there is no such thing as essential carbohydrates. We can (in my opinion should) be cutting carbs out of our diet instead. First week or so we won’t perform as well in the gym and might not feel as good but after that we will be much better off once our body adapts to burning fat as energy as opposed to glucose.
Many athletes have proven this, [/quote]
Ermm…not quite. It might be true for sedentary people, but for those who train hard there is something called conditionally essential carbohydrates (I’m borrowing the term from Nate Miyaki). You need to include carbs in some way or the other, whether through carb cycling, backloading, typical bodybuilding diet, refeeds or whatever.
Can you name at least 3 top level bodybuilders or powerlifters or even any athlete for that matter that doesn’t include some sort of carbohydrate in their diet?
[quote]Mizery wrote:
I don’t know how CC is always able to read through these giant walls let alone dissect each and every point, but just to clear some stuffs up, what are your definition of low fat diet? Out of that 4000 calorie diet of yours, how much are from fat/carb/protein? You listed some benefits of low carb / high fat diets for cancer patients, kids with mental disorders and people who try to lose weight, do you belong to any of those group?
Regarding the supplement issue, no they are not necessary. But be honest with yourself, do you think you’re eating enough whole foods to cover every single base? (I’m including veggies, omega 3 sources etc as well, not just carb/fat/protein). Have you consistently hit these macros and micros everyday for the past few months?
Do you have a food log for the past 2 weeks that you can share with us? It’s probably very easy for you right now, as I assume you live with your parents and everything is paid for or cooked for you, but the convenience and price of some supplements will become very significant as you go to college or start working. Again, I’m not saying they’re a must but they can help.[/quote]
Because he is a nice person. I don’t belong into any of those categories, I was just stating the extremes to get my point across that it IS healthy for various parts of our body. People who get on a low carb ketogenic diet often speak of an increase in performance in sports, feeling better in general, improved sleeping patterns etc. I don’t really have a definition of a low fat diet, to say that if you eat less than x amount of fats your in the low fat category. But if I had to give an answer, I would say less than 80-100 grams a day is low fat. Daily I have about 300g of carbs, 160g protein, 230g fats.
I like to think I am getting most of my micronutrients. I don’t eat the exact same foods every day that sounds stupid to me, I always eat something DIFFERENT to fill in any spots I missed. I have fish every day or every other day, most days I have red meat, I have bananas and fruits here and there, veggies (i enjoy steamed broccoli, its a plus that its a ‘super food’, I eat better than 95% of people.
Yes I live with my parents and quite a bit of my meals are made for me, which yes is convenient but I would much rather make it myself. Problem is I cant cook for shit and I struggle with basic sandwiches, im working towards making my own meals, my own dinner, and meal prepping for school but I’m not quite there yet. Its also an issue that I don’t do the grocery shopping.
Never heard of conditionally essential carbohydrates, I insist though, you do not NEED carbs. Kiyoshi moody, Dave Palumbo, bodybuilders, have followed / are following a ketogenic diet. Jay cutler also, for his 2009 olympia, decided to increase his fats and cut out more carbs and he ended up looking phenominal, and won that olympia. One trend I have noticed though is that this type of diet is more popular and successful with the natural bodybuilders, its a lot less popular with people who are juicing. (not saying palumbo or cutler are natural)
surely there must be something to this diet then? If in theory it sounds flawless and evidence only keeps piling up, and there have been people both health nuts, casual bodybuilders and competitive bodybuilders who have done it with success. The only reason there aren’t more people like this is because of its lack of popularity. Most people haven’t heard of it, and even more people are scared of the word “fats”.
You’re confusing contest dieting and diets outside of that. When you still have a layer of fat to lose, 4 weeks away from a bodybuilding contest, already doing 2 hours of cardio everyday, and cut out pretty much most calorie sources then of course there’s going to be barely any carbs left, but that doesn’t mean that that kind of diet (full blown keto with no refeeds whatsoever) is optimal for someone who is trying to gain muscle or get stronger (the vast majority of us here).
Kiyoshi Moody is a strange one, I’m not sure what he’s doing nowadays but I remember him saying here on this website that he diets UP for a competition instead of dieting down, so most likely than not his approach might not be suitable for someone like you and me.
Jay cutler has included some sort of carb source in nearly every meal for several years, assuming he’s telling the truth about his diet plans, and it’s only when he reaches the final stages of dieting that the carb intake becomes very low. I.e. he got to where he was by incorporating carbs for the better part of his bodybuilding career.
Palumbo is a pretty stand up guy and seems like a nice person but from some of his clients’ testimonials, his diet advice is pretty iffy. And I wouldn’t call his diet a full blown keto either as he recommends some sort of refeed through a cheat meal per week if I remember correctly.
[quote]Massthetics wrote:
The only reason there aren’t more people like this is because of its lack of popularity. Most people haven’t heard of it, and even more people are scared of the word “fats”.[/quote]
This isn’t the 80s anymore, the in thing nowadays is to be scared of the word “carbs”
For the record, I’m not saying ketogenic diets doesn’t work, it does, but is it necessary for the majority of the target audience of this website? I really doubt it. I’m the type of person that believes every dieting approach, exercise (yes, including using the smith machine…) and training program have their place depending on various factors and goals. But worrying about doing a ketogenic diet isn’t for a 15 year old, still growing beginner who was borderline underweight.
Massthetics, you’re doing something here known as “missing the forest for the trees.”
Chris is more than capable of speaking for himself, but I believe the point he was making to you was not that “low fat diets are optimal” or “protein shakes are REQUIRED to gain muscle” - he was trying to get you to stop thinking in such absolute, black-and-white terms that everything either WORKS or DOESN’T WORK with no grey area in between
As Mizery’s last post on here says, every (within reason) diet plan, exercise program, and piece of equipment has a useful place.
I think this dialogue is good for you because it gets you to drill down and explore things in detail, but even when you do that, you still should keep in mind that we know very few things for certain. Heck, people are still debating what the right amount of sets and reps are to induce hypertrophy - why? Because it’s a question without one single answer.
As flipcollar said in your other thread, the good thing about this is that by the time you’re about 20, you’ll probably have tried a bunch of different things and figured out some of what works for you. However, for the time being, don’t be so quick to dismiss others’ experience or comments. You should have a “BS filter” to figure out when somethin sounds awry, but that doesn’t mean you should say “LOL CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS BRO TOLD ME I NEED A PROTEIN SHAKE!” when it certainly has worked for plenty of other people.
You have made good progress to date, but you still weigh 70 kg and squat your body weight. Long way to go before you ought to be speaking in such absolute terms about what works and what doesn’t work.
[quote]Massthetics wrote:
Yeah pulled hamstrings would be an issue when sprinting i’ve gotten it a few times before. My hamstrings are tight and they take longer to fully recover compared to other body parts they’re pretty annoying. I plan to do something about my hamstrings soon.[/quote]
Don’t wait for “soon”, ASAP. If you can figure out a way to foam roll or massage the hams, that wouldn’t be a bad idea. Simply stretching them isn’t the same, but wouldn’t be a bad call either.
As mentioned, just pay attention to when you’re running, when you’re squatting, and when you’re deadlifting.
[quote]Massthetics wrote:
I will happily challenge you on low fat diets I will probably learn something.[/quote]
You can, but I’m not going to play ball. Sorry, and this might seem like a dick move, but I’d rather not encourage what I see as severe and unnecessary over-analysis on your part. I’ll lay out my points, but then I’m most likely going to bail out. Reading and finding new information is very rarely a bad thing, but I get the feeling you’re making “decisions” about things without really understanding the big picture.
How about this: I’ll be more than happy to discuss/debate any topics you’d like… in six months time or when you weigh 85kilos, whichever comes first. Deal?
There is no single best way to lose bodyfat. Period, end of discussion. There are popular and unpopular ways; Effective, less effective, and ineffective ways; but there is no best way. Dr. Clay Hyght laid out some solid pros and cons of basic diet templates (low fat/low carb/low calorie) here:
This is a statement of opinion made entirely without context.
This is the problem with you making broad sweeping statements while having a whole 5 months experience. Bud, there are a ton of things you’ve probably never seen work in the real world or can’t imagine working. Give it a few years and then you can make that statement and have it carry a smidge more weight.
For most people, reaching a pre-determined protein intake is a key goal. Shakes play a role in reaching that goal for many people but if someone can fill their nutrition needs with whole foods, then, yes, a supplement would be unnecessary. For some people, that’s a big if.
Maybe 160 grams of protein is “easy” for you to achieve because you’re underweight and someone else does all your cooking? What about a 240-pound college student living in a dorm taking 15 credits and working a part-time job? Or a 200-pound office worker who puts in 12-14 hour days at his desk? Having shakes as a regular part of one’s diet is tremendously helpful for a lot of people.
Not arrogant though. Gotcha.
First of all, literally sticking with “30 minutes” is extreme, and I’ve only heard of that in your example. Generally, an hour or so post-workout is talked about as being primetime. The oversimplified logic being, hard training creates certain nutrient demands. The longer those demands go unmet, the more potential benefits you miss. This also ties into why peri-workout nutrition, instead of post, has become more popular.
Looking at workout nutrition on a good-better-best scale (which is a useful way of evaluating lots of things in general), it’s good to have “something” after you train. If that’s dinner two hours after, fine. At least you’re not fasting.
It’s better to have liquid protein and carbs very soon after training. Preferably high quality protein and fast-acting carbs. It’s best to have high quality protein and carbs during training. If you provide proper nutrition at the ideal time, the meal after training is relatively-less important.
If you used the word “yet” at the end of that sentence, I would’ve agreed with you 1,000%. I feel that once you try pushing your calorie intake closer to 5,000 on a daily basis, you’ll be reconsidering your whole food-only stance.
Again, blanket statement that, sorry to say, shows you really don’t have a handle on things to be speaking this way. Context.
As a percentage of daily calories, some coaches (and studies) suggest that one can safely and effectively go down to about 20% of total calories from fat before problems pop up. So if someone’s eating 3,000 calories, they could have 70g fat a day and be good to go. (Understanding that nutrition is relative to training and goals, of course.)
Okay, cooking I can kinda-sorta understand (even though it’s hard to screw up scrambled eggs, hard boiled eggs, or chicken in a pan). But I seriously need to know how one “struggles” when making a sandwich. Please explain.
[quote]Massthetics wrote:
I want to be sprinting anyway because I heard its good for squats and general strength, and also mobility. I can produce more explosive force in my squats and in general produce more power.[/quote]
Sprinting because you want to increase squat strength is like learning Latin because you want to speak better Italian. It might help, but there are more direct and efficient ways to improve that particular skill. Also, sprinting has little to do with improving mobility. In fact, if you’re lacking basic hip mobility, sprinting will be more difficult, so it should be addressed separately.
That’s fine and reasonable. It’s just the underlying “logic” I disagree with.
[/quote]
That’s a little bit unfair. While the point your pushing isn’t in the wrong, you’re taking the idea of squatting more weight and only looking at it under a microscopic. And while doing research and coming up with a “sound” plan is not a bad idea, too much emphasis on the plan will make for too much analysis. Sometimes you just gotta move and try new ideas!!
This thread is fucking hilarious. Yeah the OP is arrogant, but thats a great change from all the young (and older) posters who feel like they need fucking permission before they would go out and sprint.
[quote]Massthetics wrote:
I want to be sprinting anyway because I heard its good for squats and general strength, and also mobility. I can produce more explosive force in my squats and in general produce more power.[/quote]
Sprinting because you want to increase squat strength is like learning Latin because you want to speak better Italian. It might help, but there are more direct and efficient ways to improve that particular skill. Also, sprinting has little to do with improving mobility. In fact, if you’re lacking basic hip mobility, sprinting will be more difficult, so it should be addressed separately.
That’s fine and reasonable. It’s just the underlying “logic” I disagree with.
[/quote]
That’s a little bit unfair. While the point your pushing isn’t in the wrong, you’re taking the idea of squatting more weight and only looking at it under a microscopic. And while doing research and coming up with a “sound” plan is not a bad idea, too much emphasis on the plan will make for too much analysis. Sometimes you just gotta move and try new ideas!!
This thread is fucking hilarious. Yeah the OP is arrogant, but thats a great change from all the young (and older) posters who feel like they need fucking permission before they would go out and sprint.
[/quote]
I agree with Sutebun.
Let the kid sprint. Don’t think about it too much. Try it twice a week for a few weeks and see how you feel and how it affects your work in the gym. If its too much to recover from, than change it to once a week. Its not going to kill you.
How do do it? Go to your park, warm up with some dynamic movements. Do a few run through, slowly increasing speed with every run. Choose a distance you want to sprint and then sprint. Walk back for recovery.
I am by no means an expert on sprinting and training. I just started trying it for myself about three or four weeks ago. I sprint in the morning and train at night.
I didn’t have a good idea about how to implement it as well. To me sprinting and HIIT were synonymous so the only idea of training in my head was 20 seconds on 30 seconds off. I went and read advice from different sources and just went with what seemed to fit my goals and make sense to me.
The advice that made sense to me:
*If strength is your goal, treat sprinting training like strength training.
*Shorter sprints (I train usually around 30m, 60m, and an occasional 100m)
*Longer rest periods. The goal is to produce power. Rest as if you were resting between heavy sets of weight. At least one minute, up to two.
*Start with a lower volume and gradually increase it.
*two or three times a week is plenty (I have been doing two).
I started with really low volume (7x30m all out sprints = 210m) and have been slowly increasing the total distance ran in one session.
I’ll normally sprint 15-30 minutes after I wake up. Jog for 5ish minutes, do a few warm up sprints at 70-80-90% and then do the all-out sets. I eat breakfast afterwards. The sprinting is usually 12 hours apart from my training and the morning run typically helps me feel better and more prepared for lifting at night.
However, I understand why Chris seemed harsh with you. Your numbers in lifting are still that of a pretty much a complete newbie. While trying out training ideas is good, make sure you don’t lose yourself with too many goals at once.
Some of you are calling this kid arrogant, yet you have no problem putting him down over the internet. He is a 15 year old, are your self esteems really so low that you need to bash a kid over the internet? Grow up.
To answer the OP directly:
To strength train, follow a program like Stronglifts. Be careful, you are young and should not injure yourself. It is better to play it safe and practice form over weight lifted.
Sprint on the off days. Sprint in such a way that you can make progress in a consistent, organised fashion. For example, try ONE OF THESE:
increasing sprint distance
increasing sprint time
reduce rest between “sets”
increase number of “sets” with constant rest periods
BUT DO NOT MIX AND MATCH UNTIL PROGRESS STALLS. “Progress” should be defined as a percentage improvement from your last workout ideally.
As was suggested by Chris, join the track team too and eat more. You wont have a problem.
Your fears of bad coaches at the highschool level are valid. I have a permanent lower back pain because a bad coached encouraged me to deadlift when my form was clearly degrading and the weight was too much. It took me YEARS to learn how to train correctly, because I did not have anyone to help me.
It is ok to question a coach’s methodologies if you do so in a respectful manner, but do not “dismiss” or write people off. Doing so will make enemies and people will be less willing to help you.
The Prowler or sled is a great way to train for sprinting and will also help your squat! You can buy a sled that holds a good amount of weight from Dicks for about $80. Actually, I might sell my sled as I am moving to a new job. Are you in the NY area?
Here is an example of the workout I used for my sled. It did increase my sprinting speed, though I WAS NOT TRAINING TO RUN FASTER, I WAS TRAINING FOR STRENGTH. If your goal is sprinting than you should focus more on speed than strength:
Sets 1 and 2: Pull a heavy weight just above walking speed for about 100 feet. Take long deep strides. This is strength work
Sets 3 to 6: Sprint in an upright position with a moderate load for 100-150 feet
Sets 7 to 10: Drag the sled at a moderate pace with a light weight.
Progression:
Increase weight on Sets 1 and 2 by 10lbs each week.
Increase weight on all other sets by 5lbs each week.
I will not do your research for you, but you should note that the sled can actually RUIN your running patterns if not trained correctly! My literature search recommended short 10-30 foot sprints with the sled to increase your acceleration using a light weight.
Training recommendation:
I would recommend focusing on increasing sprinting sets for your initial progression, with constant rest periods. Record your average velocity each time you perform a set. This is defined at (Sprinting Distance)/(Sprinting Time). The most important number would be the average velocity for your first sprinting set. Continue to add sets until your average velocity no longer increases on this set, or your see a marked drop in later sets that you did not see in the previous week. For example, if week 7 and 8s average velocities looked like (please note these are arbitrary numbers for illustration):
The progress has stalled because your overall volume has decreased significantly, even though your initial sprinting number was HIGHER. It is time to take a short break and add an additional variable to your training. This can be adding 25 extra feet to each set, following the previous weeks progression or reducing rest time between sets, but keeping the same distance, for example.
I have used a similar method for strength training and it fucking works. I blasted my bench press and overhead press plateaus in 8 weeks, and significantly improved my squat form and strength using this type of progression. Send me a message if you want me to elaborate on the method I used.
I was always under the impression that Sprinting in terms of training for Speed vs training to supplement distance running was more along the lines of conditioning work versus cardio. Yes he is increasing his heart rate and burning calories, if he is sprinting in intervals (no fartleks) at the 85-90% heart rate would that not be in the fat burning percentage and increase GPP?
Similar to Jumping or Plyometrics, you jump for height not cardio, and you sprint for speed. Once the height or speed decreases it’s time to stop because you are being counter productive. 10 minutes post-workout sprinting with proper rest in between should help you I believe. The only thing I worry about is overtaxing your CNS based on how heavy you went earlier that workout and heavy your wanting to go the next day (if the next days workout calls for Power Cleans or not).
If you’re going to be truly training sprinting, to get better at sprinting, it would be worth your while to pick up a pair of running spikes from a running store and learn to use them. I recommend using a rubberized track for all your sprint work too, since it’s designed to handle that kind of impact. Trying to sprint on concrete is extremely rough on the body, and even running on dirt/grass can be hard. If you have access to a track, use it.
One of the problems I had back when I was running is that if I was running in normal running shoes and trying to sprint on the balls of my feet, my foot would often slip. Running spikes alleviate this problem. My old pair has 7 different places you can screw in the spikes, and I ran with spikes in the front 4 holes. A genuine running store should be able to help you with what you need.
This is what I mean by running spikes; mine have taken some abuse. This is configured for cross-country, but you can use different spikes (sharper, narrower) for track use.
Priorities what is most important to you; if you lift more than you sprint then obviously getting stronger/bigger is more important to you than sprinting and vise verse…
Will sprinting help your strength? Well as you are a beginner most activities will help increase your strength and sprinting, especially if you throw in a few hills/resisted sprints will help increase your general leg and core strength and build a general base for your lifting. Just like the right weights program ie strength—> power—> plyometrics will help your running.
Don’t over complicate your nutrition, at your age, if you are indeed training hard your biggest effort will be ensuring enough nutrients pass through your mouth, in which case a protein shake on hand post workout really isn’t the worst idea around.
Look up some sprint training programs on the internet, there are heaps out there and 99% will be better than “just sprinting in the park until you get tired”.
Thanks for the replies, I have read all of them but I’m not going to be addressing each one individually.
I have had a few sprint sessions and one thing I realised very quickly is technique is #1 priority, and also I can’t breathe. After about 50m i start feeling the need to cough, chest hurts, and I start feeling like im going to die. I never really did this sort of high intensity explosive exercises often so I can’t say if this is new or not, but I used to cycle for hours on end without any issues if that means anything.
Did a quick google search didn’t find anything useful but I wasn’t very thorough. I doubt I will be ready for cross country this year, so I am going to train for next years.
If it keeps going on, talk to your doctor about “exercise-induced asthma”. If that’s actually what you’re dealing with (and it may or may not be), then a puff of an inhaler about 20 minutes before exercise is all that’s required to keep that at bay.
But, it could also just you be getting used to sprinting. I’d give it a few weeks and go from there.
