High Frequency/Compensated Volume Layer Approach

Hi CT,

a week or so ago i asked your oppinion on accumulative CNS drain throughout the workout-week.

i’ve been busy last week (just finished my degree!!!) but am very keen to get back into the layer system and pack on some powerful mass.

i want to follow a high frequency approach as i have 5-6 weeks until i start my graduate job…

basically i was just wondering if my reduced volume approach will be enough to stimulate growth…

the layers i do are…

ramp to 1rm
2 cluster sets @90% -doing double clusters @85% on SGHP/CG Muscle Snatch to help learn form.
2 5/4/3/2/1 sets at 70-80% (having 2 sets in 2nd and 3rd layers allows me to go heavier)

is this appraoch sufficient to pack on mass?

this is my split;

CG Muscle Snatch
Front Squat
Incline Press
OFF
SGHP
Decline Press
OFF
Repeat.

the recuded volume allows me to still train as hard without my CNS affecting the following day’s workout… would it be ok to follow this strategy, or to maintain 3 sets of 2nd/3rd layers but avoid failure? -which would be better for muscle growth? (i guess this is the age old intensity vs volume debate!).

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Hi CT,

a week or so ago i asked your oppinion on accumulative CNS drain throughout the workout-week.

i’ve been busy last week (just finished my degree!!!) but am very keen to get back into the layer system and pack on some powerful mass.

i want to follow a high frequency approach as i have 5-6 weeks until i start my graduate job…

basically i was just wondering if my reduced volume approach will be enough to stimulate growth…

the layers i do are…

ramp to 1rm
2 cluster sets @90% -doing double clusters @85% on SGHP/CG Muscle Snatch to help learn form.
2 5/4/3/2/1 sets at 70-80% (having 2 sets in 2nd and 3rd layers allows me to go heavier)

is this appraoch sufficient to pack on mass?

this is my split;

CG Muscle Snatch
Front Squat
Incline Press
OFF
SGHP
Decline Press
OFF
Repeat.

the recuded volume allows me to still train as hard without my CNS affecting the following day’s workout… would it be ok to follow this strategy, or to maintain 3 sets of 2nd/3rd layers but avoid failure? -which would be better for muscle growth? (i guess this is the age old intensity vs volume debate!).[/quote]

I do not dislike your split. Your plan will work for about 4-5 weeks. After which the volume work (5-4-3-2-1 and the likes) will likely start to negatively affect your performance gains, at that point switching to a more “strength layers” approach will work best.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Hi CT,

a week or so ago i asked your oppinion on accumulative CNS drain throughout the workout-week.

i’ve been busy last week (just finished my degree!!!) but am very keen to get back into the layer system and pack on some powerful mass.

i want to follow a high frequency approach as i have 5-6 weeks until i start my graduate job…

basically i was just wondering if my reduced volume approach will be enough to stimulate growth…

the layers i do are…

ramp to 1rm
2 cluster sets @90% -doing double clusters @85% on SGHP/CG Muscle Snatch to help learn form.
2 5/4/3/2/1 sets at 70-80% (having 2 sets in 2nd and 3rd layers allows me to go heavier)

is this appraoch sufficient to pack on mass?

this is my split;

CG Muscle Snatch
Front Squat
Incline Press
OFF
SGHP
Decline Press
OFF
Repeat.

the recuded volume allows me to still train as hard without my CNS affecting the following day’s workout… would it be ok to follow this strategy, or to maintain 3 sets of 2nd/3rd layers but avoid failure? -which would be better for muscle growth? (i guess this is the age old intensity vs volume debate!).[/quote]

I do not dislike your split. Your plan will work for about 4-5 weeks. After which the volume work (5-4-3-2-1 and the likes) will likely start to negatively affect your performance gains, at that point switching to a more “strength layers” approach will work best.[/quote]

Thanks CT!

I totally understand your reasoning for adjusting the HDL work for continual strength gains, but what about if Hypertrophy/Muscle gains was my focus?? -I would be happy to atleast maintain strength/power if i could induce a hypertrophic effect…

what would you adjust after the 4-5 week period to increase hypertophic effect?

thanks again for your help so far!

Also, whats your view on full squat cleans as a primary lower body movement? -to take place over front squats?

L

[quote]lboro21 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Hi CT,

a week or so ago i asked your oppinion on accumulative CNS drain throughout the workout-week.

i’ve been busy last week (just finished my degree!!!) but am very keen to get back into the layer system and pack on some powerful mass.

i want to follow a high frequency approach as i have 5-6 weeks until i start my graduate job…

basically i was just wondering if my reduced volume approach will be enough to stimulate growth…

the layers i do are…

ramp to 1rm
2 cluster sets @90% -doing double clusters @85% on SGHP/CG Muscle Snatch to help learn form.
2 5/4/3/2/1 sets at 70-80% (having 2 sets in 2nd and 3rd layers allows me to go heavier)

is this appraoch sufficient to pack on mass?

this is my split;

CG Muscle Snatch
Front Squat
Incline Press
OFF
SGHP
Decline Press
OFF
Repeat.

the recuded volume allows me to still train as hard without my CNS affecting the following day’s workout… would it be ok to follow this strategy, or to maintain 3 sets of 2nd/3rd layers but avoid failure? -which would be better for muscle growth? (i guess this is the age old intensity vs volume debate!).[/quote]

I do not dislike your split. Your plan will work for about 4-5 weeks. After which the volume work (5-4-3-2-1 and the likes) will likely start to negatively affect your performance gains, at that point switching to a more “strength layers” approach will work best.[/quote]

Thanks CT!

I totally understand your reasoning for adjusting the HDL work for continual strength gains, but what about if Hypertrophy/Muscle gains was my focus?? -I would be happy to atleast maintain strength/power if i could induce a hypertrophic effect…

what would you adjust after the 4-5 week period to increase hypertophic effect?

thanks again for your help so far!

Also, whats your view on full squat cleans as a primary lower body movement? -to take place over front squats?

L
[/quote]

I personally believe in using adapted strength work to induce hypertrophy. I do sometimes include phases where some higher reps stuff is included (e.g. HDL methods), but strength work is the foundation of my training even when gaining size is the main goal.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Hi CT,

a week or so ago i asked your oppinion on accumulative CNS drain throughout the workout-week.

i’ve been busy last week (just finished my degree!!!) but am very keen to get back into the layer system and pack on some powerful mass.

i want to follow a high frequency approach as i have 5-6 weeks until i start my graduate job…

basically i was just wondering if my reduced volume approach will be enough to stimulate growth…

the layers i do are…

ramp to 1rm
2 cluster sets @90% -doing double clusters @85% on SGHP/CG Muscle Snatch to help learn form.
2 5/4/3/2/1 sets at 70-80% (having 2 sets in 2nd and 3rd layers allows me to go heavier)

is this appraoch sufficient to pack on mass?

this is my split;

CG Muscle Snatch
Front Squat
Incline Press
OFF
SGHP
Decline Press
OFF
Repeat.

the recuded volume allows me to still train as hard without my CNS affecting the following day’s workout… would it be ok to follow this strategy, or to maintain 3 sets of 2nd/3rd layers but avoid failure? -which would be better for muscle growth? (i guess this is the age old intensity vs volume debate!).[/quote]

I do not dislike your split. Your plan will work for about 4-5 weeks. After which the volume work (5-4-3-2-1 and the likes) will likely start to negatively affect your performance gains, at that point switching to a more “strength layers” approach will work best.[/quote]

Thanks CT!

I totally understand your reasoning for adjusting the HDL work for continual strength gains, but what about if Hypertrophy/Muscle gains was my focus?? -I would be happy to atleast maintain strength/power if i could induce a hypertrophic effect…

what would you adjust after the 4-5 week period to increase hypertophic effect?

thanks again for your help so far!

Also, whats your view on full squat cleans as a primary lower body movement? -to take place over front squats?

L
[/quote]

I personally believe in using adapted strength work to induce hypertrophy. I do sometimes include phases where some higher reps stuff is included (e.g. HDL methods), but strength work is the foundation of my training even when gaining size is the main goal.[/quote]

Yeah that makes sense… chase performance not fatigue right? haha. i guess i’ll adopt this school of thought and just make sure the calories are flooding in! i’ll report back in a few weeks!

thanks for all you help!

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Also, whats your view on full squat cleans as a primary lower body movement? -to take place over front squats?

L
[/quote]

Well, unless you are an amazingly efficient olympic lifter, it will not provide enough loading. The MOST EFFICIENT competitive olympic lifters in the world will normally clean what they can front squat for 3 perfect, no grinding, reps.

So you will always be limited by your clean strength if you use that as your main exercise. For example, let’s say that you use 90% of your clean for your sets (which is a lot to use on that movement in training with any form of frequency or volume. That means that IN THE BEST POSSIBLE CASE you will be using 80% of your max front squat… and that is if you have the efficiency of an elite lifter. More likely it will be 70 or even 60%.

But you can only get about 2 reps on cleans with 90% of your max. So if that is all you do, you will be doing 2 reps of “front squats” with 60-80% of your max, which isn’t very challenging on the muscles. Furthermore, you cannot do that many sets with 90% of your max clean… so the volume of leg work will be low too.

NOW, you could do a complex, for example one clean then 5-6 front squats. At least you will get a more challenging number of reps for the load selected, but it still represents a fairly light load to put on the muscles.

There is a reason why elite olympic lifters squat so often… if it were possible to build enough leg strength only by cleaning, they would drop squatting in favor of more cleaning since it’s more specific… but they don’t.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Also, whats your view on full squat cleans as a primary lower body movement? -to take place over front squats?

L
[/quote]

Well, unless you are an amazingly efficient olympic lifter, it will not provide enough loading. The MOST EFFICIENT competitive olympic lifters in the world will normally clean what they can front squat for 3 perfect, no grinding, reps.

So you will always be limited by your clean strength if you use that as your main exercise. For example, let’s say that you use 90% of your clean for your sets (which is a lot to use on that movement in training with any form of frequency or volume. That means that IN THE BEST POSSIBLE CASE you will be using 80% of your max front squat… and that is if you have the efficiency of an elite lifter. More likely it will be 70 or even 60%.

But you can only get about 2 reps on cleans with 90% of your max. So if that is all you do, you will be doing 2 reps of “front squats” with 60-80% of your max, which isn’t very challenging on the muscles. Furthermore, you cannot do that many sets with 90% of your max clean… so the volume of leg work will be low too.

NOW, you could do a complex, for example one clean then 5-6 front squats. At least you will get a more challenging number of reps for the load selected, but it still represents a fairly light load to put on the muscles.

There is a reason why elite olympic lifters squat so often… if it were possible to build enough leg strength only by cleaning, they would drop squatting in favor of more cleaning since it’s more specific… but they don’t.[/quote]

That makes a lot of sense! -especially for me, since i’m a beginner when it comes to training olympic lifts with any sort consistency/loading.

i’ll stick to the front squats as my lower body movement!

I’ve been reading one of your training spills, saying that doing the ‘full’ layer system (ramp, 3 sets of clusters, 3 sets of HDL) is very important, and the same hypertrophy stimulus cannot be achieved by compensating layer volume for frequency; is this something you still preach?

-i’m considering a 4 say split of SGHP, Decline Press, Front Squats and Clean Grip Muscle Snatch and maintaining the full ‘layer-volume’ which would adhere to my original issue of CNS drain… i think this information could benefit a lot of people struggling with short-long term CNS fatigue especially beginner/intermediates like myself!

-so do you still rank layer volume over frequency (with compensated volume)?

[quote]lboro21 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Also, whats your view on full squat cleans as a primary lower body movement? -to take place over front squats?

L
[/quote]

Well, unless you are an amazingly efficient olympic lifter, it will not provide enough loading. The MOST EFFICIENT competitive olympic lifters in the world will normally clean what they can front squat for 3 perfect, no grinding, reps.

So you will always be limited by your clean strength if you use that as your main exercise. For example, let’s say that you use 90% of your clean for your sets (which is a lot to use on that movement in training with any form of frequency or volume. That means that IN THE BEST POSSIBLE CASE you will be using 80% of your max front squat… and that is if you have the efficiency of an elite lifter. More likely it will be 70 or even 60%.

But you can only get about 2 reps on cleans with 90% of your max. So if that is all you do, you will be doing 2 reps of “front squats” with 60-80% of your max, which isn’t very challenging on the muscles. Furthermore, you cannot do that many sets with 90% of your max clean… so the volume of leg work will be low too.

NOW, you could do a complex, for example one clean then 5-6 front squats. At least you will get a more challenging number of reps for the load selected, but it still represents a fairly light load to put on the muscles.

There is a reason why elite olympic lifters squat so often… if it were possible to build enough leg strength only by cleaning, they would drop squatting in favor of more cleaning since it’s more specific… but they don’t.[/quote]

That makes a lot of sense! -especially for me, since i’m a beginner when it comes to training olympic lifts with any sort consistency/loading.

i’ll stick to the front squats as my lower body movement!

I’ve been reading one of your training spills, saying that doing the ‘full’ layer system (ramp, 3 sets of clusters, 3 sets of HDL) is very important, and the same hypertrophy stimulus cannot be achieved by compensating layer volume for frequency; is this something you still preach?

-i’m considering a 4 say split of SGHP, Decline Press, Front Squats and Clean Grip Muscle Snatch and maintaining the full ‘layer-volume’ which would adhere to my original issue of CNS drain… i think this information could benefit a lot of people struggling with short-long term CNS fatigue especially beginner/intermediates like myself!

-so do you still rank layer volume over frequency (with compensated volume)?[/quote]

(1) There is not ONE layer application. Layering besically means using a mix of methods when training a movement to get a more profound stimulation. Just in my forum 4 applications of layers have been discussed.

(2) One thing I came to realise this year is that there is a certain threshold that training intensity must reach to lead to gains in muscle mass. And if you do not reach that threshold you cannot compensate by doing more work or more frequent work that still doesn’t reach the necessary threshold.

Thanks again for your sterling advise and help, i think i will run the four day split and really try and push performance barriers in try and gain 10lbs in the next coming months… 15lb PR on the Snatch High Pulls today, so i know your advise is helping my training move in the right direction!

I will report back with my results in the next coming weeks.

thank you so much again,

L