I am squatting tomorrow. I will video the low back and front squat lift using my new adjustments. Cant wait.
Look forward to seeing the new video mate, keep them coming!
I am doing the 531 program and I am in week 4 light deload week. I filmed the low back and front squat. I have never done a front squat before. “Chest up” was the tip I really felt a difference today. when I kept the chest up it seemed to help keep the elbows down which helped with the back tightness. I really like front squats. I wish my back squat felt as good as the front. The weight was really light today so I will see in the upcoming weeks if I am improving under increased weight. The thumb-less grip was hard on my wrists. I had some battery issues so some of the lifts cut off.
It seems to me that a thumbless grip could be dangerous at heavier weights. If the grip starts to slip how do you recover or is it locked in tight enough between the rear delts and the down pressure of tucking the elbows down?
Also, chest up and eyes up. Your body always follows your head. Your head typically follows your eyes. Think about it this way, if doing a forward summersault you tuck your chin and the body rolls forward and rotates around. Try picturing doing a summersault with your neck craned back and eyes towards the sky. Won’t work.
This last video it looks like you’ve made some good improvements. The biggest thing I see that you changed but could continue to get better at is total body tightness. Just like your back everything has to be super tight. looks like you might be able to force your knees out a bit more. Try this next time- Act like your trying to spread the floor underneath you and you will feel your hips engage and allow you to force your knees out. And change your shoes. With your wider power stance, a pair of chuck taylors should work great.
Back squat: Your chest is much better than the first video. Keep at it. Elbows still up a bit but doing better, time with practice and good cues will fix things. I don’t mind the false grip at all, whatever works. I feel I can grip better/tighter back with a full grip, some others better with a false grip.
Front squat looks good. No need to have all your fingers under the bar, 2 will do just fine, but good for elbow/shoulder/wrist flexibility.
Focus on pushing your elbows IN together and UP at the same time (think of rotating around a circle left goes counter clockwise and right goes clockwise), pushing and holding that position makes it even easier to keep the weight racked and lead head up out of the hole.
Your tightness getting under the bar with the back squat is much improved. Still need to focus and get tighter but you have exactly the right idea, it’s always a never ending process. If you feel like your head is going to explode…you’re probably about tight enough to unrack the bar 
Seriously though, keep at it. Improved. Also if the back squat doesn’t feel as “comfortable” as the front then try just moving your feet in just a tiny bit, couple inches maybe, and focus more on knees out when starting your descent. But really, one thing at a time. Save that for later as you are getting fine depth and need to put all your focus on back tightness, chest up/elbows down.
[quote]ballnm wrote:
It seems to me that a thumbless grip could be dangerous at heavier weights. If the grip starts to slip how do you recover or is it locked in tight enough between the rear delts and the down pressure of tucking the elbows down? [/quote]
Can’t speak for everyone, but I use a thumbless grip and my fingers don’t do much to actually support the weight. In the event it slips it just pushes more on my palms than anything else, then when that happens I just rack it and reset. Worst comes to worst, fall forward and let the safety bars do their job.
[quote]238 wrote:
[quote]ballnm wrote:
It seems to me that a thumbless grip could be dangerous at heavier weights. If the grip starts to slip how do you recover or is it locked in tight enough between the rear delts and the down pressure of tucking the elbows down? [/quote]
Can’t speak for everyone, but I use a thumbless grip and my fingers don’t do much to actually support the weight. In the event it slips it just pushes more on my palms than anything else, then when that happens I just rack it and reset. Worst comes to worst, fall forward and let the safety bars do their job.[/quote]
I’ll give it a try. I don’t have much flexibility in my shoulders and have issues pulling my elbows in and down. I recently started using three finger grip which has helped. Wondering if thumbless would be better.
Great squats man, good improvements.
I think you need to go higher bar, and narrow your stance a bit more. I can tell you’ve watched the Rippetoe vids, and it’s a good style, but I feel higher bar and sitting down as opposed to back is still stronger.
Your front squats are good, but you need to sit straight down and let your knees travel further forward.
I think your hips are a little off, and some stretching before hand could help to even out your descent.
Overall great squats
[quote]Larry10 wrote:
Great squats man, good improvements.
I think you need to go higher bar, and narrow your stance a bit more. I can tell you’ve watched the Rippetoe vids, and it’s a good style, but I feel higher bar and sitting down as opposed to back is still stronger.
Your front squats are good, but you need to sit straight down and let your knees travel further forward.
I think your hips are a little off, and some stretching before hand could help to even out your descent.
Overall great squats[/quote]
I’d agree about slightly narrower stance on back squats, but I figure it’s hard enough to focus on all the things we already told him to fix and I’d rather have him take all his energy into hardwiring the new “tightness” changes and chest up/elbows down into his technique rather than telling him even more stuff to work on 
I do disagree about the front squats though. Absolutely disagree. His front squat form looks much better and he already said it “feels much better and more natural” than his back squat–in my opinion and experience, that usually means you’re on the right track. I usually tell the people I coach that very thing after we get more solid on the fundamentals being integrated into proper technique.
I very rarely if ever think that MORE forward knee travel is ever a good thing to be SOUGHT after. Besides, if you can feel your hamstrings work and stretch in the front squat and stay upright, you’re going to get more poundage out of your lifts staying that way because of more contribution by the posterior chain. Letting the knees track MORE forward diminishes the stretch and contribution of the hamstrings and works against overall leg development. None of the olympic lifters or coaches I know tell their lifters to get more forward knee travel either. I would tell him to keep his front squat form as is personally. My .02
agree about the hip stretching though.
[quote]238 wrote:
[quote]ballnm wrote:
It seems to me that a thumbless grip could be dangerous at heavier weights. If the grip starts to slip how do you recover or is it locked in tight enough between the rear delts and the down pressure of tucking the elbows down? [/quote]
Can’t speak for everyone, but I use a thumbless grip and my fingers don’t do much to actually support the weight. In the event it slips it just pushes more on my palms than anything else, then when that happens I just rack it and reset. Worst comes to worst, fall forward and let the safety bars do their job.[/quote]
Me too.
If you are going to use the thumbless grip, start out that way as well. You wrapped your thumbs around the bar and then pulled them back like it was an afterthought. Try putting the heel of your hands against the bar instead of wrapping your palms around it.
My technique for getting tight:
- Heels of hands on the bar, with a fairly close grip. I usually have my pinkies on the outer rings.
- As you step under the bar, pull your elbows down as far as you can by engaging your lats and then squeeze your shoulder blades together as tight as possible. Step so that your feet are centered directly under the bar.
- You should still be standing tall right now so the bar will be too low on your back to unrack. Walk it up your back to the shelf you just created with your shoulder blades by arching your back and pushing back your hips.
- Squeeze the bar as hard as you can with your lats & pecs and unrack. The best cue here is simply to push your elbows down as hard as you can. Keep squeezing the entire lift. Squats are a killer of an isometric exercise for your lats. Mine actually get sore from time to time just with squats.
This puts a ton of strain on your elbows so you may have to widen your grip a bit or play with it if you have elbow problems. I’m lucky enough that I have never had an issue with mine. Give it a try and go from there, but this works well for me. I’m not going to say it’s the only way, especially in regards to hand position, but I had a hard time with a low bar position for a long time because I was never tight enough to hold the bar there.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Larry10 wrote:
Great squats man, good improvements.
I think you need to go higher bar, and narrow your stance a bit more. I can tell you’ve watched the Rippetoe vids, and it’s a good style, but I feel higher bar and sitting down as opposed to back is still stronger.
Your front squats are good, but you need to sit straight down and let your knees travel further forward.
I think your hips are a little off, and some stretching before hand could help to even out your descent.
Overall great squats[/quote]
I’d agree about slightly narrower stance on back squats, but I figure it’s hard enough to focus on all the things we already told him to fix and I’d rather have him take all his energy into hardwiring the new “tightness” changes and chest up/elbows down into his technique rather than telling him even more stuff to work on
I do disagree about the front squats though. Absolutely disagree. His front squat form looks much better and he already said it “feels much better and more natural” than his back squat–in my opinion and experience, that usually means you’re on the right track. I usually tell the people I coach that very thing after we get more solid on the fundamentals being integrated into proper technique.
I very rarely if ever think that MORE forward knee travel is ever a good thing to be SOUGHT after. Besides, if you can feel your hamstrings work and stretch in the front squat and stay upright, you’re going to get more poundage out of your lifts staying that way because of more contribution by the posterior chain. Letting the knees track MORE forward diminishes the stretch and contribution of the hamstrings and works against overall leg development. None of the olympic lifters or coaches I know tell their lifters to get more forward knee travel either. I would tell him to keep his front squat form as is personally. My .02[/quote]
Hey man, I never mind someone disagreeing with me, it forces me to reinforce my beliefs or change them. I’m always up for a good spirited debate as long as it remains good spirited and with the end result of gaining knowledge, I don’t do arguments.
I see what you’re getting at with recruiting the posterior chain with the front squat… but whenever anyone starts talking about the posterior chain and a squat I immediately see some holes in the logic.
You spoke of feeling the stretch in the hamstrings and working them… let’s talk about the function of the hamstrings, being a hip extensor and a knee flexor. During the descent, the hamstrings will stretch from the eccentric portion of their hip extensor role, but during this portion the hamstrings also contract from their role as a knee flexor. What this causes is an isometric contraction, the reverse is true for the ascent but reversed, this makes the hamstrings more of a stabilizer muscle, so in actuality they’re not as big a deal as they’re made out to be, still very important, but it’s the glutes that have a prime role in hip extension.
Looking at the quads, being a knee extensor, and the prime mover of the front squat. The more forward you push your knees, the more demand you place on the quads, and the more torque. What this means is forcing your knees forward gives a greater stretch reflex and a more forceful contraction, this also keeps you more upright, and if you notice during his videos he’s leaning forward, IMO too much.
When you sit back you take a lot of the torque and stretch off the quads, and they can’t contract the same way as opposed to being fully loaded. They’re still the primary mover, the glutes aid in contraction, but below parallel, it’s mostly quads. What happens when someone’s quads aren’t up to par, is their butt will shoot back to where the glutes can contract more forcefully, and what happens is they drop the bar.
When I initially recomended the front squats, it’s sole purpose was to build the quads to aid in the back squat where all the same principles apply. You’ll be more betover in the back squat, but still you need strong quads to get out of the hole, and if they aren’t strong enough, the lifter will pitch forward because the glutes are taking over. If they try to sit back too much the whole time, they just won’t get out of the hole, and they’ll never hit their full potential in the squat.
Let me know what you think
I don’t like arguments or debates. And regardless I’d rather not clutter up a thread for help with academic or other debate
I think you mistook what I was saying. I was speaking less from a biomechanical point of view and more from a coaching cue or mental focus point of view. For instance, telling someone to get their knees to track more forward takes focus off of what 99% of all beginners and intermediates need to focus all their energy on–tight upper and lower back, chest up, elbows down, knees out, break hips first (usually). If it happens as a byproduct of squatting fine, but I don’t like influencing someone to intentionally track more forward…I’ve never met somebody who sat too far back in their front squat, or high bar narrow back squat. Always guys who sink too far forward, break at the knees first, tip forward in the hole, etc. Also, tipping forward in the hole might not be glutes taking over–it is very real possibility that it’s weak upper back, weak abs, and a technical problem. a weak upper back will shift your weight forward regardless of what your leg strength is. Same with abs that cave.
I’ve got more to say but can’t relate my thoughts at the moment right now…hopefully later.
This is one of the best squat set-up video’s that I’ve seen. Although I’ve been competing for years and knew much of it, the presentation helped solidify quite a bit of it in my mind and my ability to cue myself on what to think about.
Well I had a baby Jan 4th and have been getting back to my squat training. I had poor elbow position in my squats and was doing enough curls, chins, and dips to get a little elbow pain on my inside left arm. I squatted today and think I finally found a grip/ set up I can run with. Take a look at these two videos and let me know if this looks better. I know there is no weight but I want to make sure this is a winner and start working back up. I also want to build a wide stance if it will take me further in unequipped lifting. What are your thoughts?
shot from the back