On the question of whether to stack with MAG-10 or not: I wouldn’t do it. Not because of harm but it’s pretty much a question of, after using the MAG-10 at 2x/day anything further that might happen is well into the zone of diminishing returns.
In other words, if you’ve seen a dose-response curve, I would want the 11-T to be working from baseline and thus giving as much bang as it can, rather than having it have to fight to get the last nudge in on the curve.
Besides, if dose is sufficient (but only then) a given total amount spread over 2 cycles does more than the same amount packed into 1 cycle.
It’s a different story when “adding more” to a cycle does not have a price issue for the given person, and I know for some people indeed $124.95 is just “dinner for two at Ruth’s Chris” money or what have you.
Or when someone has gotten as far as they can at a given level of hormonal enhancement and therefore ought to do more to get further results. So this advice not to do it wouldn’t always apply but it probably usually does.
Thanks, Modok! And thanks Retailboy, too. Though “mastermind” is surely going too far.
Caselorance, while there is a targeted effect according to tissue type, I don’t believe it’s the case that some muscles will be targeted differently than other muscles.
But if you meant, that cortisol problems that aggravate fat are improved in a way that doesn’t cause joint problems or any of the problems associated with non-targeted cortisol inhibition, e.g. heavy use of Cytradren, and that that will help you with dieting off fat, then yes.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
On the question of whether to stack with MAG-10 or not: I wouldn’t do it. Not because of harm but it’s sort of like a question of, after using the MAG-10 at 2x/day anything further that might happen is well into the zone of diminishing returns.
In other words, if you’ve seen a dose-response curve, I would want the 11-T to be working from baseline and thus giving as much bang as it can, rather than having it have to fight to get the last nudge in on the curve.
Besides, if dose is sufficient (but only then) a given total amount spread over 2 cycles does more than the same amount packed into 1 cycle.
It’s a different story when “adding more” to a cycle does not have a price issue the given person, and I know for some people indeed $124.95 is just “dinner for two at Ruth’s Chris” money or what have.
Or when someone has gotten as far as they can at a given level of hormonal enhancement and therefore ought to do more to get further results. So this advice not to do it wouldn’t always apply but it probably usually does.[/quote]
Thanks Bill. Exactly what I was looking for. I will refrain from using them together and will try the 11-T first so I can post my results. I’ve only used MAG-10 twice and both times I gained over 10lbs each time. I’m excited to see what this does for me.
Would you recommend this to someone who has reached their natural potential or more for a young buck who just peaked 225 on his bench and is looking to add some serious muscle?
Of course, the marketing answer is both, but which is this product really more useful to?
So say one did use this before the age of 21 but used a lower dosage. What would be an appropriate dose? Or would 35 sprays still apply to the situation?
More useful to someone who has reached, or pretty much so, their natural potential. Because the young buck’s problem, if he’s not making further gains right now, isn’t lack of added hormones, it’s that he needs to find the training or nutrition improvement that will get him improving again.
While the 11-T would give him an improvement, it would be addressing what is not the actual problem and won’t tend to result in finding the solutions to the actual problem (training and/or nutrition, in that case.)
[quote]TheBigV wrote:
Would you recommend this to someone who has reached their natural potential or more for a young buck who just peaked 225 on his bench and is looking to add some serious muscle?[/quote]
I’m going to go ahead and guess that you’ve probably not peaked yet.
Exciting product guys, but can’t say it’s in my budget at the moment. I’ll be sticking to Grow!, fish oil and creatine.
I would think weight would effect how much of a dose you really need, especially at the price of this product. What would you say the optimal dose is for:
150lbs
175lbs
200lbs
225lbs
Also would it be best to use this in the morning when cortisol is the highest?
Cortisol is a catabolic hormone, how would it help store fat if it activates lipolysis or does 17-ADR shuttles more cortisol to fat and away from muscle?
[quote]BeforeIforget wrote:
So say one did use this before the age of 21 but used a lower dosage. What would be an appropriate dose? Or would 35 sprays still apply to the situation?[/quote]
It would be just pure guesswork. No way to say.
There is a point though that it’s somewhat debatable on this question when naming a specific age as a cutoff. For example, I didn’t gain any further skeletal or untrained muscle size past age 18. (Other aspects of physical maturation such as facial and chest hair weren’t completed by that time though.) In some there’s significant growth between 21 and 25.
So as a personal decision, obviously there’s not much difference between say 20 years 6 months and 21 years on the dot; and in the former case someone might know that really nothing has happened for the last 2 years anyway while in another case, someone knows that the last year has seen something. So it’s not really a black and white, on/off situation, but when writing a label it’s necessary to have something that is clear and is generally suitable.
will it cause any joint problems.
and would it be usefull for coming off cycles.
what kind of strength gains could be expected if training level is good and the buzz is that like a positive aggression or more like an energy supplement. thanks sound cool
[quote]flightposite wrote:
will it cause any joint problems.
and would it be usefull for coming off cycles.[/quote]
There should be no joint problems.
Using twice a day when coming off a cycle would be bad idea, in my opinion, because I expect it would be inhibitory, but morning-only application, preferably with a shower with thorough soaping to applied areas in the evening or late afternoon, would probably still allow recovery.
I base that on morning-only use of oral androgens being able to allow recovery in a way that dosage giving fairly steady levels does not.
It also worked with Androsol.
So I think it would with the 11-T, though that hasn’t been specifically tested in terms of actual measurements. I did use it morning-only in the second week of two off weeks of a steroid cycle and it seemed to me (for example judging from sex drive) that there was no impairment in T. But that doesn’t really prove the issue, as T production was already recovered (as recovery is very quick with 2 week cycles) and also it was subjective, with no physical measurement.
Great job Bill and Biotest! I have been wondering for a long time when someone would come out with a good natually occuring 11-HD1 inhibitor. This product should be a big hit if it ever drops into the semi affordable range. I don’t see anyone but the truly hardcore (or wealthy) buying it at the current price.