Man, hope it doesn’t seem like I’m always raggin’ on you, but that “diet” is atrocious. That’s a fast track to get (and stay) fat. You can hit your #s with much better food choices. Donuts, ice cream, hot chocolate, sweet tea etc… are shit foods and do nothing for physical development other than insure your love handles stick out further than your lats.
[/quote]
Well the donuts and Ice cream were that particular day. Off days I will go out to eat and enjoy myself, so that happens. But that’s only 1-2x a week. 9 times out of 10 the donuts and ice cream are replaced with a burrito another omelette.
The hot chocolate is literally 12g of carbs. It’s mixed with water and more so just something I’ve grown accustomed to drinking, and while I know sweet tea isn’t ‘great’ for you, I mean your from the South WF, you know how that is haha.
But seriously, I value your input, what would you rather me do as opposed to what I am doing. I try to have a balance of hitting whole foods while not being inconvenienced. Just more rice/pasta?[/quote]
Haha, I might get my Souther Card pulled for this but sweet tea is basically drinkin’ a coke. Didn’t mean to sound like you shouldn’t eat “shit” foods, just don’t think they should be staples in any hard training individuals diet. I don’t believe a calorie is a calorie, and 800 cals of organic rice and free range chicken reacts completely differently in the body than 800 cals of jelly donuts. Basically, the less processed shit you put in your body, the better. I’d replace 'em (most of the time) with any dense starch you can handle. potatoes, rice, ezekiel bread, things like that.
You got a good head on your shoulders, and handle constructive criticism really well. That’s gonna be an aceup your sleeve when you get out of school and in the “real world”.
I like the macros man, and you are looking very noticeably larger.
I’m definitely IIFYM as well. I mean maybe it’s not the best for ultimate carcinogen minimizing paleo lifestyle hardcore, but as far as just muscle and fat it doesn’t make any difference to your body. I’ve lost track of how many pro bodybuilders have an entire pantry full of pop-tarts.
[quote]csulli wrote:
I like the macros man, and you are looking very noticeably larger.
I’m definitely IIFYM as well. I mean maybe it’s not the best for ultimate carcinogen minimizing paleo lifestyle hardcore, but as far as just muscle and fat it doesn’t make any difference to your body. I’ve lost track of how many pro bodybuilders have an entire pantry full of pop-tarts.[/quote]
A guy who’s on every muscle building drug under the sun, including insulin, has a li’l more dietary leeway than your average non-juiced gym goer. And, your body most certainly DOES know the difference. If you’ve been eating shit and switch to “cleaner” foods, you’re probably gonna feel rough for awhile. That’s your body detoxing. Not sure of a more pertinent way to get that point across.
[quote]csulli wrote:
I like the macros man, and you are looking very noticeably larger.
I’m definitely IIFYM as well. I mean maybe it’s not the best for ultimate carcinogen minimizing paleo lifestyle hardcore, but as far as just muscle and fat it doesn’t make any difference to your body. I’ve lost track of how many pro bodybuilders have an entire pantry full of pop-tarts.[/quote]
A guy who’s on every muscle building drug under the sun, including insulin, has a li’l more dietary leeway than your average non-juiced gym goer. And, your body most certainly DOES know the difference. If you’ve been eating shit and switch to “cleaner” foods, you’re probably gonna feel rough for awhile. That’s your body detoxing. Not sure of a more pertinent way to get that point across. [/quote]
Yeah the whole pro bodybuilders eat shitty sometimes argument is a bad one to justify IIFYM just saying. Drugs change everythang.
I think you might have pushed your macros too high too fast, but the food sources aren’t an issue as far as I’m concerned. Smh at people saying that pro bb’ers can get away with iifym because of drugs…some of the best natural pros are also some of the biggest believers in flexible dieting
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I think you might have pushed your macros too high too fast, but the food sources aren’t an issue as far as I’m concerned. Smh at people saying that pro bb’ers can get away with iifym because of drugs…some of the best natural pros are also some of the biggest believers in flexible dieting[/quote]
No one’s arguing against “flexible dieting”. I’m saying mass consumption of white flour, table sugar, trans fats and other highly processed shit is probably not the best idea as far as health, body composition and performance are concerned. Throwing all of that into an already high calorie diet and you’ve potentially got a recipe for bad news.
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I think you might have pushed your macros too high too fast, but the food sources aren’t an issue as far as I’m concerned. Smh at people saying that pro bb’ers can get away with iifym because of drugs…some of the best natural pros are also some of the biggest believers in flexible dieting[/quote]
Didnt say IIFYM isnt an ok thing, just saying that oh well pro bodybuilders eat shitty sometimes is a bad justification for it
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I think you might have pushed your macros too high too fast, but the food sources aren’t an issue as far as I’m concerned. Smh at people saying that pro bb’ers can get away with iifym because of drugs…some of the best natural pros are also some of the biggest believers in flexible dieting[/quote]
Interesting discussion going on right now, I have to say I mostly agree with Whiteflash… The drugs do change the game for sure, and while you’re right about some natties that do that, the best natural pros who do that are also genetic freaks with crazy metabolisms. Also, their ‘flexible dieting’ doesn’t really look like Spidey’s… the successful flexible dieting guys still do say to base your diet off good nutrient rich foods, but they tend to eat some whatever carbs etc as well… Spidey’s diet looks like an awful lot of junk, not enough good stuff.
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I think you might have pushed your macros too high too fast, but the food sources aren’t an issue as far as I’m concerned. Smh at people saying that pro bb’ers can get away with iifym because of drugs…some of the best natural pros are also some of the biggest believers in flexible dieting[/quote]
Interesting discussion going on right now, I have to say I mostly agree with Whiteflash… The drugs do change the game for sure, and while you’re right about some natties that do that, the best natural pros who do that are also genetic freaks with crazy metabolisms. Also, their ‘flexible dieting’ doesn’t really look like Spidey’s… the successful flexible dieting guys still do say to base your diet off good nutrient rich foods, but they tend to eat some whatever carbs etc as well… Spidey’s diet looks like an awful lot of junk, not enough good stuff.[/quote]
This.
IIFYM can totally work, but those it works for typically look like “usual” bodybuilder diets a majority of the time. You dont see the top natural pros eating ice cream and donuts on the daily and screaming IIFYM. They throw it in sometimes because who doesnt like that food sometimes. But mostly its clean, good ole fashioned bodybuilding food
My 2 cents regarding this recent topic of your nutrition: I would agree with Whiteflash and co. regarding eating a little more cleaner. Who wouldnt want to have 2-3% less body fat?? Maybe save your sweet tea and PB jelly sammiches for post workout???
Alright I appreciate all the input guys, seriously.
Ya’ll keep citing donuts and ice cream, but that’s not a usual off day. Like today I had eggs + pork, burgers, steak + rice as my meals today. I change up the ‘off day’ foods to break off the monotony. Training days are pretty consistent, but it seems whatever everyone has issues with is the tall glass of sweet tea? Maybe the hot chocolate, but like I said that’s 12g of carbs, and the hot liquid gets me ready for bed most times haha.
I’ve eaten ‘all organic’ before, had decent results. I’ve cut out dairy and one point, and breads as well, and never noticed much of a difference if any. The only thing that I’ve ever removed and felt ‘better’ from is whey, honestly. So otherwise, what would ya’ll suggest I change. Just more rice/pasta at dinner, with maybe a diet drink instead?
I agree with all of you that flexible dieting isn’t an excuse to be irresponsible with your nutrition, but it’s not as if a majority of Spidey’s carbs are coming from “bad” foods (if there is such a thing). 500 g of “clean” carbs a day is pretty tough to put down without being extremely uncomfortable or having your life revolve around carrying food. If Spidey were to have a bowl of ice cream every day that he fits into his macros and is still taking care of his micronutrient needs, there will be zero negative impact
Actually I wish I had phrased what I said differently, because it was immediately turned to a thing where guys on gear can get away with a worse diet. That’s true, but honestly the point I made about the poptarts, I wasn’t thinking of anyone on gear, only natty guys.
I don’t know much about Stu’s diet, but I know he has about 10000 poptarts at home lol. My training partner Chia is pretty darn IIFYM. He basically eats whatever he wants. He’s sub 10% bf at 181 with a 620 deadlift. A local guy here who is a sponsored physique competitor is also pretty IIFYM. These are all lifetime natty.
Maybe there is a lot of science I don’t know about, but ignoring “health”, we’re just talking building muscle and losing fat. I don’t think your body knows the difference between 1g of carbohydrates that came from processed sugar and 1g of carbohydrates that came from rice or 100 calories from McDonalds vs 100 calories from broccoli. A calorie is a measure of energy and does not change. At the end of the day all carbohydrates are just “hydrates” of carbon atoms. If you can keep the amounts of everything where they should be I don’t see why it should matter from where you got the chemical makeup purely in terms of adding muscle tissue and not adding/reducing fat tissue.
I would never attempt to argue that there aren’t health benefits from eating clean. I just think it’s a separate issue from body shape.
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I agree with all of you that flexible dieting isn’t an excuse to be irresponsible with your nutrition, but it’s not as if a majority of Spidey’s carbs are coming from “bad” foods (if there is such a thing). 500 g of “clean” carbs a day is pretty tough to put down without being extremely uncomfortable or having your life revolve around carrying food. If Spidey were to have a bowl of ice cream every day that he fits into his macros and is still taking care of his micronutrient needs, there will be zero negative impact [/quote]
I eat well over 400g of carbs a day on mostly organic rice, organic potatoes, some fruit and a ton of veggies and I’m neither uncomfortable nor does my life revolve around food. Also, I used to think three whole “Organic” thing was a scam. I’ve been doing it 90-ish % of the time for the last 5-6 weeks and the difference is remarkable. I look, feel and perform better. I’m gaining weight AND getting leaner, while eating a little less protein and way more carbs and natural fats. I’ve made no other changes in that time except adding creatine. If you say it doesn’t work, then you half-assed it or didn’t give it an honest shot. Not saying anyone has to do what I’m doing, but your body most certainly knows the difference between “good” and “bad”.
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I agree with all of you that flexible dieting isn’t an excuse to be irresponsible with your nutrition, but it’s not as if a majority of Spidey’s carbs are coming from “bad” foods (if there is such a thing). 500 g of “clean” carbs a day is pretty tough to put down without being extremely uncomfortable or having your life revolve around carrying food. If Spidey were to have a bowl of ice cream every day that he fits into his macros and is still taking care of his micronutrient needs, there will be zero negative impact [/quote]
I eat well over 400g of carbs a day on mostly organic rice, organic potatoes, some fruit and a ton of veggies and I’m neither uncomfortable nor does my life revolve around food. Also, I used to think three whole “Organic” thing was a scam. I’ve been doing it 90-ish % of the time for the last 5-6 weeks and the difference is remarkable. I look, feel and perform better. I’m gaining weight AND getting leaner, while eating a little less protein and way more carbs and natural fats. I’ve made no other changes in that time except adding creatine. If you say it doesn’t work, then you half-assed it or didn’t give it an honest shot. Not saying anyone has to do what I’m doing, but your body most certainly knows the difference between “good” and “bad”. [/quote]
My speculation is that most of the benefits you’ve seen are because of both the higher vitamin and mineral content and the more absorbable forms of those minerals. In effect, how you were eating before left you with some degree of vitamin or mineral deficiency, and now you’re at a more optimal level. Deficiency in the “less than optimal” sense, not “less than the RDA” sense.
I think that “bad” foods with proper supplementation of the right vitamins and minerals, in the right balance, could give you the exact same results. Eating “good” food just makes that easier.
I really think it’s much less about where the protein, carbs and fat comes from, and more about what comes along with them or doesn’t.
[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I agree with all of you that flexible dieting isn’t an excuse to be irresponsible with your nutrition, but it’s not as if a majority of Spidey’s carbs are coming from “bad” foods (if there is such a thing). 500 g of “clean” carbs a day is pretty tough to put down without being extremely uncomfortable or having your life revolve around carrying food. If Spidey were to have a bowl of ice cream every day that he fits into his macros and is still taking care of his micronutrient needs, there will be zero negative impact [/quote]
I eat well over 400g of carbs a day on mostly organic rice, organic potatoes, some fruit and a ton of veggies and I’m neither uncomfortable nor does my life revolve around food. Also, I used to think three whole “Organic” thing was a scam. I’ve been doing it 90-ish % of the time for the last 5-6 weeks and the difference is remarkable. I look, feel and perform better. I’m gaining weight AND getting leaner, while eating a little less protein and way more carbs and natural fats. I’ve made no other changes in that time except adding creatine. If you say it doesn’t work, then you half-assed it or didn’t give it an honest shot. Not saying anyone has to do what I’m doing, but your body most certainly knows the difference between “good” and “bad”. [/quote]
My speculation is that most of the benefits you’ve seen are because of both the higher vitamin and mineral content and the more absorbable forms of those minerals. In effect, how you were eating before left you with some degree of vitamin or mineral deficiency, and now you’re at a more optimal level. Deficiency in the “less than optimal” sense, not “less than the RDA” sense.
I think that “bad” foods with proper supplementation of the right vitamins and minerals, in the right balance, could give you the exact same results. Eating “good” food just makes that easier.
I really think it’s much less about where the protein, carbs and fat comes from, and more about what comes along with them or doesn’t.[/quote]
I was eating basically the exact same things, just non-organic. Was also eating more protein and less carbs.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I was eating basically the exact same things, just non-organic. Was also eating more protein and less carbs. [/quote]
Yeah, that’s exactly what I mean. Organic fruits and vegetables are grown in more mineral rich soil (which end up in the plant) because they can’t use artificial means – chemical and genetic intervention – to make food look healthier than it really is. They have to actually do it right.
There’s all sorts of tricks to grow healthy-looking food in barren minerally-depleted soil. As well as tricks to preserve shelf life.
But basically, what I meant was, by eating majority-organic now, you’re getting (and absorbing) a bunch of vitamins and minerals that you weren’t before.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I was eating basically the exact same things, just non-organic. Was also eating more protein and less carbs. [/quote]
Yeah, that’s exactly what I mean. Organic fruits and vegetables are grown in more mineral rich soil (which end up in the plant) because they can’t use artificial means – chemical and genetic intervention – to make food look healthier than it really is. They have to actually do it right.
There’s all sorts of tricks to grow healthy-looking food in barren minerally-depleted soil. As well as tricks to preserve shelf life.[/quote]
Honestly think the grass fed beef, free range chicken and eggs, etc… have had at least as much impact. Again, I used to think the whole organic thing was bs. I could not have been more wrong. I think anyone interested in their physical development owes it to themselves to try it out.
[quote]csulli wrote:
Actually I wish I had phrased what I said differently, because it was immediately turned to a thing where guys on gear can get away with a worse diet. That’s true, but honestly the point I made about the poptarts, I wasn’t thinking of anyone on gear, only natty guys.
I don’t know much about Stu’s diet, but I know he has about 10000 poptarts at home lol. My training partner Chia is pretty darn IIFYM. He basically eats whatever he wants. He’s sub 10% bf at 181 with a 620 deadlift. A local guy here who is a sponsored physique competitor is also pretty IIFYM. These are all lifetime natty.
Maybe there is a lot of science I don’t know about, but ignoring “health”, we’re just talking building muscle and losing fat. I don’t think your body knows the difference between 1g of carbohydrates that came from processed sugar and 1g of carbohydrates that came from rice or 100 calories from McDonalds vs 100 calories from broccoli. A calorie is a measure of energy and does not change. At the end of the day all carbohydrates are just “hydrates” of carbon atoms. If you can keep the amounts of everything where they should be I don’t see why it should matter from where you got the chemical makeup purely in terms of adding muscle tissue and not adding/reducing fat tissue.
I would never attempt to argue that there aren’t health benefits from eating clean. I just think it’s a separate issue from body shape.[/quote]
This pretty much sums up my thoughts. I believe a person could get just as lean while in a deficit consuming all of their carbs and protein from poptarts and whey as if they consumed identical macros of brown rice and chicken breast. Now, in the long term, I believe this would be extremely irresponsible and an unhealthy body is unlikely to place building muscle or getting shredded high on its priority list. A majority of a flexible dieter’s calories will come from traditional bodybuilding or bro foods if they’re hitting their micronutrient requirements, but there’s nothing wrong with fitting in some “unclean” foods every day. I’m prepping right now, and getting 60 g of carbs from low fat ice cream every day, and leaning up nicely.