Something Wicked This Way Comes... Again

Nutrition
81

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
yeah, the spray does come off gimmicky. But, if these guys feel it’s the best delivery system available who am I to argue.

I take it that you never used Androsol or Nandrosol.

Those were two of the best supps I’ve ever used. Properly designed sprays are definitely not a gimmick in my book.

Do a search and see how much people liked them.[/quote]

never even heard of them.

I did try Testrogel when it came out years ago (I think my 1st year of college). It was the gel you rubbed on your body. I drove 45 miles to get it for $90-$110 (can’t recall exactly). What a waste that was.

82

A couple of hopefully quick questions:

How useful is this on a cutting diet? And how well does it play with an ECA stack?

83

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
yeah, the spray does come off gimmicky. But, if these guys feel it’s the best delivery system available who am I to argue.

I take it that you never used Androsol or Nandrosol.

Those were two of the best supps I’ve ever used. Properly designed sprays are definitely not a gimmick in my book.

Do a search and see how much people liked them.[/quote]

Androsol was pretty decent. It was my first real foray into the world of prohormones and was quite happy with the results.

Nandrosol…zip. Nada. I could have sprayed myself with isopropyl alcohol and gotten similar effects.

84

[quote]Kuz wrote:
Is 11-T contraindicated with any supplements or medications?[/quote]

I would say rather that it’s contraindicated with serious medical conditions in general. Not because of interactions with medications, but just because any sort of divergence from the normal hormonal environment can be unpredictable with such conditions.

But if let’s say the medication is an anti-depressant or a pain medication or a cholesterol lowering drug (and cholesterol is not at a dangerous level) then personally I wouldn’t be concerned.

85

isn’t a post cycle therapy required for this stuff? as with all hormonal products?

honestly, if i were to ever go into prohormone territory, I would have just picked up some H-drol for 25 bucks, enough for a 4 week cycle. Then get some reversitol or 6-oxo for PCT.

86

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
LOLZ!

A SPRAY!?

If I’m gonna spend $200+ on any substance that’s supposed to make me bigger, faster, and stronger it better be

A) Something that goes directly into my blood!

B) 20 Pounds of Whey Protein.

I gotta give props for referencing one of the best movie scenes I’ve seen in a while, but I thought Biotest had more backbone than this. Even other companies who tout having “steroid-like” products with steroid-sounding names don’t put up products in this price bracket.

yeah, the spray does come off gimmicky. But, if these guys feel it’s the best delivery system available who am I to argue.

At least it’s not BSN coming out with this. The reputation of a company should be the deciding factor in something like this. Not the lack of good products like it from other non-reputable companies.

Dude, don’t knock BSN too hard. They haven’t released a spray.

And a skin spray has to be one of the worst delivery methods for anything. Defiantly lower than pill form. I doubt even 40% of this stuff gets absorbed.

This skin isn’t exactly designed to absorb stuff. If you want something in your blood, scientifically speaking you gotta go with swallowing it, snorting it, sticking it up your ass, or injecting it.

Why someone would purchase this product over actual testosterone is beyond me.

Then look at the BSN Line. Most of their products are either fat-burners/energy stimulants that deliver results because their chock full of caffeine or they’re copy-cat products of weight-gainers and muscle-milk. I’m not saying BSN is better than Biotest.

I’m just saying I wouldn’t even expect this kind of a bullshit product from them because I don’t think they sell total bullshit products.

Maybe Biotest thinks they need to deviate from their more basic product line. An energy suppliment (Spike) that doesn’t promise an energy buzz with some secret ingredients or any bullshit - just a ton of caffeine.

That’s an honest product. Metabolic Drive but just a little bit better than what the old Met-Rx was - another honest product. Surge: a ton of BCAAs and easily digestible sugars for replenishing glycogen stores - another honest product. Biotest’s Creatine - fuck, it’s creatine.

Biotest should have just kept making staple products like this that obviously work. If they’re really hurting for a new product, then make something with Waxy Maize. Hell, make an NO product.

Who are they kidding? They’re not going to attract the 16 year old crowd whose still paying the Weider tax by buying a bunch of fake-steroid products because those kids don’t have the cash to drop to pay for this stuff. [/quote]

I give them credit for at least TRYING to come out with new and innovative products. Is it a little gimmicky? Yes of course, so is this whole website and most of there products. Do most of there products work better then other competetion products?

Yes yet they are also pricey because of it. Are real steroids better? Yes but its illegal. MAG-10 seemed to be pretty popular with a lot of people so I’ll give this product the benefit of the doubt. Also most of biotests products are pricey, yet some people actually have quite the disposable income to try these products out.

I don’t have the money for nearly anything other then protein and creatine and food-and no drugs or supplements should replace the staple of food-, but be interesting to see how people respond to this product.

87

[quote]bobo86 wrote:
honestly, if i were to ever go into prohormone territory, I would have just picked up some H-drol for 25 bucks, enough for a 4 week cycle. Then get some reversitol or 6-oxo for PCT.[/quote]

LMAO!

Yeah, resveratrol is the ultimate in PCT.

88

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
And a skin spray has to be one of the worst delivery methods for anything. Defiantly lower than pill form. I doubt even 40% of this stuff gets absorbed.

This skin isn’t exactly designed to absorb stuff. If you want something in your blood, scientifically speaking you gotta go with swallowing it, snorting it, sticking it up your ass, or injecting it.

Why someone would purchase this product over actual testosterone is beyond me. [/quote]

Well, let’s see. I have 4 years of graduate research in transdermal delivery and 5 published scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals (J Pharm Sci and Int J Pharm) in the field of transdermal delivery and your expertise is, what?

You are simply factually wrong claiming that a “pill” of 17-ADR would be more bioavailable. Did it even occur to you that taking it orally is the first thing we tried?

It’s true that there’s a ton of transdermal systems that don’t work well and have very poor bioavailability. The system I invented in contrast is highly effective, as both Androsol users and blood studies we had done for that product can testify.

Your final conclusion, Why would anyone buy this over testosterone, is what really ices the cake on the quality of your objections.

Perhaps you aren’t aware but whether cost efficiency of a legal product is equal to injected black market testosterone has NEVER been the standard and cannot be the standard. If it were the standard, there would be no supplements beyond protein and multivitamin/multiminerals.

For that matter, there wouldn’t even be any other anabolic steroids except testosterone. Very few if any of them are as cheap and price-effective as it is. Why do people pay the premium for say a product like oxandrolone?

Because of not wanting to inject, not wanting the estrogenic side effects, not wanting the DHT side effects, or all of the above. That’s getting off the subject though.

But if injected testosterone is the comparison you personally want to make, then I believe even Homer Simpson could tell you that you will get more bang for the buck with black market testosterone. D’oh! No one ever said or implied otherwise. Where you thought anyone did, I can’t imagine.

89

[quote]bobo86 wrote:
isn’t a post cycle therapy required for this stuff? as with all hormonal products?[/quote]
Not if the duration of use recommendation is followed.

The body’s feedback mechanism for sex hormones is interesting and actually has a lot of inputs to it besides simply levels of estrogen and androgen hormones.

It also is not simple negative feedback (where having more of the output product results in less stimulus for the product being produced) but includes positive feedback aspects, where higher levels of the output product actually result in MORE stimulus to produce it.

The reason for this probably is that cyclical systems require a positive feedback aspect, and the female hormonal system is of course cyclic. Men use the same pituitary and hypothalamus as women, and so some of the characteristics of our response mechanism may be shared (that part is just a theory; the rest is fact.)

Anyway, in the initial phase of exposure to androgen, the hypothalamus actually becomes MORE responsive than normal to LHRH, and so is in a state where recovery is extremely easy and fast upon ending exposure to androgen (and to estrogen, if applicable, but there is no added exposure to estrogen with 11-T).

However past day 14, LHRH responsiveness goes well below baseline.

So limiting usage to 2 weeks allows recovery without any PCT drugs.

90

[quote]yakbutter wrote:
I bought some. I will report my results. Bill, the idea here is to eat a ton when you cycle the spray, right?[/quote]

Well, actually I don’t believe in a gross caloric excess in any cycle. Putting on fat too fast results in too much time later wasted, in terms of being available for any strength or size gains.

For a younger guy – and I can’t really define a cut-off, but as an illustration mid-40’s is an older guy whereas mid-20’s is younger – a 1000/cal day excess over normal maintenance has been my usual recommendation during gaining cycles.

For an older guy that is probably overkill: 500 cal/day of quality diet over usual maintenance probably gives as good muscle gains as a higher amount, and saves 1 lb of fat gain each week compared to a 1000 cal/day increase, assuming that in fact the difference doesn’t go to muscle.

In the first few days the carb increase can be more, as probably an extra couple thousand calories worth of glycogen stores (personal guess, I have zero scientific facts to back that up) can be added in that time.

I have become a big believer in targeting the timing of the nutrition though. I’m not sure if Chris Shugart invented the idea or wrote the article, but the double Surge concept was a good one.

Personally on a cycle I use 3 scoops Surge plus 45 g glucose (plus BCAA’s and other crap) preworkout, the same at the 1 hour point, and then a Metabolic Drive Complete snd an entire can of yams at the 2 hour point after the workout (without the sugar syrup) so yes, it’s eating a ton of carbs at the time. But the overall day is not a ton of food all day.

(Of course that’s in those cases where the plan at that time is a 2 hour workout, which is not always the case. I know that seemingly every professional trainer here advises going past 1 hour, but it’s doable with the juice, BCAA’s, beta alanine, ribose, and anti-oxidants.)

91

What exactly would happen if at 17 i took this

92

[quote]SBT wrote:
Question for ya, Mr. Roberts:

I know it’s not the big bang that everyone’s excited about, but TC mentioned feeling a buzz from 11-T. How would this compare to the sense of wellbeing 4-AD-EC provided (if it’s possible to compare)? Or is a pretty individual thing, and I should just keep my fingers crossed?

Thanks!

By the way, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s always great to have you around.[/quote]
Thanks, SBT!

I’d guess it’s an individual thing. For example, personally I really don’t notice “feel” from anabolic steroids in general, and myself did not from MAG-10 or 4-AD-EC, though Androsol did give me a very positive feel, and Dianabol has had a positive feel for me.

But generally no. And I don’t experience a feel from 11-T. On the other hand, Tim gets a very strong feel from it, and – I hadn’t known this – it seems TC got a buzz as well. So definitely it depends on the person.

93

Was looking good until I came across…

This product contains substances that may cause testicle shrinkage and infertility in males; and increased facial and body hair, voice deepening, and clitoral enlargement in females.

94

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
bobo86 wrote:
honestly, if i were to ever go into prohormone territory, I would have just picked up some H-drol for 25 bucks, enough for a 4 week cycle. Then get some reversitol or 6-oxo for PCT.

LMAO!

Yeah, resveratrol is the ultimate in PCT.[/quote]

im not talking about just trans-resveratrol, im refering to a PCT product by name.

95

[quote]nephorm wrote:
If someone were to have some MAG-10 frozen and awaiting use, would it be opportune to combine 11-T with the MAG-10 cycle?[/quote]

x2

I just ordered the two-pack.

I have a stockpile of destroyer in my freezer. It sounds like it would work best stacked with the MAG-10…or would it be better used during the two “off” weeks?

I’ll report my results back in the future…but I’m just coming off a three month long elbow injury so I have a lot of ground to make up before I will use it.

96

What the hell, I’ll be one of the few guinea pigs. :slight_smile:

I’m bulking right now anyways!

97

[quote]wakiki wrote:
Was looking good until I came across…

This product contains substances that may cause testicle shrinkage and infertility in males; and increased facial and body hair, voice deepening, and clitoral enlargement in females.[/quote]

That is our standard warning for hormone products. With 2 week cycles there would be zero risk of infertility, and either zero or next-to-no risk of noticeable testicular shrinkage in that period.

Testicular shrinkage when it does occur from hormone use reverses quickly as soon as LH levels come back up. It has never been a complaint of any user of 2 week cycles so far as I know.

On the warnings regarding females: they could be applicable even with greatly reduced dose and even if duration of use was very short, so, don’t do it.

98

Very exciting. I have been a Biotest cutomer and T-Mag reader since 1999, and I still remember Androsol. I def got a bit of a buzz from it, and felt great while on. For those that think this is a gimmick - give it a shot, there’s a money back guarantee. These guys have never steered me wrong.

99

[quote]crod266 wrote:
What exactly would happen if at 17 i took this[/quote]
Probably no adverse effect but physical maturation is a complex and incompletely understood process. There is no way to know that there might be a long-term outcome that would outweigh any immediate benefits.

Well, there would be a way, with identical twin studies, but I’d consider it unethical to do the study, and I think so would any independent review board.

Hey, at 17 you have great gains available to you “just” from getting the training and nutrition right. Really and truly.

100

Sooo, I just want to know if this means you can isolate certain areas of muscle to prevent cortisol
while the rest of the unaffected areas remain subject to catabolism…?

if that’s the case
i’m gonna have to get this when i’m done gaining weight… holy shit
that’s what I’ve been looking for for like…
a couple years
I seriously was getting to the verge of drastic measures
LIKE DRASTIC
you wouldn’t believe, like you’d call me crazy
but this is the shit, what a break through
of course I trust Testosterone with my body
any day of the week