first of all I want to apologize to every man, woman, and child who read my thread of a routine I made. Im gonna stick to asking questions. and alot of them…thanks for not disowning me lol…
anywhoo
So since Ive came on these boards Ive read alot about specialization programs such as smolov’s leg program (squat 5x a week), CT’s Gun Show (arm specialization), superhero (gonna start that on monday) ect. ect. so my question is would it be wise (or better) to shift through different specialization routines instead of a regular bulk?
For instance, 4 weeks focus on shoulders, next 4 weeks on legs, then arms, ect. It would still be a “bulking pahase” (assuming muscle gaining is the goal) but just switch specializing muscle groups.
There is some theory to this but let’s put it down in front of you so we can think this out. Let’s say you specialize in 1-2 muscles a time and rotate through the whole body and it looks something like this…
4 Weeks Shoulders
4 Weeks Legs
4 Weeks Arms
4 Weeks Back
4 Weeks Chest
repeat
The thing you have to decide is if the 4 weeks of specialization from shoulders is worth more than 20 weeks of non specialized training. If you think so go for it, I don’t for a second. You can’t really specialize without scaling back on the other training so those muscles will likely stay stagnant or grow much slower than normal.
In my opinion you’d be better served to spend a good amount of time(say two years) building up overall size and seeing where you are at. If after that you have weak shoulders or whatever it may be, then bring them up to match your stronger bodyparts. There’s no sense in trying to wax and polish the car before you welded the frame together yeah?
I hear what your saying but in my opinion you can still get good growth from doing each body part your not specializing in if your volume on the non specialized days is proper.
for instance lets take arms as our specialed muscle
mon-arms
tues-legs
wed-off
thurs-chest, tris
fri-back, bis
sat-shoulders
sun-off
so for your non specialized muscle you use a higher amount of volume and w/o very intensily (like always) so that you NEED them to recover for a week. where as your specialized muscle, in this case arms, will be worked twice a week with a lower volume.
its like one person doing each bp 2x a week and like another person doing each bp 1x a week. it all depends on the volume.
also to add if what your saying is true someone could rotate doing each bp 2x a week weekly. which would focus more as a bulk with a little more “thought” lol
The problem is that there isn’t an unlimited supply of recovery ability, it’s the old rob peter to pay paul scenario. Arms you might be able to get away with not backing off TOO much with your other movements but larger muscle groups like legs or back would run you into the ground trying to up the volume/frequency without reducing(ie gaining less) somewhere else. There is also the problem that with increased frequency you will not be able to fully recover between sessions with a lot of indirect work.
Like that split there, the triceps are going to get pounded. Monday Triceps specializtion work, Thursday Triceps work after chest which uses triceps as well and saturday likely more indirect triceps work. Pressing motions 3 times a week if you want the best movements for each bodypart. You could help eliminate that by maybe only doing laterals for shoulders and fly motions for chest, but we are back at robbing peter to pay paul again. Those aren’t the best movements for growth and you’d be slowing those muscles down.
This is fun to talk about though and I own a program that involves rotating specialization phases(after a general mass phase) so you aren’t the only one who has thought about this. My thoughts are that if it turned out to work better than more people would be talking about it with all the mini experiments that have gone on in the 100 or so years of weight training.
how do u figure it would be less gains. and I agree with u on ur first post, therefore the split would have to “work”. let me give you an example.
for instance:
week 1 -arms
mon-arms
tues-legs
wed-off
thurs-chest, tris
fri-back, bis
sat-shoulders
sun-off
week 2 -legs
m-legs
t-chest, tris
w-back, bis
th-off
f-legs
s-shoulders
s-off
week 3 -chest
m-chest, tris
t-back, bis
w-shoulders
th-off
f-chest
s-legs
s-off
so it does take a little extra thinking I give you that but I disagree that it will give u less gains. It may even give u more due to the �??shock�?? value or doing high volume for 1x a week muscle and then a big �??shock�?? when you all of a sudden hit it twice a week hard imo
On paper it seems like it fits fine and honestly will probably work for you if you try it. That being said I have to see it like this.
If you are training all out, balls to the wall take no prisoners each session and for this say we are talking legs. Week 1 you do legs and slam them, needing the week recovery like you said, come week 2 you can’t possibly train them as hard both times so you have to ease up slightly to be able to recover in time for your next session. Agreed? Because the rest of my post is based on that so if you don’t agree no need to read further haha and we will discuss that point.
So over that 3 weeks is it worth it to you to have 2 100% leg sessions and 2 70%(hypothetical numbers of course) leg sessions or would you be better off with 3 100% sessions. If you choose the second one then you are back at once a week regular training. If you choose the first then you have to figure well if the 2 70% sessions are better than 1 100% session why you don’t just train like that all the time. You couldn’t say it’s 4 100% sessions otherwise it would still take the week to recover.
I could see a way this would work with set rep parameters but I’ll leave that to you to propose/figure out. How would you arrange this exercise wise, sets, reps, to failure not to failure, advanced techniques?
I’ve come to decide in recent months that as far as bulking goes I’m better off doing whole body a couple times a week.
I throw in some assitance work when I’m at home, but it’s pretty time efficient to only hit the gym 3 times a week, too.
I’d say you need to just try it and see what works for you. Over the years I’ve done just about every kind of program, and if something looks really good I keep an open mind and I might give it a try when my current training cycle is over.
for your first paragraph I DO agree. for the week I do legs 2x I WOULD have to “ease up” but when I say ease up I dont mean ease up on going balls to the wall I mean ease up on volume. thats what Ive mentioned in my previous posts and like what you said in your last paragraph heres a quick set/rep scheme of what I mean:
legs 1x a week
squats 5x12-15
leg press or deadlift (depending on where back is) 5x12-15
extension
ss
curls 3x12-15
calf work 5-6 sets
legs 2x a week
squat 5x12-15
leg press 4x12-15
extension
ss
curls 2x12-15
calf work 3-4 sets
so I can still go hard just lower the volume and make sure I recover in 3 or 4 days. Im still giving 100% each workout just cutting the volume. but with this 2x a week scheme for different muscle I can shock the muscle which could lead to MORE growth! because thats the name of the game is shocking muscles in to growth and maybe on one day for the specialized do 1 set of 100 for HUGE shock! just a thought but thats the great thing is this is a thought process and theres alot of options to achieve amazing goals!
I also want to say thanks for having this conversation with me your really making me think about this and challenging me just like im challengin you back and thats when we/people can relly learn things
I made a really long nice detailed post but it got deleted when they asked me to log back in so…
Your plan is based on good ideas now(although I think you need to lower volume further for 2xweek) and if you are happy with it then try it out. I think there is a way to train the muscles on nearly the same pace as the “shock” phase without necessitating rotating the emphasis. If you want to go in that direction then let me know, if not try out your plan as you have listed.
Did you not get enough advice over at Draper’s site?
You posted the same thread and got some SOLID advice from well seasoned old-timers.
It appears that you prefer to spend all of your time overthinking this shit and posting in forums rather than getting your ass working in the gym and the kitchen.
haha jb man chill are you kidding I got AMAZING advice from the draper guys but one thing people have taught me is that everyones different and have different opinions so I wanted to be able to get more than just one site’s opinion. now with that said back off because I dont need 24 hrs to lift I need almost an hour therefore I have alot of time to discuss this stuff when its late and Im about to go to bed.
If you’ve read this thread you can see its not me just asking a bajillion questions (besides the first lol) me and scott are having a conversation about different ways to train which is what this site and draper and bb.com ect. are all about. like I said though draper always gives me good advice.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
I made a really long nice detailed post but it got deleted when they asked me to log back in so…
Your plan is based on good ideas now(although I think you need to lower volume further for 2xweek) and if you are happy with it then try it out. I think there is a way to train the muscles on nearly the same pace as the “shock” phase without necessitating rotating the emphasis. If you want to go in that direction then let me know, if not try out your plan as you have listed. [/quote]
Hmmm…and what might that be Scott?
Anyhow, I’ve been following this discussion and while I think bmar’s idea might work, Scott has made some pretty convincing arguments that there might be a better way of going about this.
Bmar, Scott brought up a question to you earlier that I don’t think you’ve really addressed. So, I’ll try to elaborate on it.
Basically, why do you feel that doing a 2xweek every few weeks for a body part is going to result in more growth than 1xweek? I’m not saying that the logic is wrong, I’m just trying to get you to really think about why you feel that would be better. You mentioned “shock” before, but what exactly do you mean by that?
If you are suggesting that it will lead to better growth because the frequency is higher, then why not just up your frequency every week? If you are suggesting that it’s due to higher total volume for the week, then why not just up the volume for the one single workout?
I’m not arguing that you’re wrong. Once again I’m just trying to get you to really think through this and get to the heart of your line of thinking. What is the fundamental basis for your wanting to do this? Why do you think it will work better?
Ok, so here’s another question that might help you get to the bottom of your thinking process. What are you trying to accomplish? Building muscle, right? So, what builds muscle?
I’m confused can somebody please teach me terminology?
I always thought bulking was for dieting purposes meaning eating pretty heavy to gain muscle. In otherwords you can bulk and specialize. And specialization meant prioritizing your routine around a specific area.
Is there now a specific “regular bulk” routine?
I think I understand what your talking about…a regular bulk routine is a 3,4,5,6 day split or fullbody ect ect but where the actual “bulk” comes in is the nutrition part of lifting weights. eating an excess of proteins and calories and eating clean to lessen fat gains.
now a SPECIFIC bulk is where a bodybuilder would lets say have a lagging back. so he does just enough volume where his other muscles just get maintained and he hits his back hard usually 2x a week (3x depending on ths split) so his back will catch up making him look more proportioned.
to answer your second question Im not going to “technically” specialze but what Im going to do is switch each muscles every week so i can hit one 2x instead of one a week. but if you noticed the mock routine I made up a few posts earlier eventhough a certain muscle is hit 2x a week you’ll notice that each muscle only gets 4-6 days rest so Im never giving it a full week which in my opinion is too much time so without making this anymore confusing than I sure I am (lol) its still a bulk routine its just a different way of doing things.
If you’d like I could draw up the full routine and post it and maybe that would give you a better understanding. but look at my post with a routine a little ways up there that gives you an idea what im going to do!
Oh I wasn’t sure sometimes bodybuilders have specific definitions for things like intensity and stuff like that. I thought maybe there was some new bulking routine.
The reason I asked about your reason for specializing is that this post is in the beginners section. So I have no clue if you have a foundation or not. Most of the time a person would specialize for an entire cycle if they feel they have a lagging body part. Or see a specific muscle they NEED to target.
If not, you are wasting time specializing. I’m not saying your routine won’t get results just that the time your are lowering the intensity for your other body parts could be better spent getting them big also.
The other thing about being a beginner is that you use lower weights and respond differently to volume then an experienced person. If you truly are a beginner then your right 1 week is too long 2 and 3x a week will get you bigger. You should probably hit every muscle this way until they can handle heavier weights that require long recovery and you can see which muscles need specialization and which ones don’t.
this is in the bodybuilding section not the beginning section…unless theres an “advanced” section I dont know about. but by no means am I saying Im advanced but Im no beginner trust me. Ive got some good foundation but Im a naturally skinny kid so Im pretty lean now. no skinny, not huge, but lean.
Like I said my routine isnt a cycled specialization and it shouldnt evem be considered specialized but all Im sayin is by the switch from 2x a week per on muscle different weeks it gives muscles shock value and witht the other muscle they are still being hit every 4-5 days which imo is optimal. so its not s speicialized routine its just a more thought out bulk.
The forest gets thicker the deeper you get into a training career. At first, there aren’t too many trees, so you can run in a pretty straight line. You bump into a tree once in awhile, but it’s no big deal and you keep going.
After you’ve been running for awhile, you get deep into the forest, and you encounter more trees…so many that you keep slamming into them and can’t run in a straight line anymore. This doesn’t happen for many years.
At this point, you have to zigzag…it’s faster than running in a straight line because you avoid the trees. Obviously, it isn’t as fast as running in a straight line w/ no trees, but now you have no choice.
What’s the point? If you haven’t encountered a lot of trees yet, run in a straight line.
