Split Question and Layer System

[Akidara]

Hello,

I follow the layer principles and my goal is the power look. But I am not sure what an ideal split look like.
My "problem " is my squat day… They hit my body very hard and I have problems with my sghp layer 2 days after… So I am unsure what’s a good approache…

1. Sghp
2. Push Press
3. Squat
4. Bench press
5. Sghp + deadlifts
   6.push press

That was my old split, now if I make at day 5 not taining and at 6 a " back day" and 7 is no training?

I have read somewhere here, that you (CT) said for squat strength something like: 70% 2*5 at the beginning of every training and in the end 50% 10 reps. Can I make that and leave my squat day out…?

Another question… Why do I lose so fast squat strength ? For example if I don’t squat 1-2 weeks my squats are even weaker than before (125kg 1rm, 1week 110kg..)
What are long legs and what’s a short torso? It looks for me so normal
I had problems with my wirst at the bench press, after I stopped my forearm training with a worst roller. Is there a connection?

Thanks for reading:)

[Colbstar]

You could try front squatting instead. For me personally, taking out back squats completely and focusing on front squats has been one of the best exercise decisions I’ve made to date. It is less stressful overall because you’ll most likely use less weight than you can back squat.

Another point: you are already hitting your posterior chain pretty hard with high pulls twice a week and deadlifts on day 5. Front squatting, by nature of the lift, is much more quad dominant and might be better for overall development.

My third and final point: not everyone is the same, but I have a ridiculously short torso and very long arms (30 inch arms and 30 inch torso based on a measurement template that I honestly can’t remember from elitefts.com). So you might be in the same boat as me when it comes to lift choices. The main lifts I focus on pretty much what you’re doing but I’m using the Front Squat instead of the Back Squat.

Hope this helps!

• Colby

[Akidara]

Oh thanks colbie can someone elaborate on not having a squat day? And can someone explain his strategy with 70% and 50% for squats ?

To colbie: I never have done front squats… I know squats are very important for strength in general, I also thought back squats are the key and front squats more like an assistance exercise. Is there a carry over to backs squats? For example if I make only front squats will my back squat stay the same or even improve ?

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Akidara wrote:
Hello,

I follow the layer principles and my goal is the power look. But I am not sure what an ideal split look like.
My "problem " is my squat day… They hit my body very hard and I have problems with my sghp layer 2 days after… So I am unsure what’s a good approache…

1. Sghp
2. Push Press
3. Squat
4. Bench press
5. Sghp + deadlifts
   6.push press

That was my old split, now if I make at day 5 not taining and at 6 a " back day" and 7 is no training?

I have read somewhere here, that you (CT) said for squat strength something like: 70% 2*5 at the beginning of every training and in the end 50% 10 reps. Can I make that and leave my squat day out…?

Another question… Why do I lose so fast squat strength ? For example if I don’t squat 1-2 weeks my squats are even weaker than before (125kg 1rm, 1week 110kg…)
What are long legs and what’s a short torso? It looks for me so normal
I had problems with my wirst at the bench press, after I stopped my forearm training with a worst roller. Is there a connection?

Thanks for reading:)[/quote]

You could use a periodized scheme for the squat, which you would do on your SGHP days (after the pulls).

Week 1: Day 1: 80% 5 x 4 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 2: Day 1: 80% 5 x 5 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 3: Day 1: 80% 5 x 6 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 4: Day 1: 85% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 85% 3 x 2
Week 5: Day 1: 90% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 6: Day 1: 95% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 7: Day 1: 100% 3 x 2 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 8: Day 1: 100% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 80% 3 x 2
Week 9: Test max

Note that percentages use your pre-cycle training max, it is not adjusted from week to week.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Akidara wrote:
Oh thanks colbie can someone elaborate on not having a squat day? And can someone explain his strategy with 70% and 50% for squats ?

To colbie: I never have done front squats… I know squats are very important for strength in general, I also thought back squats are the key and front squats more like an assistance exercise. Is there a carry over to backs squats? For example if I make only front squats will my back squat stay the same or even improve ?[/quote]

It depends… for olympic lifters the front squat is a main strength movement. Bulgarian do a lot more front squatting that back squattting.

Will the front squat make your back squat go up if you don’t back squat? Maybe maybe not… if you have short limbs and a long torso, it probably wont help much. Those with longer legs might benefit from a specialization on front squats because they will hit their quads a lot more than back squats.

Also, from my experience, if you switch to front squats but do not do any deadlifting your back squat wont go up much.

[Akidara]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Akidara wrote:
Hello,

I follow the layer principles and my goal is the power look. But I am not sure what an ideal split look like.
My "problem " is my squat day… They hit my body very hard and I have problems with my sghp layer 2 days after… So I am unsure what’s a good approache…

1. Sghp
2. Push Press
3. Squat
4. Bench press
5. Sghp + deadlifts
   6.push press

That was my old split, now if I make at day 5 not taining and at 6 a " back day" and 7 is no training?

I have read somewhere here, that you (CT) said for squat strength something like: 70% 2*5 at the beginning of every training and in the end 50% 10 reps. Can I make that and leave my squat day out…?

Another question… Why do I lose so fast squat strength ? For example if I don’t squat 1-2 weeks my squats are even weaker than before (125kg 1rm, 1week 110kg…)
What are long legs and what’s a short torso? It looks for me so normal
I had problems with my wirst at the bench press, after I stopped my forearm training with a worst roller. Is there a connection?

Thanks for reading:)[/quote]

You could use a periodized scheme for the squat, which you would do on your SGHP days (after the pulls).

Week 1: Day 1: 80% 5 x 4 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 2: Day 1: 80% 5 x 5 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 3: Day 1: 80% 5 x 6 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 4: Day 1: 85% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 85% 3 x 2
Week 5: Day 1: 90% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 6: Day 1: 95% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 7: Day 1: 100% 3 x 2 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 8: Day 1: 100% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 80% 3 x 2
Week 9: Test max

Note that percentages use your pre-cycle training max, it is not adjusted from week to week.[/quote]

Oh thank you Christian Thibaudeau, I will follow your squat scheme!!!
My split will look like:
Day1:SGHP + squats
Day2:push press
Day3:SGHP + squats
Day4:bench press
Day5:SGHP + deadlifts
Day6: push press
Day7: /

Is that fine ?

Another short question… I make the max muscle layer for 6weeks, what’s my next “step”? 6 weeks strenght layer or 2 weeks recovery training and than my stenght layer ?

Thanks for reading and especially answering.

[Akidara]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Akidara wrote:
Oh thanks colbie can someone elaborate on not having a squat day? And can someone explain his strategy with 70% and 50% for squats ?

To colbie: I never have done front squats… I know squats are very important for strength in general, I also thought back squats are the key and front squats more like an assistance exercise. Is there a carry over to backs squats? For example if I make only front squats will my back squat stay the same or even improve ?[/quote]

It depends… for olympic lifters the front squat is a main strength movement. Bulgarian do a lot more front squatting that back squattting.

Will the front squat make your back squat go up if you don’t back squat? Maybe maybe not… if you have short limbs and a long torso, it probably wont help much. Those with longer legs might benefit from a specialization on front squats because they will hit their quads a lot more than back squats.

Also, from my experience, if you switch to front squats but do not do any deadlifting your back squat wont go up much.[/quote]

Very interesting, I always thought Olympic lifters make 50% of their training back squats for powerful legs
When you spoke about your olympic training days you did squats twice a day for 7 years, was that back or front squats ? (Just asking )

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Akidara wrote:

Very interesting, I always thought Olympic lifters make 50% of their training back squats for powerful legs
When you spoke about your olympic training days you did squats twice a day for 7 years, was that back or front squats ? (Just asking )[/quote]

It depends on the system… Bulgarians (during their prime) used almost exclusively front squats (back squats was only when the lifters had an upper body injury). Klokov says to do mostly front squats (but he does a lot of deadlifting), BUT in general Russian lifters do more back squats than front squats. Chinese tend to have a 50/50 ratio between front and back and they do a lot of heavy pulling.

I personally used a 50/50 ratio back in my competition days, but right now I’m doing mostly back squats.

[Akidara]

Last question, is your scheme for and big lift good(usefull?)?

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Akidara wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Akidara wrote:
Hello,

I follow the layer principles and my goal is the power look. But I am not sure what an ideal split look like.
My "problem " is my squat day… They hit my body very hard and I have problems with my sghp layer 2 days after… So I am unsure what’s a good approache…

1. Sghp
2. Push Press
3. Squat
4. Bench press
5. Sghp + deadlifts
   6.push press

That was my old split, now if I make at day 5 not taining and at 6 a " back day" and 7 is no training?

I have read somewhere here, that you (CT) said for squat strength something like: 70% 2*5 at the beginning of every training and in the end 50% 10 reps. Can I make that and leave my squat day out…?

Another question… Why do I lose so fast squat strength ? For example if I don’t squat 1-2 weeks my squats are even weaker than before (125kg 1rm, 1week 110kg…)
What are long legs and what’s a short torso? It looks for me so normal
I had problems with my wirst at the bench press, after I stopped my forearm training with a worst roller. Is there a connection?

Thanks for reading:)[/quote]

You could use a periodized scheme for the squat, which you would do on your SGHP days (after the pulls).

Week 1: Day 1: 80% 5 x 4 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 2: Day 1: 80% 5 x 5 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 3: Day 1: 80% 5 x 6 / Day 2: 80% 5 x 2
Week 4: Day 1: 85% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 85% 3 x 2
Week 5: Day 1: 90% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 6: Day 1: 95% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 7: Day 1: 100% 3 x 2 / Day 2: 90% 3 x 1
Week 8: Day 1: 100% 3 x 3 / Day 2: 80% 3 x 2
Week 9: Test max

Note that percentages use your pre-cycle training max, it is not adjusted from week to week.[/quote]

Oh thank you Christian Thibaudeau, I will follow your squat scheme!!!
My split will look like:
Day1:SGHP + squats
Day2:push press
Day3:SGHP + squats
Day4:bench press
Day5:SGHP + deadlifts
Day6: push press
Day7: /

Is that fine ?

Another short question… I make the max muscle layer for 6weeks, what’s my next “step”? 6 weeks strenght layer or 2 weeks recovery training and than my stenght layer ?

Thanks for reading and especially answering.[/quote]

After 6 weeks of layer work I would suggest 1-2 weeks of easier training to allow the nervous system to recover.

[Akidara]

Thanks CT i knew that you should do easier training to recover. In your Log you mentioted in the “shock approach” but what does that mean…?
Less intensity?
Less volume?
Decrease of frequency?

You never have answered that exactly (or I didn’t find it…)

Thank you CT!!!

[Diegoafm]

CT, I have the same doubt Akira. What would this training, recovery of the nervous system?

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Akidara wrote:
Thanks CT i knew that you should do easier training to recover. In your Log you mentioted in the “shock approach” but what does that mean…?
Less intensity?
Less volume?
Decrease of frequency?

You never have answered that exactly (or I didn’t find it…)

Thank you CT!!! [/quote]

Lower the volume by about 50%, keep the intensity high maybe not as high at during the shock phase but only a notch lower. Frequency stays the same but shorter sessions.

[Akidara]

thank you CT,
so as an exapmle ( in am not sure how that works in practice)

Layer Load : Ramp to 3 RM
3 Cluster
3 HDL

→ Volume 50% only 1 HDL and 2 Cluster ( ramp stays the same? )