Squat Issue

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

I’m terribly weak at the squat. I got half decent DL but my best squat vs DL is 69% of DL. I don’t want to put the numbers as little girls would laugh at how weak I am at the squat. Anyway, got that out of the way.

I’m 6’1". I’d say my body is fairly even. I don’t think I have a long/short torso and/or long/short limbs.

When I go heavy, I have a tendency to lean way too much forward which means that my Squat becomes a “leg press” followed by a good morning/back extension.

My squat ‘style’ is a little hybrid between power lifting squat and olympic squat. Low bar, feet slightly wider than shoulder apart, I go AGT, hand grip is fairly tight and narrow, I try to push the elbows underneath the bar as much as I can but still…

I do mostly 5/3/1 training with some conditioning and a little bit of BB (for da ladies).

I decided to lower my training max by 150lbs and start over again. I pause at the bottom of the squat (atg) for a good 2 sec. I try to keep my upper body as up right as possible, looking at a 45 degrees/up to maintain a good
posture.

Then I did some heavy-ish (6 reps) leg press to keep my “leg strength” while my core and/or reprogram my body to do good form squat.

Followed by some barbell over head squats (very very girly weights)to help to work on my posture even more.

Finished with some slow controlled paused at the bottom GHR.

Alright anyone who read the whole thing and have valuable advice(s) on if it’s a good idea and/or if they have advice(s) to remedy my problem I’d like to hear.

2

Don’t be worried about your numbers. Nobody is going to laugh at you, as we all had to start somewhere. Just keep lifting and kicking ass.

If your butt shoots up first in the squat, my remedy would be to do some front squats. Either switch over for a few weeks as your main squat or with lighter weight, do them after you back squat as assistance.

3

For what specific reasons are you squatting atg with a pause?

4

You sound like me. In fact, you’ve got pretty much the same lift ratios as I do, you’re the same height as me and, based on how you describe your preferred squat form, I’d bet that you also have long femurs. Welcome to the world of inconvenient leverages.

Here’s what’s worked/is working for me:

  • Not going ATG with a low-bar squat
  • Widening my stance somewhat
  • Hammering out front squats and paused squats

Don’t try to overcomplicate things. Squatting doesn’t come naturally to people like us and probably never will, so we need to try to emphasize this in our training. Try out a high-frequency squat program for a cycle and see how you respond to it. Would be interested in seeing a video if you have one for comparison’s sake.

Good luck!

5

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For what specific reasons are you squatting atg with a pause?[/quote]

The reason for the ATG is it translate better to athletic performance. I understand full well that power lifter squat type will give me bigger numbers but although numbers are a goal it’s not the only goal and not the first goal.

The pause at the bottom is I want to be sure that the lift is strength related not a combination of strength and stretch reflex. Again, I know that will definitely lower my 1RM.

Does it make sense or am I way out of her?

6

[quote]kgildner wrote:
You sound like me. In fact, you’ve got pretty much the same lift ratios as I do, you’re the same height as me and, based on how you describe your preferred squat form, I’d bet that you also have long femurs. Welcome to the world of inconvenient leverages.

Here’s what’s worked/is working for me:

  • Not going ATG with a low-bar squat
  • Widening my stance somewhat
  • Hammering out front squats and paused squats

Don’t try to overcomplicate things. Squatting doesn’t come naturally to people like us and probably never will, so we need to try to emphasize this in our training. Try out a high-frequency squat program for a cycle and see how you respond to it. Would be interested in seeing a video if you have one for comparison’s sake.

Good luck![/quote]

Will do except widening the stance it put my knees way out of line and I go ATG.

7

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For what specific reasons are you squatting atg with a pause?[/quote]

The reason for the ATG is it translate better to athletic performance. I understand full well that power lifter squat type will give me bigger numbers but although numbers are a goal it’s not the only goal and not the first goal.

The pause at the bottom is I want to be sure that the lift is strength related not a combination of strength and stretch reflex. Again, I know that will definitely lower my 1RM.

Does it make sense or am I way out of her?[/quote]
That’s all well and good. However, the fact that your ATG pause squat is only 69% of your deadlift is not all that surprising. Squat/deadlift ratio varies with body type and lifting experience, but 80-90% is probably normal with a squat style optimized to move the most weight. Start pausing and going ATG and it’s not weird that you end up at 69%.

8

[quote]Silyak wrote:

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For what specific reasons are you squatting atg with a pause?[/quote]

The reason for the ATG is it translate better to athletic performance. I understand full well that power lifter squat type will give me bigger numbers but although numbers are a goal it’s not the only goal and not the first goal.

The pause at the bottom is I want to be sure that the lift is strength related not a combination of strength and stretch reflex. Again, I know that will definitely lower my 1RM.

Does it make sense or am I way out of her?[/quote]
That’s all well and good. However, the fact that your ATG pause squat is only 69% of your deadlift is not all that surprising. Squat/deadlift ratio varies with body type and lifting experience, but 80-90% is probably normal with a squat style optimized to move the most weight. Start pausing and going ATG and it’s not weird that you end up at 69%. [/quote]

Sorry, my bad, the 69% is of a regular “power lifter” type of squat. Down, break the 90 and back up. I’m pretty sure that my ATG, paused squat is closer to 50% of my deadlift. And that’s with a belt. No knee wraps. My DL is almost 2.3 my body weight and my squat (power lifting-ish) is a little less than 1.6 times my body weight.

9

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For what specific reasons are you squatting atg with a pause?[/quote]

The reason for the ATG is it translate better to athletic performance. I understand full well that power lifter squat type will give me bigger numbers but although numbers are a goal it’s not the only goal and not the first goal.

The pause at the bottom is I want to be sure that the lift is strength related not a combination of strength and stretch reflex. Again, I know that will definitely lower my 1RM.

Does it make sense or am I way out of her?[/quote]

The biggest problem I see here is too many goals. If you are training the squat in order to improve athletic performance, your metric for success shouldn’t be “squat weight increases”, it should be “athletic performance improves” (however you see fit to measure that). If your squat weight stagnates, or even regresses, but your athletic performance improves, what you are doing is working. However, if your athletic performance is NOT improving while you are doing the ATG squat, then you would need to reach the conclusion that the ATG squat actually does NOT help meet this goal, in which case a new movement would need to be selected.

However, if in fact your goal is to squat more weight, then you would need to conclude that your current approach is not working.

It seems to be that you are going about your training in reverse. You are selecting certain movements with the hope that doing so will yield certain results, whereas really, I feel you should achieve certain results and then analyze what movements were needed to get there. Right now, you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by using this one strategy that is not successful. The joy of this situation is that you now have nothing to lose if you start experimenting, because your current approach is not resulting in success.

If I were you, I would try some new squatting movements. Try a power squat with a stretch reflex, or a box squat, or a front squat, or a safety squat bar squat, or even a partial squat and see what happens. If you don’t get the results you’re after, keep trying new movements until you do, and once you do, stick with THAT movement until IT doesn’t work and try something else.

10

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For what specific reasons are you squatting atg with a pause?[/quote]

The reason for the ATG is it translate better to athletic performance. I understand full well that power lifter squat type will give me bigger numbers but although numbers are a goal it’s not the only goal and not the first goal.

The pause at the bottom is I want to be sure that the lift is strength related not a combination of strength and stretch reflex. Again, I know that will definitely lower my 1RM.

Does it make sense or am I way out of her?[/quote]

The biggest problem I see here is too many goals. If you are training the squat in order to improve athletic performance, your metric for success shouldn’t be “squat weight increases”, it should be “athletic performance improves” (however you see fit to measure that). If your squat weight stagnates, or even regresses, but your athletic performance improves, what you are doing is working. However, if your athletic performance is NOT improving while you are doing the ATG squat, then you would need to reach the conclusion that the ATG squat actually does NOT help meet this goal, in which case a new movement would need to be selected.

However, if in fact your goal is to squat more weight, then you would need to conclude that your current approach is not working.

It seems to be that you are going about your training in reverse. You are selecting certain movements with the hope that doing so will yield certain results, whereas really, I feel you should achieve certain results and then analyze what movements were needed to get there. Right now, you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by using this one strategy that is not successful. The joy of this situation is that you now have nothing to lose if you start experimenting, because your current approach is not resulting in success.

If I were you, I would try some new squatting movements. Try a power squat with a stretch reflex, or a box squat, or a front squat, or a safety squat bar squat, or even a partial squat and see what happens. If you don’t get the results you’re after, keep trying new movements until you do, and once you do, stick with THAT movement until IT doesn’t work and try something else.
[/quote]

Very good point I appreciate. The ATG squats are “new” I was doing the regular power lifting squats and the weight didn’t increase for the longest time. Although it’s pretty hard (but not impossible) to measure athletic performance in my case I truly believe that it would help. I guess the number on the bar is not that important after all. But it tells me if I get stronger or not.

Again, you’re totally right, I wish I had bigger legs, leaner legs, squat tons, sprint like Usain Bolt, run a marathon in 2h15m, look good on the beach, dunk a basketball, carry tons of weight on my back, do everything good even when sleep and food deprived in harsh conditions,… But you can’t get it all. Maybe a stack of HGH/EPO/Test/mast/deca/clen/eq/tbol/slin/… might help??? lol ok or just work harder in the gym.

I think I’ll do the ATG (5-3-1)for a little while and re-evaluate and do front and/or over head squats as assisting exercises. Gotta find a good way to evaluate if my ‘athletic’ performance increase.

Thanks

11

Squatting is more difficult technically than people seem to think. It takes practice. Here’s my general advice for improving:

(Choose a style of squat - roughly, it can be adapted - and stick with it; either low-bar powerlifting style, not ‘ATG’ (my favourite), or high-bar, ‘ATG’. Both are equally ‘athletic’, and will help greatly with performance in many sports. Stance depends partly on build, as does grip, etc., so adjust accordingly)

1.) Up your frequency. Up your volume. You need practice (with the squat itself, not a variation).

2.) Avoid high-rep sets for now, as they can reinforce poor technique due to fatigue.

3.) Practice squats as a skill, not a conditioning drill.

4.) Recognise that squatting with heavy weights (relative to your maximum) is not the same, technique wise, as lifting relatively light weights; don’t be afraid of adding weight, just avoid any major breakdown in form and strive for the next level of skill execution.

Remember: -
At first, you didn’t squat well and didn’t know how to improve: “unconsciously incompetent”

Now, you have an idea of what to do, but cannot execute it very well: “consciously incompetent”

Soon, with training, you will learn to execute a squat with decent form, so long as the weight is limited: “consciously competent”

Eventually, after a few months of frequent practice, you will learn to use good form whenever you squat, and become “unconsciously competent” (although reminders and cues may still be needed - it is on-going).

I believe that the squat is one of the best exercises around for building overall strength and general athletic performance.
Good Luck.

12

Thanks to everybody. I forgot to mention, I’ve been training for years (15 year+) I don’t think I did squats for the first few years that I trained. Probably from a mix of lack of knowledge and “chicks dig big arms and they don’t care about legs” kinda of mentality. Then got injured (both knees) and the doc/physio said I could never work out my legs anymore.

Got fed up of my small legs, slowly started to incorporated squats in my training routine. Again lack of knowledge (and finance to afford a trainer) didn’t help to learn how to squat properly. Anyway, I bought all those muscle and fitness magazines so I knew EVERYTHING about training. That was back then. Now I know nothing.

Then came the love-hate relationship with the squats. Slowly turned into more love than hate. Then saw guys squatting inhumane amount of weights. Got jealous so learned a little more with a power lifter when I was away for work. So I really only started to be worried about my squat about 2 years ago. But at the same time, the first time I DL I pull 495lbs, fairly easily. But the squat sucked.

Anyhow, that’s my lovely story with the squats. I only posted here to get some advice because of my shitty squatting form and I got a lot more training points. So thanks again everyone. No matter what they say about you, I know deep down inside you guys aren’t that bad. lol

Enuff emotional shit lets crush some weights.

13

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For what specific reasons are you squatting atg with a pause?[/quote]

The reason for the ATG is it translate better to athletic performance. I understand full well that power lifter squat type will give me bigger numbers but although numbers are a goal it’s not the only goal and not the first goal.

The pause at the bottom is I want to be sure that the lift is strength related not a combination of strength and stretch reflex. Again, I know that will definitely lower my 1RM.

Does it make sense or am I way out of her?[/quote]

The biggest problem I see here is too many goals. If you are training the squat in order to improve athletic performance, your metric for success shouldn’t be “squat weight increases”, it should be “athletic performance improves” (however you see fit to measure that). If your squat weight stagnates, or even regresses, but your athletic performance improves, what you are doing is working. However, if your athletic performance is NOT improving while you are doing the ATG squat, then you would need to reach the conclusion that the ATG squat actually does NOT help meet this goal, in which case a new movement would need to be selected.

However, if in fact your goal is to squat more weight, then you would need to conclude that your current approach is not working.

It seems to be that you are going about your training in reverse. You are selecting certain movements with the hope that doing so will yield certain results, whereas really, I feel you should achieve certain results and then analyze what movements were needed to get there. Right now, you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by using this one strategy that is not successful. The joy of this situation is that you now have nothing to lose if you start experimenting, because your current approach is not resulting in success.

If I were you, I would try some new squatting movements. Try a power squat with a stretch reflex, or a box squat, or a front squat, or a safety squat bar squat, or even a partial squat and see what happens. If you don’t get the results you’re after, keep trying new movements until you do, and once you do, stick with THAT movement until IT doesn’t work and try something else.
[/quote]

Very good point I appreciate. The ATG squats are “new” I was doing the regular power lifting squats and the weight didn’t increase for the longest time. Although it’s pretty hard (but not impossible) to measure athletic performance in my case I truly believe that it would help. I guess the number on the bar is not that important after all. But it tells me if I get stronger or not.

Again, you’re totally right, I wish I had bigger legs, leaner legs, squat tons, sprint like Usain Bolt, run a marathon in 2h15m, look good on the beach, dunk a basketball, carry tons of weight on my back, do everything good even when sleep and food deprived in harsh conditions,… But you can’t get it all. Maybe a stack of HGH/EPO/Test/mast/deca/clen/eq/tbol/slin/… might help??? lol ok or just work harder in the gym.

I think I’ll do the ATG (5-3-1)for a little while and re-evaluate and do front and/or over head squats as assisting exercises. Gotta find a good way to evaluate if my ‘athletic’ performance increase.

Thanks [/quote]

That sounds like crossfit goals to me. I’m not knocking crossfit, I’ve done it a couple times, it’s fun, but not my cup of tea. But, it is definitely more of a functional strength / athletic competition than powerlifting in my experience.