a certain weight and it started hurting or have you always had pain at your maximal squat weight?
Guy, everyone isn’t made the same. If you don’t feel any pain on your traps, great. My neck measures about 20" at my heaviest weight so I don’t know if you are my size or not. I feel pain and have for years which is why I use a pad on the bar. If you don’t…drop the pad.[/quote]
Your might not placing the bar on an ideal location. It should rest across your rear delts and traps. Not your traps alone. There is a perfect wedge there to place the bar. Also, it’s always uncomfortable, and it was really painfull for me at first but I got used to it. I always have a red streak running across my back after squatting.
When you get stronger, the bar is not more painfull, 700 feels the same as when your max was 300.
[quote]Jesse Snadden wrote:
Professor X wrote:
hoosierdaddy wrote:
Ok, I’m confused.
I’ve always been under the impression that larger traps help releive squat pain. As such I’ve trained my traps in various ways (power cleans, snatches, deadlifts, heavy shurgs). While Im going to assume that my traps aren’t as big as yours, I’m no scrawny bitch either. Having done extensive work on my traps I actually don’t feel any pain when squatting, even if its heavy.
Heavy for me, such as last night, was 415 for 5. I’m sure you squat much more. Was their a point at which you got to a certain weight and it started hurting or have you always had pain at your maximal squat weight?
Guy, everyone isn’t made the same. If you don’t feel any pain on your traps, great. My neck measures about 20" at my heaviest weight so I don’t know if you are my size or not. I feel pain and have for years which is why I use a pad on the bar. If you don’t…drop the pad.
Your might not placing the bar on an ideal location. It should rest across your rear delts and traps. Not your traps alone. There is a perfect wedge there to place the bar. Also, it’s always uncomfortable, and it was really painfull for me at first but I got used to it. I always have a red streak running across my back after squatting.
When you get stronger, the bar is not more painfull, 700 feels the same as when your max was 300.
[/quote]
I already wrote that I have large traps. When I use the bar on my back, it is not spread out across my rear delts equally. I wasn’t exaggerating that I have large traps.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Jesse Snadden wrote:
Professor X wrote:
hoosierdaddy wrote:
Ok, I’m confused.
I’ve always been under the impression that larger traps help releive squat pain. As such I’ve trained my traps in various ways (power cleans, snatches, deadlifts, heavy shurgs). While Im going to assume that my traps aren’t as big as yours, I’m no scrawny bitch either. Having done extensive work on my traps I actually don’t feel any pain when squatting, even if its heavy.
Heavy for me, such as last night, was 415 for 5. I’m sure you squat much more. Was their a point at which you got to a certain weight and it started hurting or have you always had pain at your maximal squat weight?
Guy, everyone isn’t made the same. If you don’t feel any pain on your traps, great. My neck measures about 20" at my heaviest weight so I don’t know if you are my size or not. I feel pain and have for years which is why I use a pad on the bar. If you don’t…drop the pad.
Your might not placing the bar on an ideal location. It should rest across your rear delts and traps. Not your traps alone. There is a perfect wedge there to place the bar. Also, it’s always uncomfortable, and it was really painfull for me at first but I got used to it. I always have a red streak running across my back after squatting.
When you get stronger, the bar is not more painfull, 700 feels the same as when your max was 300.
I already wrote that I have large traps. When I use the bar on my back, it is not spread out across my rear delts equally. I wasn’t exaggerating that I have large traps. [/quote]
They shouldn’t rest on them, but behind them. If you can’t do that, the problem isn’t large traps but rather under developped shoulders.
Even then, many olympic weightlifters carry the bar high and they have some of the thickest traps around.
Have you tried it without the pad for at least 6-8 months before giving up on it ? I’m sure you would get used to it and the pain would subside.
[quote]Jesse Snadden wrote:
They shouldn’t rest on them, but behind them. If you can’t do that, the problem isn’t large traps but rather under developped shoulders.
Even then, many olympic weightlifters carry the bar high and they have some of the thickest traps around.
Have you tried it without the pad for at least 6-8 months before giving up on it ? I’m sure you would get used to it and the pain would subside.[/quote]
My shoulders aren’t underdeveloped. Please explain to me your interest in why I use a pad and why I need to stop using one.
[quote]Colonel Dinque wrote:
The ad says “At Long Last, Squats Are Not A Pain In The Neck!”
"Q: How does it rest on your back?
A: It transfers the load to the traps exclusively and doesn’t involve the shoulder caps. It’s a simple load distribution principle where the load is spread over as much as 1600% more surface area than the raw bar. It’s like comparing a bed of nails to a single nail."
P.T. Barnum said “Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public.”
Any testimonials out there?[/quote]
I don’t use it as a replacement for the squat, but rather as a supplement. It is a nice twist on the ol’ squat, and it teaches you to remain upright in the squat. Sort of a poor man’s safety squat bar (although even if you have a safety squat bar they’re good to do every once in a while).
That said if you do them a lot, going back to regular squats is going to feel weird as hell. And like people have said before me, if you have decent sized traps going heavy with the manta ray is actually going to be more painful than the bar since the edges will dig into your neck. So I wouldn’t buy one for the comfort factor.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
hoosierdaddy wrote:
Ok, I’m confused.
I’ve always been under the impression that larger traps help releive squat pain. As such I’ve trained my traps in various ways (power cleans, snatches, deadlifts, heavy shurgs). While Im going to assume that my traps aren’t as big as yours, I’m no scrawny bitch either. Having done extensive work on my traps I actually don’t feel any pain when squatting, even if its heavy.
Heavy for me, such as last night, was 415 for 5. I’m sure you squat much more. Was their a point at which you got to a certain weight and it started hurting or have you always had pain at your maximal squat weight?
Guy, everyone isn’t made the same. If you don’t feel any pain on your traps, great. My neck measures about 20" at my heaviest weight so I don’t know if you are my size or not. I feel pain and have for years which is why I use a pad on the bar. If you don’t…drop the pad.[/quote]
I realize everybody is not made the same. I’m 6’ 235 lbs, my neck measures 18.5 inches (I just had another trainer measure it). I used to feel pain, but once I started training my upper back with the same intensity of other body parts, and I learned correct bar position, the pain went away. Even at my squat max or heaviest set I don’t feel pain, just feel very heavy.
Am I bragging or dissing you? Not at all, I train people and wanted to know if pain is something you can avoid by doing certain things. I’d be interested to see the bar position and your upper back development vs. mine or another devloped lifter and compare perceived pain.
Wait, ur not a red head are you?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Jesse Snadden wrote:
They shouldn’t rest on them, but behind them. If you can’t do that, the problem isn’t large traps but rather under developped shoulders.
Even then, many olympic weightlifters carry the bar high and they have some of the thickest traps around.
Have you tried it without the pad for at least 6-8 months before giving up on it ? I’m sure you would get used to it and the pain would subside.
My shoulders aren’t underdeveloped. Please explain to me your interest in why I use a pad and why I need to stop using one. [/quote]
I believe you will not lift to your potential with a big pad around the center of the bar. I’ve never seen anyone lift an appreciable amount of weight on the squat with a pad. It’s large and bulky and reduces the how much of the bar is actually resting on you.
I’ve even had someone complain that their elbows were killing them when they squatted, I told him the pad was causing it to roll up and down a little bit on their backs between the reps of their sets. This caused bicep tendonitis and gave them a lot of pain when they benched. I told him to ditch the pad, he complained of the pain from having the bar on his back and shoulders but I told him to suck it up and it would fade with time. Now he never squats with a pad and his elbows are fine. He was a personal trainer too.
It hurts for everyone to squat with a bar until you get accustomed to it. I’ve walked with 1000lbs super yokes on my back and it doesn’t hurt, I remember long ago when I started squatting for my first 6-8 months or so, that it was excrutiating to put anything over 225 on my back. But I was also carrying the bar too high up.
If after giving it a fair chance you still can’t get around it, then evaluate as to why, it may be that your just placing the bar in the wrong spot.
Look at brian siders here
powerlifting-ipf.com/pictures/wormenpl04/siders-sq.jpg
He doesn’t place it directly on his traps, but rather behind it and it rests on the rear delts. If you can’t shelf it on the rear delts, build them up.
I never liked the manta ray. Basically it is an extra high-bar squat, so for most people it is even harder than high bar squats so you use less weight. It puts more pressure on your back. I bought it with the hopes that it would make me more upright as I squatted but it did not do that and when I got heavy it was pretty annoying digging into my back. Regular squats feel fine. I think front squats are a better alternative.
[quote]Jesse Snadden wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Jesse Snadden wrote:
They shouldn’t rest on them, but behind them. If you can’t do that, the problem isn’t large traps but rather under developped shoulders.
Even then, many olympic weightlifters carry the bar high and they have some of the thickest traps around.
Have you tried it without the pad for at least 6-8 months before giving up on it ? I’m sure you would get used to it and the pain would subside.
My shoulders aren’t underdeveloped. Please explain to me your interest in why I use a pad and why I need to stop using one.
I believe you will not lift to your potential with a big pad around the center of the bar. I’ve never seen anyone lift an appreciable amount of weight on the squat with a pad. It’s large and bulky and reduces the how much of the bar is actually resting on you.
I’ve even had someone complain that their elbows were killing them when they squatted, I told him the pad was causing it to roll up and down a little bit on their backs between the reps of their sets. This caused bicep tendonitis and gave them a lot of pain when they benched. I told him to ditch the pad, he complained of the pain from having the bar on his back and shoulders but I told him to suck it up and it would fade with time. Now he never squats with a pad and his elbows are fine. He was a personal trainer too.
It hurts for everyone to squat with a bar until you get accustomed to it. I’ve walked with 1000lbs super yokes on my back and it doesn’t hurt, I remember long ago when I started squatting for my first 6-8 months or so, that it was excrutiating to put anything over 225 on my back. But I was also carrying the bar too high up.
If after giving it a fair chance you still can’t get around it, then evaluate as to why, it may be that your just placing the bar in the wrong spot.
Look at brian siders here
powerlifting-ipf.com/pictures/wormenpl04/siders-sq.jpg
He doesn’t place it directly on his traps, but rather behind it and it rests on the rear delts. If you can’t shelf it on the rear delts, build them up.
[/quote]
The pad I use isn’t big and bulky. It fits me just fine and I’ve used it for years. I could see if I was small and weak but I’m not. I am also not a beginner.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
The best device made is either a simple pad on the bar or a towel.
[/quote]
Prof - I’ve always liked how you pretty much say what you feel to people on here, so I have do the same. You lose major hardcore points using the pad or a towel on the bar. Try low bar squats, that is what all powerlifters do and get by fine.
III have used the Manta Ray for squats and I was throughly unimpressed. I suppose in theory it’s OK- It forces you to keep the bar in the proper position on your upper traps and not across your neck(as some newbis may do). The Manta Ray slips onto the bar with a siceways “C” shaped lip and clips itself into place. But- it is a smooth, semi-rigid plastic that slides around on the bar and on our back as you perform the squat. It felt like the bar could slide out of control any second. I don’t think it would be safe to do any significant weight with it safely.
There’s one designed for a front squat as well. It’s called a Sting Ray. Here’s the company’s web page.
Sorry- just realized the redudancy of my post, but maybe the website is helpful?
[quote]nptitim wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The best device made is either a simple pad on the bar or a towel.
Prof - I’ve always liked how you pretty much say what you feel to people on here, so I have do the same. You lose major hardcore points using the pad or a towel on the bar. Try low bar squats, that is what all powerlifters do and get by fine.[/quote]
I think what matters is the results you get, not who you are trying to impress with your lifting technique. If it works, why change it?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think what matters is the results you get, not who you are trying to impress with your lifting technique. If it works, why change it?[/quote]
Fair Enough