Never use weight as a derterminant for shrugs. Normally those are humping hip extension no trap shrugs. Peak contractions are the name of the game for shrugs. Increasing weight as you can and high reps. IMO
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Never use weight as a derterminant for shrugs. Normally those are humping hip extension no trap shrugs. Peak contractions are the name of the game for shrugs. Increasing weight as you can and high reps. IMO [/quote]
Ok that makes me feel a lot better
Coan Upper
Flat BB: Was supposed to hit 245x2x2 again, but 245 unracking it just felt heavy, so decided to go for a rep PR
225x5
Paused CGBP:
225x2x2
Single Arm Incline DB:
55’sx2x8
Delt Triset: 3 rounds
Band Pull Apart: Greenx50
Seated Laterals: 15’sx12
Klokov Presses: 45x8
Arm Triset: 3 rounds
Seated DB Extensions: 15’sx20
Banded Hammer Curls: 25x12
Pushdowns: 50x10
So was happy with hitting 225 for 5. 225 just felt really light, so wanted to go for it. And this is kind of a milestone IMO.
So that puts my max around 260-265? Tomorrow I’ll do my Squat workout, hit a rep PR to get a decent projected 1RM, then probably go for the 40 day program.
Thinking of using:
Flat Bench
Back Squats
Snatch Grip Deficit DL
Pendlay Rows/Chin Ups (Can’t decide here)
Swings (don’t have Kettlebells, so will use a towel through the center of a plate)
And then most morning I’ll do something like
100 band pushdowns
100 band curls
100 band pull aparts
50 band laterals
50 band leg curls
Just something to get blood flowing in those areas.
I think you suffer the way I do in that we think way too much about these training and programming… Step back. Ok Just look at what you wrote. all of those lifts everyday a week light followed by band work.
Now go look at what every pro bodybuilder is doing and recommends to do (not that every pro is smart or knows much about training). Bodypart splits, with focusing on compound lifts and just adding weight, reps, another set, whatever to progres.
You should see that what you made for yourself looks like absolute nonsense to this.
I think you’d be a lot lot better off doing a bodypart split and stop making things complicated for no reason. Chest/tris, back/bis, shoulders, and legs/calves/abs. Simple enough 4x a week.
Chest/tris
-BB Bench 1-4 sets of 3-5 reps
-Incline Bench 1-4 sets of 3-5 reps
-CG Floor Press 1-4 sets of 5-8 reps
-BB Tricep extensions 5 sets of 10-20 reps
-Flyes at the end with bands 100 reps or dips 50 total reps (id prefer dips)
Back/Bis
-Deadlift 1-4 sets of 3-5 reps
-Barbell Rows 1-4 sets of 8-12 reps
-Meadows Rows or 1 arm BB or dumbell 5 sets of 10-20 reps
-Barbell Curls 1-4 sets of 8-12 reps
-Band curls 100 reps at end if you feel like it
Shoulders
-Seated OHP 1-4 sets of 3-5 reps
-Seated BTN Press 1-4 sets of 5-8 reps
-Band lat raise/ Band Front Raise superset 5 sets of 10-20 reps each
-Maybe rear delt band flies 100 reps at end
Legs
-Squats 1-4 sets of 3-5 reps
-High bar squats 1-4 sets of 3-5 reps
-Front Squats 1-4 sets of 5-8 reps
-SLDL (deficit if you want) 1-4 sets of 5-8 reps
-Calf raises however you can 100 reps
-Whatever ab exercise you can do 100 reps
This is extremely UNCOMPLICATED, looks like something a bb/pl would do, etc. not the dan john 40 day nonsense. If you did this for a year and gained 20-30 pounds (even if some is fat) and actually tried to add weight, reps, sets, cut rest time, etc. each workout you will look COMPLETELY different. Is it going to produce the ultimate balanced physique? no probably not. But at this level I think you and I both would benefit from stepping back and just doing basics basics. People doubt how far something simple like that can take you. Most pro bb/pl followed simple shit like this for years and years before they stepped on a pro stage and it got them that far so.
sorry if this comes off like I know more than you, I don’t and don’t pretend to know much of anything at all I have a lot to learn but I think this or any bb split looks better than the dan john shit
Gotta disagree with the 4x a week bp split. I don’t think that is optimal for anyone even on drugs and worse for nattys. That isn’t enough frequency muscles don’t take that long to recover.
Also if strength is more of a goal, many many ppl that know their shit will say frequency in the big lifts are what you should do 3x a week great. 4 sure. 5 yep. Gotta be a smart program but it’s doable
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta disagree with the 4x a week bp split. I don’t think that is optimal for anyone even on drugs and worse for nattys. That isn’t enough frequency muscles don’t take that long to recover.
Also if strength is more of a goal, many many ppl that know their shit will say frequency in the big lifts are what you should do 3x a week great. 4 sure. 5 yep. Gotta be a smart program but it’s doable [/quote]
With the first paragraph, I’ll agree that muscles don’t take a full week to recover, but I don’t think training 5-7x a week going light enough to allow yourself to be able to do that is nearly as effective as really hammering yourself for 2-4x a week. I just don’t know anyone that I personally look up to or listen to that recommends or has ever done it that way. Not to say that it isn’t a thing, or not doable, or that maybe some top lifter I dont know about does it that way. Just I would never recommend it because I’ve Never seen success with it personally for me and I’ve never had people who I’ve worked or talked with either personally or online say it worked as well for them as 2-4x a week with 1x a week frequency.
That and I’d reason to say that your joints and tendons are worse off with high frequency because they take a daily beating. I might be totally wrong and the science completely against me, but when I tried high frequency I was in pretty bad joint pain with my elbows.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta disagree with the 4x a week bp split. I don’t think that is optimal for anyone even on drugs and worse for nattys. That isn’t enough frequency muscles don’t take that long to recover.
Also if strength is more of a goal, many many ppl that know their shit will say frequency in the big lifts are what you should do 3x a week great. 4 sure. 5 yep. Gotta be a smart program but it’s doable [/quote]
With the first paragraph, I’ll agree that muscles don’t take a full week to recover, but I don’t think training 5-7x a week going light enough to allow yourself to be able to do that is nearly as effective as really hammering yourself for 2-4x a week. I just don’t know anyone that I personally look up to or listen to that recommends or has ever done it that way. Not to say that it isn’t a thing, or not doable, or that maybe some top lifter I dont know about does it that way. Just I would never recommend it because I’ve Never seen success with it personally for me and I’ve never had people who I’ve worked or talked with either personally or online say it worked as well for them as 2-4x a week with 1x a week frequency.
That and I’d reason to say that your joints and tendons are worse off with high frequency because they take a daily beating. I might be totally wrong and the science completely against me, but when I tried high frequency I was in pretty bad joint pain with my elbows.
[/quote]
Weird because most that I know in both Pl and Bbing all opt for more than 2-4 a week. That’s the lowest frequency I’ve ever seen recommended unless recover is shot to shit. Take one of the best natty Bber. Layne. Two times a week and hit some damn good numbers lifting 5x a week everything hit 2x
The BBB program. More frequency none heavy weights. All the full body programs. More frequency
Then personally I’ve done 5-7x a week everything 2+ times a week for almost two years now. No problems and recently moved to heavy squat and press 5x a week and heavy DL on a 6th. Week 4 is beginning now. No joint issues. S me pain In a quad but didn’t feel like it was workout related I jsut think many ppl don’t push it and truly find the limit. But maybe not
Sorry to derail but Ryan how would you add more frequency to this
Monday:
incline bench1 top set up to 8-15
DB bench 5x10
Btn press 2x8
seated DB press 5x10
Tuesday:
Squat or front squat ramp to one top set of 8-15
SLDL 3x8
Lunge 3x12
Sprints
Wednesday:
Bb row 4x8
Chins weighted 5,4,3,2,1 then bw 5x fail
Shrugs 4x20
PULLDOWN 3x8
Friday:
Close grip bench work up to one top set of 8-15
BB curl 1x100
DB curl 5x10
PUSHDOWN 5x20
Another bi
Another tri
Saturday: some times I hit back again with deficit deads, DB rows and some sort of vertical pull
2 favs 5 days a week- 6days
Heavy leg, heavy upper, off, rep leg, rep chest, rep back, optional arms
6day-7day
Legs/push/pull, off/arms, legs/push/pull
Or 4 day a week.
Lower/ upper x2
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta disagree with the 4x a week bp split. I don’t think that is optimal for anyone even on drugs and worse for nattys. That isn’t enough frequency muscles don’t take that long to recover.
Also if strength is more of a goal, many many ppl that know their shit will say frequency in the big lifts are what you should do 3x a week great. 4 sure. 5 yep. Gotta be a smart program but it’s doable [/quote]
With the first paragraph, I’ll agree that muscles don’t take a full week to recover, but I don’t think training 5-7x a week going light enough to allow yourself to be able to do that is nearly as effective as really hammering yourself for 2-4x a week. I just don’t know anyone that I personally look up to or listen to that recommends or has ever done it that way. Not to say that it isn’t a thing, or not doable, or that maybe some top lifter I dont know about does it that way. Just I would never recommend it because I’ve Never seen success with it personally for me and I’ve never had people who I’ve worked or talked with either personally or online say it worked as well for them as 2-4x a week with 1x a week frequency.
That and I’d reason to say that your joints and tendons are worse off with high frequency because they take a daily beating. I might be totally wrong and the science completely against me, but when I tried high frequency I was in pretty bad joint pain with my elbows.
[/quote]
Weird because most that I know in both Pl and Bbing all opt for more than 2-4 a week. That’s the lowest frequency I’ve ever seen recommended unless recover is shot to shit. Take one of the best natty Bber. Layne. Two times a week and hit some damn good numbers lifting 5x a week everything hit 2x
The BBB program. More frequency none heavy weights. All the full body programs. More frequency
Then personally I’ve done 5-7x a week everything 2+ times a week for almost two years now. No problems and recently moved to heavy squat and press 5x a week and heavy DL on a 6th. Week 4 is beginning now. No joint issues. S me pain In a quad but didn’t feel like it was workout related I jsut think many ppl don’t push it and truly find the limit. But maybe not [/quote]
Maybe we’re just looking towards different people. I look towards the lilliebridges, dan green (he kind of advocates frequency but not to the degree youre talking about, brandon lilly, dave hoff (geared or not, high squat or not that motherfucker is trong), malanchiev etc…
That and everyone who I’ve personally met whose competed in BB (not big names, but theyre the biggest people ive ever met with one being near 320lbs in his offseason with still visible abs) thinks a bb split 1x a week is enough if you kill it.
Like just looking at popular methods:
-Westside 3-4x a week
-Cube 3-4x a week
-Paul carter’s programs 2-4x a week
-Lilliebridge ( or linear progression basically) 2-5x a week
I’ve tried something like what you’ve said youre doing and by week 5 or 6 it caught up to me, my speed had slowed down to shit, I was getting hurt, and progress was heading backwards. But me, and anyone who I’ve trained with under the same programming as me, when we have trained each lift/bodypart 1x a week and killed it we got stronger, bigger, and had less injuries than high frequency
[quote]chobbs wrote:
Sorry to derail but Ryan how would you add more frequency to this
Monday:
incline bench1 top set up to 8-15
DB bench 5x10
Btn press 2x8
seated DB press 5x10
Tuesday:
Squat or front squat ramp to one top set of 8-15
SLDL 3x8
Lunge 3x12
Sprints
Wednesday:
Bb row 4x8
Chins weighted 5,4,3,2,1 then bw 5x fail
Shrugs 4x20
PULLDOWN 3x8
Friday:
Close grip bench work up to one top set of 8-15
BB curl 1x100
DB curl 5x10
PUSHDOWN 5x20
Another bi
Another tri
Saturday: some times I hit back again with deficit deads, DB rows and some sort of vertical pull[/quote]
Though you already are hitting frequency better than 1x a week on most
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gotta disagree with the 4x a week bp split. I don’t think that is optimal for anyone even on drugs and worse for nattys. That isn’t enough frequency muscles don’t take that long to recover.
Also if strength is more of a goal, many many ppl that know their shit will say frequency in the big lifts are what you should do 3x a week great. 4 sure. 5 yep. Gotta be a smart program but it’s doable [/quote]
With the first paragraph, I’ll agree that muscles don’t take a full week to recover, but I don’t think training 5-7x a week going light enough to allow yourself to be able to do that is nearly as effective as really hammering yourself for 2-4x a week. I just don’t know anyone that I personally look up to or listen to that recommends or has ever done it that way. Not to say that it isn’t a thing, or not doable, or that maybe some top lifter I dont know about does it that way. Just I would never recommend it because I’ve Never seen success with it personally for me and I’ve never had people who I’ve worked or talked with either personally or online say it worked as well for them as 2-4x a week with 1x a week frequency.
That and I’d reason to say that your joints and tendons are worse off with high frequency because they take a daily beating. I might be totally wrong and the science completely against me, but when I tried high frequency I was in pretty bad joint pain with my elbows.
[/quote]
Weird because most that I know in both Pl and Bbing all opt for more than 2-4 a week. That’s the lowest frequency I’ve ever seen recommended unless recover is shot to shit. Take one of the best natty Bber. Layne. Two times a week and hit some damn good numbers lifting 5x a week everything hit 2x
The BBB program. More frequency none heavy weights. All the full body programs. More frequency
Then personally I’ve done 5-7x a week everything 2+ times a week for almost two years now. No problems and recently moved to heavy squat and press 5x a week and heavy DL on a 6th. Week 4 is beginning now. No joint issues. S me pain In a quad but didn’t feel like it was workout related I jsut think many ppl don’t push it and truly find the limit. But maybe not [/quote]
Maybe we’re just looking towards different people. I look towards the lilliebridges, dan green (he kind of advocates frequency but not to the degree youre talking about, brandon lilly, dave hoff (geared or not, high squat or not that motherfucker is trong), malanchiev etc…
That and everyone who I’ve personally met whose competed in BB (not big names, but theyre the biggest people ive ever met with one being near 320lbs in his offseason with still visible abs) thinks a bb split 1x a week is enough if you kill it.
Like just looking at popular methods:
-Westside 3-4x a week
-Cube 3-4x a week
-Paul carter’s programs 2-4x a week
-Lilliebridge ( or linear progression basically) 2-5x a week
I’ve tried something like what you’ve said youre doing and by week 5 or 6 it caught up to me, my speed had slowed down to shit, I was getting hurt, and progress was heading backwards. But me, and anyone who I’ve trained with under the same programming as me, when we have trained each lift/bodypart 1x a week and killed it we got stronger, bigger, and had less injuries than high frequency[/quote]
I guess we do. I look to people who I deem as smart who base things off experience as well as back it up with some good thoughts.
There are plenty of programs with more frequency. You are cherry picking. And I also stated that assisted can get away with growth where nattys can’t. Since they rely less on up regulating proteins synthesis through training though IMO and some other smart ppl they would benefit from it more than anyone else. And being 320 on a lot of drugs takes a lot out of you. Training a lot gets a bit difficult. Al things think about when you look at their training and eating ect. Lowe frequency is not even close to the only way. I’m done with derail sorry spidey
No problem guys, I totally don’t mind the derail. I actually appreciated.
PlainPat, you’re right, I think about programming and what my next phase of training is going to be all the time. I honestly liked the Dan John thing because it’s quick (he even said he recommends only about 25 days because after that the benefits of the program start to wane), and it would actually give my joints a rest, as they are feeling pretty beat up. Idk where, but I wrote in the log I’d do this, and then move to a push/pull/leg
or heavy/light kind of split. I thought a program like this would be a good break honestly, mentally and physically.
Ryan, I agree with 1x frequency not working really that well. I’m always much more stiff through out the week from it, and just seem to not be able to really destroy a muscle enough to warrant 7 days recovery. May just be I don’t know how to push myself enough, who knows. And right now strength is more of a priority than growth, so I feel hitting the lifts more will only help with that.
Here’s basically what I’m picking up:
- you’d rather be doing “something” 5-7 days a week
- you need something of a break for a bit – due as much, if not more, to life-stuff
- you’re still ultimately focused on physique (whether it be competitive or just “looking good”)
- right now you want to focus on strength (why?)
- you don’t really want to put too much thought into it, ideally
Did I get that right? And, so, what does that make your current goals? Bodyweight goals? Size goals? Squat/Bench/Dead goals?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Here’s basically what I’m picking up:
- you’d rather be doing “something” 5-7 days a week
- you need something of a break for a bit – due as much, if not more, to life-stuff
- you’re still ultimately focused on physique (whether it be competitive or just “looking good”)
- right now you want to focus on strength (why?)
- you don’t really want to put too much thought into it, ideally
Did I get that right? And, so, what does that make your current goals? Bodyweight goals? Size goals? Squat/Bench/Dead goals?[/quote]
- Yes, because I work out at home now, all my stuff is literally right out in the garage, though I probably SHOULD take some more off days
2 Kind of, just something to break up the monotony of training. I’ve never really done full-body, and I would like to train for awhile without thinking about the ‘top weight’ I have to hit all day
-
Yes, I’m never going to be the guy who JUST wants strength or performance. I want to look the part.
-
Strength is the goal right now, because I mean, I’m weak. I think it’ll help with physique goals, but also I like doing heavy triples, sets of 5, stuff like that. It’s a fun way to train. Plus, while I care about physique goals, as a natty it’s hard to objectively measure progress. But number in the gym at least allow that.
-
Exactly, not a lot of thought in this program.
My goals right now, short term, are to move my lifts into the 300/400/500 realm. Size wise, I’m actually the heaviest I’ve ever really been while having some kind of abs, in the 210~ area. I’m thinking I will drop calories a bit on this 40-day program, add in some conditioning stuff outside, just because I like being outside, and kind of see if I can lean out just a bit. At that point, I’ll see if I’m lean enough to feel comfortable or need to do a more ‘active’ cut.
Coan Squats
Back Squat: Have worked on lowering the bar a bit, which allows me to now let the bar get out in front of me, but prevents that ‘pop’ out of the hole I feel, or at least I haven’t done it right yet
315x10
Higher Bar Paused Squats:
275x3x3
SGDL:
225x3x5
Did 30 Pull-ups in there some where, some pull-aparts, and banded GM’s.
315x10 was a big PR, kind of a milestone. That puts my ‘projected’ max at like 420 lololol. My legs are super slow twitch, like I’m a pretty decent distance runner. So higher rep Squats doesn’t indicate my 1RM, though I think I’m good for 375-390 roughly.
Also, decided I need to do a bit of damage control. I’m about as fat as I’ll allow myself to be right now. Nothing major, like 4-8 weeks (shooting for 6 but figured it would end early or go further). Plus I’ve been ball-parking shit for awhile now, and I need to get back into the habit of weighing stuff again. Talked with pwolves for a bit, he suggested I be more aggressive on such a shorter cut.
So I’m going to start with 350/210/100, while I’ll still be using CarbBackloading. Will also add some cardio in, nothing super structured, just stuff outside because the weather has been nice. This entire time I’ll be trying to increase my numbers, though, as I don’t expect to lose near enough weight or anything to change leverages or something like that.
So started the program today, will see how it goes for at least 3 weeks
Flat BB:
185x2x5
Chins:
BWx2x5
Back Squats: Was going to use 275, but decided I’m going to try and go ATG on these
225x2x5
SGDL:
185x2x5
OH Walks: Just used the EZ bar, so not counting that weight. Will vary distance and weight likely
50x2 trips up and back
Did the band stuff. Will figure do tabatas some days, maybe sprints, idk. May start doing suitcase/farmers walks more often, OH walks, just because doing lifting stuff outside is pretty fun, and I might even get out my weight sled here soon too.
Same workout today, except I did 3x10 on planks. REAL intense, 10 seconds tightening my abs, glutes, back, Quads, all hard AF, 5 sec off, repeat 9 more times, and that’s a set.
Also did OH walks with 70lbs, and did 4 trips up and back. Will alternate this and KB swing tabatas I think for a little cardio hit, getting outside and all that.
I’m honestly having fun with training, I think I was a little beat up. Realistically I’ll do this for like 3 weeks (21-25 days) as that’s when DJ says the program really provides gains, and get on a reasonable split, something BB/PL like hitting stuff 2-3x a week. Though I like the idea of a day just for conditioning stuff, like farmer’s walks, OH walks, sprints, rope stuff. Just treating this like a mini-deload and a good opportunity to kick start this mini-cut
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
315x10 was a big PR, kind of a milestone. That puts my ‘projected’ max at like 420 lololol. My legs are super slow twitch, like I’m a pretty decent distance runner. So higher rep Squats doesn’t indicate my 1RM, though I think I’m good for 375-390 roughly. [/quote]
Very nice Spidey! 315x10 is a milestone for sure. There aren’t a ton of gym rats out there squatting 3 plates for 10 reps with any kind of depth. Obviously on Tnation we know that there’s a higher standard we’re shooting for, but you should be proud of that for sure and know you’re headed in the right direction 
Thanks Trent. On to 365x10!
Today did a 5/3/2 set-up, just making sure not to really push anything heavy though
Flat BB: I need to warm-up more, I don’t feel ‘awake’ with these
185x5
200x3
215x2
Chins: Form always gets sloppy with these so went conservating
BWx5
+10x3
+20x2
Back Squats: Butter
225x5
255x3
285x2
Deficit SGDL: Really good
185x5
215x3
245x2
KB Swing Tabata
Had to hurry today, got up early slammed coffee lifted and was out all day. Definitely went over my macros for the day, but hey it happens lol. Kind of a fluke.