Split/Training Routine for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Bigger Stronger Leaner Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
21

Just reread this entire thread and my posts/answers on stress management, nutrition and sleep. You will have 90% of your questions answered afterwards.

In regards to nutrition I do want to mention that minimizing gluten, eggs and dairy consumption can work wonders for your chronic fatigue. These compounds are usually not problematic by themselves (not taking into consideration celiac disease or lactose intolerance fyi), it’s the Epstein barr virus that’s causing trouble. It feeds on these compounds and creates neurotoxins and dermatoxins in the process. When these neurotoxins attach to your neurons and start oxidizing, they can shortcircuit them, resulting in compromised neurotransmitter production and transmission.

Instead, bring more fruits, vegetables, herbs/spices and wild foods into your diet to support serotonin production, reduce cortisol/adrenaline output and restock neurons with material for neurotransmitter production and transmission (fruits and vegetables are packed with vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients that neutralize harmful toxins, reduce inflammation and act as cofactors or co-enzymes in the production of neurotransmitters. They also provide electrolytes like sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium which are absolutely critical for neurotransmission (refer to action potential via sodium potassiump pump).

It probably isn’t. Normally I’d recommend a diet break of 2 weeks minimum, even longer if you have been dieting for 12+ weeks and if your weight keeps going down. Under normal conditions, your weight starts stabilizing within 2-3 weeks. After that, you should be good to start a new cycle of fatloss (if you need it), maintain your current weight or start eating in a surplus to grow muscle and enhance recovery.

Eating in a caloric deficit is imposing stress on your body. Sleep deprivation, not feeling well or not feeling like yourself, having high cortisol levels are all signs that you need to take a break. There’s a time and place for cutting but it’s far from ideal when you are physically and mentally stressed out. Believe me, I’ve been there. It’s not fun or effective at all.

You should actually deload during your diet break. That’s a good combination to enhance recovery. Eating more nutritious food and reducing overall training volume will help you get better. Work on your sleep too. Try to view the low solar angels (sunrise and sunset) during the day. This will help stabilize your circadian rhythm and reduce the negative effects of evening blue light exposure. Eat your last meal 3 hours or more before bedtime. Stay consistent with your sleep schedule. 30 minutes deviation from your usual wake and sleep times and the occasional late night out is fine but no more than that until you start to feel better. Don’t underestimate the power of a supportive, fun social environment. Spending quality time with friends and famlily is very good for stress management.

Ultimately I look at this way: you can eat well, sleep well and train smart but when you are dealing with issues on a subconscious level that cause you stress, you need to figure that out and fix it as soon as possible. Diet, sleep and exercise will support you but they are not enough to get rid of chronic stress/fatigue IF you are dealing with lots of mental stress. Even if you’re not stressed out psychologically, the physiological stress you impose on your body also affects your nervous system. When the nervous system is taxed too hard, problems start to arise. Deloading and a diet break are surely the right actions to take at that point.

22

Feedback: After deloading (almost no training) for two weeks,…

I implemented all points:

  1. 2x/Week full body 15 sets/Workout, full rest, RIR 2-3.
  2. 3x/Week aerobic <35 min.
  3. meditation at morning, autogenic training at evening, less screen time and more posture training, sleep hygiene, light therapy at morning, sometimes sauna.
  4. no cut, maintenance calorie. I am just trying to expriment with food allergy
  5. i do take antidepressant (SSRI, sertralin) because of my illness. I try to get Low Dose Naltrexone from my doctor, as there are several case reports (e.g. on reddit)
  6. maybe i should cut caffeine, though its to hard an mostly impossible for me (cortisol at morning too high)

I dont know how much this helps, maybe just a little bit or nothing at all- but after 15 years with this illness, there is no something new. And i tried everything out there.

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@Tcrazyjam You are well on your way to better recovery, just hang in there and extend the deload for 2-3 more weeks until you feel better. 4-6 weeks of reduced training is nothing in a lifetime. I know it is frustrating when the tiredness or loss of motivation just doesn’t seem to go away but this is a two steps forward, one step back process. Just stay the course.

I would also encourage you to eat mainly whole foods and hydrate properly for as long as needed until you start to feel better.

Reread the following: In regards to nutrition I do want to mention that minimizing gluten, eggs and dairy consumption can work wonders for your chronic fatigue. These compounds are usually not problematic by themselves (not taking into consideration celiac disease or lactose intolerance fyi), it’s the Epstein barr virus that’s causing trouble. It feeds on these compounds and creates neurotoxins and dermatoxins in the process. When these neurotoxins attach to your neurons and start oxidizing, they can shortcircuit them, resulting in compromised neurotransmitter production and transmission.

Instead, bring more fruits, vegetables, herbs/spices and wild foods into your diet to support serotonin production, reduce cortisol/adrenaline output and restock neurons with material for neurotransmitter production and transmission (fruits and vegetables are packed with vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients that neutralize harmful toxins, reduce inflammation and act as cofactors or co-enzymes in the production of neurotransmitters. They also provide electrolytes like sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium which are absolutely critical for neurotransmission (refer to action potential via sodium potassiump pump).

By the way, if you’re skeptical about the correlation between Epstein barr, food and its effects on your body than that is perfectly OK. Simply the act of eating whole, unprocessed, vitamin/mineral rich foods is a big step in the right direction and will be beneficial for your health in the short, medium and long term. The main treatment for Epstein Barr in modern medicine is also to get plenty of rest. So you might want to do more of that as well until your symptoms subside.

24

Can you give me a source for that what you said (eppstein barr feeds on these compounds)? To elliminate milk products is the toughest point for me, since my calcium level in blood was at the bottom end in the past. I still want to take my Whey-Protein. So maybe you could provide me information and i will experiment with your advice for several weeks!

The important note is the deload length. It needs to be deload no complete training break? In the past deload meant stress to, allthough intensity was -50%. And of course what happens to my muscle mass? Will i lose something in 6 Weeks of deloading?

And also i need to know how often i have to deload in an year? Maybe you can give me advice to the second point esp. because it has the most impact on stress/Illness.

25

Well, my non scientifically proven source for that is Medical Medium.

Yes, Anthony William is not a licensed doctor. Yes, I too am annoyed when he’s mumbling on about Spirit or whenever he says that medical research or modern medicine is not yet aware of the knowledge he’s providing in his books/podcast. But I was able to look past that because the actual information he provides on nutrients, harmful compounds and how to optimize your health has proven very useful for me to get a better understanding of the relationship between food and bodily functions.

The source material I have from courses on nutrition and training that I enrolled in (these courses were given by licensed professionals) alongside the source material from MM enabled me to make new, exciting associations between food, training, sleep and stress management. I read his books and took out what made sense to me, partially based on what I had learned previously from these other sources. But I was also open and willing to try some of his recommendations and got good results out of it.

There are lots of foods that help alleviate symptoms or improve recovery when you’re dealing with a disease or physical/psychological ailment(s). On the other hand there are also lots of foods that seem to make it worse. You don’t have to be super smart or a scientist to realize that unprocessed foods are better for you and your health than processed ones. I read his books with the intent of selecting or avoiding certain foods to target specific disfunctions within my own body because he basically sums up what nutrients are in what type of fruit, vegetable, potato, grain etc and how they can be beneficial to alleviate your symptoms.

You can easily fullfill your calcium needs with leafy greens, cruciferous vegetables, nuts, oranges, tangerines, figs, beans, lentils, chicken breast, anchovy etc. You don’t need to eat dairy to get enough calcium from your diet. You can if you want to. I also still use Whey protein every now and then, just not as often as I used to.

You could try and experiment by lowering you dairy, eggs and gluten intake for a week or 2 and see what happens. Just because something has not been scientifically proven, doesn’t automatically mean it’s ineffective. I’m a big proponent of science but I also realize that in order for a claim to be studied and proven effective there needs to be enough interest and funding from the government and big corporations.

How long you should deload is highly personal. When you’re dealing with an excessive amount of fatigue it is generally a good idea to extent the deload and focus on maximizing recovery. When after a couple weeks you’re still far from being recovered, then I would actually consider that as a clue that you’re dealing with a deeper issue that is preventing you from recovering. The training regimen is no longer the problem but it does aggravate it. Therefore deloading can help enhance recovery in whatever it is you’re struggling with. In the worst case you might need to completely halt your training and focus solely on rest in order to get better. How long? I can’t tell, again because it is a personal issue.

You can maintain muscle mass and strength with minimal volume and frequency as long as the sets are intense enough (1-2 reps shy of failure). If you don’t train at all than you will probably start to lose muscle and strength after 2-3 weeks. But look at the big picture here. When you’re able to recover from your health issues, the strength and muscle that you lost will be regained quicker than what you are trying to build right now in a fatigued state.

In general, a deload usually takes place after a program has been completed (which is normally about 12 weeks). However, some programs require more frequent deloads because they are so demanding or because you want to keep your body sensitive to the adaptations you’re imposing on it. For this reason a deload week might occur every 4 weeks instead of every 12 weeks. Your physiological and mental state (aka how stressed you are or how much stress you are imposing on your body) also might require more frequent deloads from training.

I wish I could give you the perfect answer but it really is a personal thing.

26

Thank you from heart.

Now i am extremly stressed, fatigued, have pain and much things to do. I will think about all what you wrote and just do the things what i have said. So i have a profound answer/posting but it takes time until i have energy, motivation and a clear mind. I take your comments very serious and reread your postings several times and work with it.

27

Take all the time you need and make adjustments at your own pace when you are ready for it, that’s extremely important.

Don’t rush yourself into doing things you can’t handle mentally or physically at the moment.

Recovering from fatigue, brain fog, lethargy like symptoms is no joke and it takes a serious toll on people mentally as well because it feels like you’re losing control over yourself, maybe even your life.

Just take it one day at a time and work on getting a little bit better, even if it seems trivial. The compounding effect is there though.

Best of luck in your efforts to get well.

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I did not meditate today - i will do it + go to teeth doctor after it. I try to deligate, since i seem to be worcaholic sometimes. I know its poison.

Next week i have an appointment at another doc. I ask him for Low dose Naltrexone
I a study of over 100 persons with cfs it helped 75%. But its off label - in germany its very difficult. I think he will say no. But i try.

If you interested in it, i can provide you the study link

29

Thanks but no, I’m more of a no pills, natural solutions guy :slight_smile:

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1.) I think i react best to 4 weeks training/1 week off. It try it first and adjust

2.) I ate junk last days and feel sick. Before i ate non processed food incl. eggs, meat, fish, milk products and just feel fine, if i do carb cycling (just as how i feel), without plan. So lowcarb days helped me a lot. Nov/Dec i ate vegan + fish, but my conditon got more worse.

Update:

My condition is worse now. I have much pain in the back, and feel fatigue. I try to do cardio right now, but i dont feel so - but i look how my body react to it (and write a diary regularily). I did many thinks succesfully (medical solutions). I try to get back to my nutrition baseline.

31

My Last workout was before 1 week. I do TaeBo Aerobic, and its the only cardio which gives Energy boost. I did IT right now and thought to rest weight Lifting for another two weeks and do TaeBo 3*/week. What do you think?

And i did Take Creatin, should i Stop or Take IT?
:slight_smile:

32

I have no idea what TaeBo Aerobic is but if you feel good on it I see no reason why you should swap that out for another form of cardio.

You can keep using creatine year round if you want to, it’s not harmful and one of the most researched supplements out there. In fact, creatine has been shown to support cognitive function so supplementing with it might prove useful in your condition. 3-5 grams per day is enough.

You don’t have to use it though. It’s not magical, the benefits are small and Creatine has become a bit expensive.

33

I have a very good question to you.

First i have to say i make great great Progress on my health issue. First time in 15yo i believe i can completly heal. Several intelligent Treatment and i am proud of me :slight_smile: for example do you know blueblock glasses, IT makes me tired and sleepy at night. My sleep becomes so deep…Software is Not AS so good.

I want to share with you, because you Help me a Lot. And he ITS Natural

My question can i do Just 1 top Set going slightly below failure or rpr 9.5? Volume is exhausting. Heck, Stress begins by set 2.

So Hit Training with two whole Body Lifts? I want to do it maybe for 3 -6 months, to give my Body a Chance to completly heal.

But i want to maintain my muscle, i will be 40 this year, and lose muscle easily because of my age. No calorie deficit. Is this possible? The best Damn workout is similar, but i dont Like to train that often. Its risky for cns

34

Sure, if you precede this top set with two gradually heavier warmup sets (like RPE 7-8) to accumulate enough effective reps for growth.

If you simply want to maintain what you have than sure, one top set is enough. Maintaining muscle is a lot easier than building it, despite the age thing. The only condition is that you train at least 2x per week and hard enough so taking a muscle close to failure is actually a great stimulus to maintain muscle, If you don’t overdo it on the volume.

That’s why for fatloss or muscle maintenance a low volume, high intensity workout will work fine.

Don’t get it twisted though, cns (and by extent peripheral fatigue) also occur with failure sets because the effort is much higher than a normal set.

Creating cns and peripheral fatigue should also be seen as a natural part of the workout, not a problem. CNS fatigue is not long lasting, recovery happens pretty fast. Peripheral fatigue can take longer, especially when your muscles or motor neurons have not recovered well. IF you are an older individual and stressed often I’d stear clear from workouts that create a lot of muscle damage (6-10 reps with normal tempos) and do more work in the higher rep ranges (10-12 & 12-15 even up to 20 for smaller muscle groups). This will create more muscle fatigue than damage which is also a great growth stimulus and easier to recover from. The higher reps sets that last longer initiate the accumulation of lactate and growth factors, another growth stimulus and inhibitor of myostatin (limits how much muscle you can build) through the action of follistatin.

Ultimately I’d say pick the style of training you are the most motivated to do and stick with it if it feels good. Low motivation when training can also induce cns fatigue because the training itself creates mental stress because you’d rather use a different approach.

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GREAT ANSWER TO REP RANGE. WILL DO IT. THANKS <3

ok, just theoretically: Will i lose much muscle mass if id train just 1 fullbody workout a week with 1 top sets (2 heavy warmup sets). Slight caloriesurplus.

and length 4-6 months.

I think i will be super motivated when i am super fresh and do progress overloading as f…

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It’s highly likely that you will lose mass with such a low training frequency, especially when prolonged for 4-6 months.

I can’t guarantee it because that’s impossible but I would never recommend training only once a week. To me that’s a complete waste of time.

When you train 2x/week, you will always have 2-3 complete rest days in between. If that’s not enough time for you to recover, then training is not the issue.

37

Well, maybe not.

Size and strength can be maintained with 1/3 of the average of the previous period. So if the amount of work done on that one day is roughly 1/3 of what he had been doing, he can maintain size and strength. At least for 3 months.

A study looked at a maintenance load of 1 whole-body workout per week with soccer players and they were able to maintain the size and strength they gained during the off-season period. Now, they obviously were very active with their practices and games, so one could argue that it helped maintain lower body muscle mass, or we could make the opposite argument that the very volume of low-intensity work might have increased the risk of muscle loss.

I would personally think that it’s not the once-a-week thing that would be detrimental but the combination of low frequency and very low volume (1 set per muscle/exercise).

2 Likes
38

Thanks for sharing, perhaps I jumped the gun on that one a bit.

However, I’m also taking this guy’s stress profile into consideration. Given the explanation of the symptoms he’s experiencing and how he’s reacting to his current training, It seems likely to me that he’s having issues with the dopaminergic and adrenergic systems, caused by a chronic elevation of cortisol.

Like you’ve taught me so well, when cortisol is chronically elevated is it hard to build muscle. Maintaining is easier if the proper training stimulus is given but he still has a greater chance of losing more muscle than the average Joe who isn’t suffering from chronic fatigue symptoms.

I’ll admit that being in a caloric surplus might work in his favor, especially if carb intake and stress management strategies are accounted for. But in my personal opinion, when your only sport is strength training and all you do for the rest of the week is sitting/walking, I doubt if anyone in this scenario is going to be able to maintain strength and size for longer than 3 weeks.

I would like to argue that soccer is still a sport where players are highly dependent on their FT muscle fibers to perform alongside the ST and intermediate fibers. Being able to move/run the entire game without gassing out is one important condition but so is being able to jump, sprint and turn at high velocities on demand, which requires the FT fibers to kick in and do work.

I’m not disagreeing with you, I just think it is context dependent.

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Sry to state clear, i will lift twice, but it seems to be Low Volume too, more then 1/3. Since i have fatigue, i am not very active at all, but Chances are that my Body will heal 30-50% in the next months. But i do Not want to disturb healing process.

And full Body sucks psychologicilly, but it seems to be the smartest solution though i am Not motivated Like Push/pull or your damn program i tried 2016-2018, i forgot. Long time

And i thought the Same, chronic elevated Cortisol and i tried everything, going quit high Volume, more frequency, Low Volume, other Programms etc. Tricks blabla. No Change in muscle Mass since years.

It doesnt Matter how much Volume or what i do. Im not Sure, thats what i feel. Work does Not matter.

Imunsystem eats Protein.

But of course No Training isnt a good solution. So maybe basics and Low Volume. Nothing to say

40

First day on naltroxen, toooo much energy. I lift and see how body responds, to rest and meditate - parasympaticus.

Maybe stress hormones like adrenaline, I am restless.

If good sleep, IT means Natural energy