Spring 2010 Contest Run Up

Training
681

[quote]Doyle wrote:
Wow stu it is kind of creepy how similar our injuries have been.
I kind of eluded to it earlier in the thread but I pretty much had some bad issues with my left forarm/elbow that seemed like some kind of RSI (muscle pain and greatly weakend grip).
As it progressed I started getting wrist drop on DB pressing movements and the long head of my tri was weaker and “softer” when pumped.

I went to the physio and he though it was a nerve impingment around the brachial plexus due to my trap, neck and shoulder muscles growing and getting really tight from playing my first season in the front row in rugby. luckily my season has finished and things turned around really quickly so I’m pretty much full strength on everything bar overhead db estensions.

Sorry for the massive post in your thread but when you said your triceps is getting smaller I thought you might need to start thinking about if its nerve related as well.
Doyle[/quote]

Very interesting to consider. My own strength never dropped though, which makes it all the more strange that I can detect a slight degree of atrophy. As far as my exercise selection (rope pressdowns, in skull crushers with 2 DB’s), I always chose movements which would allow both arms to work equally, as opposed to BB movements where sometimes one side can dominate.

If I recall correctly, when Ronnie Coleman injured his lat, he didn’t have any strength loss either, but the physical appearance certainly changed as time went on (similar to what I’ve got here). I may have to broach the possibility of a nerve impingement to my brother, maybe incorporate some soft tissue work on a regular basis… What was your corrective approach like?

S

682

Hmmm, I’d love to hear more about this.

I have my own tricep issues. I broke my left forearm in college (13 years ago) and had my arm in a cast for several months, naturally, that arm atrophied during that time. However, ever since, the long head of my left tricep has appeared visibly shorter than my right long head. It really sucks, I try doing extra sets of OH DB ext for my left arm to target the long head, but it never made a difference, to this day, it is still very much visibly smaller.

683

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Very interesting to consider. My own strength never dropped though, which makes it all the more strange that I can detect a slight degree of atrophy. As far as my exercise selection (rope pressdowns, in skull crushers with 2 DB’s), I always chose movements which would allow both arms to work equally, as opposed to BB movements where sometimes one side can dominate. If I recall correctly, when Ronnie Coleman injured his lat, he didn’t have any strength loss either, but the physical appearance certainly changed as time went on (similar to what I’ve got here). I may have to broach the possibility of a nerve impingement to my brother, maybe incorporate some soft tissue work on a regular basis… What was your corrective approach like?
S[/quote]
I think it’s worth asking your brother about, espeacialy if you are having symptoms you haven’t told him about.
I really only noticed the weakness in my tri when I did overhead extensions. I was still strong on bb press and I only had to stop db presses because of my forearm/grip. I think I was able to compensate with other muscles without noticing noticing on bb presses.

To tell you the truth only went to the physio twice because I couldn’t really afford it. I just followed his advice on massaging the tight muscles (I used a golf all and leaned against it on a wall) and stretching. I also started doing face pulls more consistently for the external rotation.
For me the best thing for it was to stop playing rugby, I guess I was lucky because it was easy to pin point the activity which was causing the problem.

684

Also I figured the problem with my tri was more due to poor activation rather than atrophy. Although it did look a bit smaller and like I said before the medial edge of the long head was soft when the rest was pumped.
Anyway what I did for that was to hit it as directly as I could. I would do very light sets of db overhead extensions a couple of times a week really focusing on trying to squeeze that little bit which wasn’t working. I would perform the concentric explosively but pause and hold the contraction at the top for a second.

I’m not sure if any of this will help in your situation but it is something to consider.
You mentioned that the forearm thing started after your comps this year, was there any big changes in your training? New exercises, higher volume or frequency? Or maybe somthi g outside the gym. Those things can cause an overuse injury and the real issue might be further up the chain from where the pain is.

685

Well, I’ve been trying to do a bit more stretching, and even some self massage along the full length of the triceps muscle (as much of it as I can realistically access). It certainly feels good (sort of like foam rolling, but making use of the support bars for various machines in the gym, and putting all my weight against the back of my arm while I shift around a bit - imagine a bear scratching his back on a tree! -lol). I’m keeping the few easy sets of overhead rope extensions just for the left arm after one of my chest sessions, and it doesn’t seem to be hindering anything at all. Still hitting legs and chest each twice every 6 days, and I don’t know if it’s my imagination, but the arm doesn’t seem as disproportionate as it did last week. I guess I’ll just keep my eye on it, and keep up with everything I’m doing to bring it back to where I need it to be (and not reinjure it in the process,… I still don’t feel 100%, and it does get a little ‘tweaky’ if I’m not careful).

When I next see my bro, I’ll try a little muscle stim and see how things feel (I have a small unit in my apt, but it’s a lower level unit, more for ‘pain management’,… not sure how useful it’d be).

S

686

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Yates always said that no matter what you do, your body just can’t put on more than 2-3 lbs of muscle per month (and that’s in an ideal environment), no matter how much you eat. Of course some people don’t realize how much 3 lbs of muscle can dramatically affect your physique when you’re at a low bodyfat percentage, so they get into all this insane bulking nonsense. I’m not advocating undereating mind you, I truly believe most people don’t eat enough, but there is a line where you’re just being silly, and not productive.

S[/quote]

I just want to say, quote for the mother fuckin’ truth!

Good post.

687

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Doyle wrote:
Wow stu it is kind of creepy how similar our injuries have been.
I kind of eluded to it earlier in the thread but I pretty much had some bad issues with my left forarm/elbow that seemed like some kind of RSI (muscle pain and greatly weakend grip).
As it progressed I started getting wrist drop on DB pressing movements and the long head of my tri was weaker and “softer” when pumped.

I went to the physio and he though it was a nerve impingment around the brachial plexus due to my trap, neck and shoulder muscles growing and getting really tight from playing my first season in the front row in rugby. luckily my season has finished and things turned around really quickly so I’m pretty much full strength on everything bar overhead db estensions.

Sorry for the massive post in your thread but when you said your triceps is getting smaller I thought you might need to start thinking about if its nerve related as well.
Doyle[/quote]

Very interesting to consider. My own strength never dropped though, which makes it all the more strange that I can detect a slight degree of atrophy. As far as my exercise selection (rope pressdowns, in skull crushers with 2 DB’s), I always chose movements which would allow both arms to work equally, as opposed to BB movements where sometimes one side can dominate.

If I recall correctly, when Ronnie Coleman injured his lat, he didn’t have any strength loss either, but the physical appearance certainly changed as time went on (similar to what I’ve got here). I may have to broach the possibility of a nerve impingement to my brother, maybe incorporate some soft tissue work on a regular basis… What was your corrective approach like?

S[/quote]

Coleman’s strength got progressively worse though, no?

Anyway, that kind of nerve issue with the triceps and lat isn’t as uncommon as one might think… People tend to sleep on the side a lot (many find it hard to fall asleep or stay asleep on their backs it seems, and lying on your stomach can be really awkward if you don’t get creative with the use of your pillows… Twist the spine, too)… That can mess you up badly even if you don’t weigh a lot… I can’t do it, couldn’t ever since I hit 170 or so and my shoulders started showing basically :wink:

So thing is… A really good mattress is a must, plus lots of pillows (many don’t seem to want to make the effort, including my parents…) and finding the right position to sleep in…
Else this shit just likes to creep up on you…

Of course yours might still be lifting-related or due to some muscle-tightness, but it pays to stay on the safe side when it comes to how you sleep in addition to whatever else you do to fix the issue.

688

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Yates always said that no matter what you do, your body just can’t put on more than 2-3 lbs of muscle per month (and that’s in an ideal environment), no matter how much you eat. Of course some people don’t realize how much 3 lbs of muscle can dramatically affect your physique when you’re at a low bodyfat percentage, so they get into all this insane bulking nonsense. I’m not advocating undereating mind you, I truly believe most people don’t eat enough, but there is a line where you’re just being silly, and not productive.

S[/quote]

I just want to say, quote for the mother fuckin’ truth!

Good post.[/quote]

Good post indeed! 2-3 pounds of muscle added to a body at a low bodyfat percentage dramatically changes the way you look. Many people don’t realize that. I believe, many bodybuilders, especially youngsters, go way overboard when it comes to bulking - as a consequence of the idea that you have to gain 20 or so pounds to change the way they look. What happens very often, is, that guys bulk up and get way to fat and then lose all the new gained muscle while dieting. This seems to be true for natural bodybuilders at least.
I did the same when I was younger. Nowadays I don’t go very much higher than contest weight in the off-season. 15 pounds at most, often only 10 pounds or less.
Firstly, I don’t think this interferes with muscle growth as long as peri-workout nutriton is optimal. I believe recruitment of satellite cells is not triggered by a caloric surplus. Secondly, it takes me much less time to get in contest shape. I can be ready for the stage in 3 to 6 weeks, which means that I can keep most or all of my muscle mass and won’t diet off what I have gained in the off-season.

689

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Yates always said that no matter what you do, your body just can’t put on more than 2-3 lbs of muscle per month (and that’s in an ideal environment), no matter how much you eat. Of course some people don’t realize how much 3 lbs of muscle can dramatically affect your physique when you’re at a low bodyfat percentage, so they get into all this insane bulking nonsense. I’m not advocating undereating mind you, I truly believe most people don’t eat enough, but there is a line where you’re just being silly, and not productive.

S[/quote]

I just want to say, quote for the mother fuckin’ truth!

Good post.[/quote]

Yes sir!

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692

[quote]Am14g08 wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Yates always said that no matter what you do, your body just can’t put on more than 2-3 lbs of muscle per month (and that’s in an ideal environment), no matter how much you eat.
S[/quote]

I have same problem. I’d bet a lot of money your hip bones are narrower than mine though.

My Shoudlers and hip bones are wide… I natrually look like a box, or a letter X, one or the other. I will agree to disagree about the yates line though… If you think gaining 3lbs of muscle a month is the limit… then it will be…

I fully reckon that a year from now I can hit 240-250 at 10% bodyfat or less. You can all hold me to that. I’d need to gain about 32lbs of lean bodymass to make that happen … and then lose 10-15lbs of fat. I think I can do it.[/quote]

I fully reckon that you are a newb.
Put in hard work in the kitchen and in the gym for a year…

…THEN tell us about your “thoughts” about training and show us evidence of you gaining 30+ lbs of muscle in a year and being 5’10" 250 @10% after training for one year…

693

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Yates always said that no matter what you do, your body just can’t put on more than 2-3 lbs of muscle per month (and that’s in an ideal environment), no matter how much you eat. Of course some people don’t realize how much 3 lbs of muscle can dramatically affect your physique when you’re at a low bodyfat percentage, so they get into all this insane bulking nonsense. I’m not advocating undereating mind you, I truly believe most people don’t eat enough, but there is a line where you’re just being silly, and not productive .

S[/quote]

I just want to say, quote for the mother truckin’ truth!

Good post.[/quote]

QFT x 2

694

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Coleman’s strength got progressively worse though, no?

Anyway, that kind of nerve issue with the triceps and lat isn’t as uncommon as one might think… People tend to sleep on the side a lot (many find it hard to fall asleep or stay asleep on their backs it seems, and lying on your stomach can be really awkward if you don’t get creative with the use of your pillows… Twist the spine, too)… That can mess you up badly even if you don’t weigh a lot… I can’t do it, couldn’t ever since I hit 170 or so and my shoulders started showing basically :wink:

So thing is… A really good mattress is a must, plus lots of pillows (many don’t seem to want to make the effort, including my parents…) and finding the right position to sleep in…
Else this shit just likes to creep up on you…

Of course yours might still be lifting-related or due to some muscle-tightness, but it pays to stay on the safe side when it comes to how you sleep in addition to whatever else you do to fix the issue.
[/quote]

I don’t think his strength dropped… I recall him saying that he never had any indication that there was anything amiss until he started dieting down, and then the slight degree of atrophy became evident. The sleeping issue was a thread a while back, which I have heard of before with some individuals who develope in certain areas that seems to put uneven stress or pressure on their necks, which I know can lead to pain in various extremeties as a result.

Personally, I can’t sleep on my left side, haven’t been able to in years. Not sure if it’s just an issue with my shoulder or what, but it’s never affected my training, so I just deal with it (and my girlfriend knows that she can’t switch sides of the bed with me!)

Hopefully I can get some soft tissue work done and just lossen things up. I’m also thinking that an entire week off from training altogether might be a nice break before possibly jumping into another contest prep in January.

S

695

[quote]Am14g08 wrote:
. I will agree to disagree about the yates line though… If you think gaining 3lbs of muscle a month is the limit… then it will be…

I fully reckon that a year from now I can hit 240-250 at 10% bodyfat or less. You can all hold me to that. I’d need to gain about 32lbs of lean bodymass to make that happen … and then lose 10-15lbs of fat. I think I can do it.[/quote]

As much as I am usually the first one to come down on people who set self imposed limits, biology is not self imposed. The body can only synthesize new proteins as a certain rate, no matter how good your genetics may be. What Yates was saying was that anything gained above a certain rate, will be adipose, no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise.

The only benefit of overeating, and ‘bulking’ a bit, is that the added weight usually allows you to handle heavier loads, and thus creates the opportunity to stimulate more growth via proper training. This however is a concept that gets lost on most trainees.

My youngest brother was very VERY thin when he was younger. He played many sports and was Captain of several varsity teams in high school. His metabolism was also through the damn roof. His first year training (with me supervising his gym work, diet, supps, everything), he put on 30 lbs on the scale - I think he was about 18-19 at the time.

Obviously the whole ‘newbie gains’ argument factored in, but still, it wasn’t all muscle… mostly, but not all. So it is without a doubt possible to gain from the onset at what most would consider an accelerated pace, but remember that this pace will not keep up forever, and that’s when you actually have to learn more about training and nutrition in order to keep progressing.

S

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@Stu
Just a wild guess, here, but have you checked your subcapularis for tightness / trigger points?

@Am14g08
Dude, I think you’ve convinced most people posting here that you’ve got a very good disposition for building strength. And I’ll be very surprised if you won’t be able to display a very impressive physique after your first training year.

I don’t see why you need to proclaim that general rules of thumb don’t apply to you, though.

First, I don’t think Yates quote should be applied to newbies. You are a newbie (at least you said you are).

Second, with your strength levels, I don’t even see why you bother with rules of thumb. Rules of thumb are mainly geared towards the norm, not to exceptions. You seem to be exceptionally strong.
You know it. We know it. So, why the redundancy (don’t answer that, let’s not detract from the main discussion)?

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699

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Am14g08 wrote:
. I will agree to disagree about the yates line though… If you think gaining 3lbs of muscle a month is the limit… then it will be…

I fully reckon that a year from now I can hit 240-250 at 10% bodyfat or less. You can all hold me to that. I’d need to gain about 32lbs of lean bodymass to make that happen … and then lose 10-15lbs of fat. I think I can do it.[/quote]

As much as I am usually the first one to come down on people who set self imposed limits, biology is not self imposed. The body can only synthesize new proteins as a certain rate, no matter how good your genetics may be. What Yates was saying was that anything gained above a certain rate, will be adipose, no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise.

The only benefit of overeating, and ‘bulking’ a bit, is that the added weight usually allows you to handle heavier loads, and thus creates the opportunity to stimulate more growth via proper training. This however is a concept that gets lost on most trainees.

My youngest brother was very VERY thin when he was younger. He played many sports and was Captain of several varsity teams in high school. His metabolism was also through the damn roof. His first year training (with me supervising his gym work, diet, supps, everything), he put on 30 lbs on the scale - I think he was about 18-19 at the time.

Obviously the whole ‘newbie gains’ argument factored in, but still, it wasn’t all muscle… mostly, but not all. So it is without a doubt possible to gain from the onset at what most would consider an accelerated pace, but remember that this pace will not keep up forever, and that’s when you actually have to learn more about training and nutrition in order to keep progressing.

S[/quote]

Hey Stu,

What are your thoughts about Darryl gaining 18 lbs of muscles in the short amount of time he had?

700

[quote]FattyFat wrote:
@Stu
Just a wild guess, here, but have you checked your subcapularis for tightness / trigger points?
[/quote]

Gonna train with my Brother on Sunday, so after I rework his diet for him, we’ll focus on my accumulating injuries -lol. The next 6 weeks will pretty much determine whether I compete in the Spring. I’ve been pretty good training around my lower back issues, and while my knees have felt a bit wobbly this year, I’ve slowed my reps, shortened my ROM (eliminated the top part), and upper the reps, which I feel is helping a lot,… but the real issue is how much my left arm will come back into balance with my right.

Once they’re pumped (right after a session), you can’t tell there was an injury, so I do believe this is feasible. Still, time will tell,I’m going to be 38 next May, and I’ve been training pretty hard for a long while now. As much as I could just ‘retire’ from competition (with a 1st place win in each show), I still feel like I’ve got a little more left… here’s hoping.

S