That’s part of his argument though, that the back squat is replicating a movement that’s already being trained by the lifts and the front squat.
[quote]ninearms wrote:
That’s part of his argument though, that the back squat is replicating a movement that’s already being trained by the lifts and the front squat.[/quote]
yeah, but if you squat a totally different way then you do in the full lifts, wouldn’t that be more detrimental then helpful?
[quote]romanaz wrote:
ninearms wrote:
That’s part of his argument though, that the back squat is replicating a movement that’s already being trained by the lifts and the front squat.
yeah, but if you squat a totally different way then you do in the full lifts, wouldn’t that be more detrimental then helpful?[/quote]
The following is from page 47 of Mark Ripprtoe’s book “Strong Enough?”
"In fact, I’ll go out on a limb here and say that Olympic lifters should probably learn to back squat with a low bar position, since it allows the use of heavier weights, and it is the only exercise in the weight room that specifically trains hip drive. After all, why do Olympic lifters do the back squat? It is not a contested lift. The front squat is another exercise anyway. The high back angle of the Olympic squat is not reproduced in the pull of either the snatch or the clean.
In fact, weightlifting coaches advise their athletes to keep the back angle as high as possible in their back squats precisely to reduce the low back torque that the long lever arm produces, and this angle ends up being more vertical than that used on either of the pulls. It’s like trying to make the back squat into a slightly different version of the front squat. But that misses the point of the back squat. Olympic lifters squat to get their hips, legs, trunk, and back strong, like everybody else does. Since the low bar position allows the use of heavier weights in a position more similar to that of the pulls, and works the low back at an angle more useful for the pull, I submit that it is better for weightlifters, and everyone, to do it this way."
I think he makes an assumption there though, that the back squat is trained solely as assistance for the pull, when there are much better ways to improve the pull (such as doing pulls and deadlifts).
I always thought they did back squats because you can do the MOST weight with it, front squat you can’t load as much weight.
I think you should learn one squat movement with just the bar and putting on more weight each session as your technique allows, preferably a simpler movement like the high bar squat versus the low bar.
Then when you’re good enough that you can strain and keep technique constant on it, do the same process with another squat movement as assistance while keeping the first one as your core exercise. As time goes by you’ll be able to perform more and more movements, and be less restricted on your programming. If you keep a log you will also be able to see which movement helps YOU the most for your goals!
Obviously none of us here really follow(ed) that rule, which is a pretty logic process to learning any lift and its variations, but hey… Do as I say not as I do!
I would recamend learning the front squat as you learn the back squat, also learn overhead squatting. When i tried to learn frontsquat I could backsquat low 400’s for a single but couldnt even lower 185 with the front squat do to something, i had to do concentric frontsquats and it took a month to get that to something acceptable. Acceptable being a weight I could work my legs with and not feeling like im gonna fall over. OH squats still suck, under 200 but i think that is from a weak “core” or something.
[quote]Scrotus wrote:
I would recamend learning the front squat as you learn the back squat, also learn overhead squatting. When i tried to learn frontsquat I could backsquat low 400’s for a single but couldnt even lower 185 with the front squat do to something, i had to do concentric frontsquats and it took a month to get that to something acceptable. Acceptable being a weight I could work my legs with and not feeling like im gonna fall over. OH squats still suck, under 200 but i think that is from a weak “core” or something.[/quote]
overhead is just tough to balance takes strong shoulders, I can prob only do low 400 for back squat also but I’ve done 225 for reps in overhead squatting so your shoulders might be weak as well.
What is foam rolling?
[quote]blazindave wrote:
What is foam rolling?[/quote]
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/performance_training/feel_better_for_10_bucks&cr=
[quote]concrete wrote:
romanaz wrote:
ninearms wrote:
That’s part of his argument though, that the back squat is replicating a movement that’s already being trained by the lifts and the front squat.
yeah, but if you squat a totally different way then you do in the full lifts, wouldn’t that be more detrimental then helpful?
The following is from page 47 of Mark Ripprtoe’s book “Strong Enough?”
"In fact, I’ll go out on a limb here and say that Olympic lifters should probably learn to back squat with a low bar position, since it allows the use of heavier weights, and it is the only exercise in the weight room that specifically trains hip drive. After all, why do Olympic lifters do the back squat? It is not a contested lift. The front squat is another exercise anyway. The high back angle of the Olympic squat is not reproduced in the pull of either the snatch or the clean.
In fact, weightlifting coaches advise their athletes to keep the back angle as high as possible in their back squats precisely to reduce the low back torque that the long lever arm produces, and this angle ends up being more vertical than that used on either of the pulls. It’s like trying to make the back squat into a slightly different version of the front squat. But that misses the point of the back squat. Olympic lifters squat to get their hips, legs, trunk, and back strong, like everybody else does. Since the low bar position allows the use of heavier weights in a position more similar to that of the pulls, and works the low back at an angle more useful for the pull, I submit that it is better for weightlifters, and everyone, to do it this way."[/quote]
the back squat is meant to strengthen the muscles used in the portion of the snatch and clean where you stand up with the weight. You do pulls and variations on them (ie : deadlifts, pulls from hang etc) to strengthen the muscles of the pull.
If back squatting w/ a low bar is such a great thing, then how come none of the olympic lifters train that way? How come all the IronMind training hall tapes show high bar squats? Because thats how your supposed to squat!
well it looks like your to strong! dont get cocky its bad thing here. when doing zercher squats your upper body controuls the weight to an extent! But back squats and front squat rely not on you man handling the weight and out muscleing it but stabilizing the weight and controling it with smaller core muscles! so strengthen those and watch your numbers sore!
I would recomend some pistol( single legged bw squat) and plain out just lifting lighter till your pain subside. Those of us who know when to quit are those of us still walking at 40! But dont think you can get massive strength gains take it easy focus on stabilizing muscle groups for 4-6 weeks and then throw some wieght on and watch your numbers sore!
Squatting with a low bar position is superior for building strength and saving one’s knees.
Squatting with a low bar position changes body leverage and allows the athlete to lean forward more but still keep the bar moving in a straight line. This same forward lean cannot be done efficiently with a high-bar squat.
The forward lean permitted with a low bar position allows the hamstrings to contribute more to lifting the weight. The forward lean also does not cause the knees to track as far over the toes. This is good news for the knees.
Going ATG will cause your back to round if you don’t keep a tight arch and/or if you lack the hamstring flexibility. Just get your hamstring flexibility up to par, go to parallel, and keep that arch tight. In that 2 inches between parallel and ATG, you might be losing your tightness. You must actively arch your back the entire time.
Zercher Squats are a great lift to do for 1-3 reps but they’re worthless for higher reps since you can’t comfortably keep heavy weight in your arms for that long. You can get some amount of rest at the top of a conventional squat, but you need to stay tight throughout the Zercher Squat so you don’t drop the bar.
Zercher lifts are perfect as a Max Effort lift. Just remember that you can’t max out in the same lift all the time. To include them in your program You could either…
Use a template like westside where you rotate the Squat variations you max out in each week.
Use a progressive resistance template where you are adding weight to your squat every week for 6 or 8 weeks then you test your max with a Zercher Squat.
Workout 1 - 225X10 (Back Squat)
Workout 4 - 245X10 (Back Squat)
Workout 6 - 325X1 (Zercher Squat)
Box Squats can be done at varying heights for Max Effort workouts. A 18’ Box Squat and a 14’ Box Squat will have you moving very different numbers and are pretty much different exercises altogether. High Box Squats are good for adding strength. Parallel and Below Parallel Box Squats are good for getting you out of the hole and helping with sticking points.
Dynamic Effort Squat workouts should use boxes either at or below parallel. The purpose of Dynamic Effort workouts is to develop starting strength and speed strength . The purpose is not to develop maximal strength.
High Box Squats are harder to recover from than Parallel or Low box squats. On High Box Squats you can use more than 100% of your best squat while on Parallel Box Squats your max might be 70% of your Squat Max.
didn’t mean to piss on anyones parade, i obviously hold rippetoe in high regard, since i haven’t spent enough time under the bar
but to the OP if you’re training for OL then everything i say is worth dog shit and there are plenty of posts on this thread to guide you down the right path