[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Two applications is not being wasted: it will be more effective than one dose.
However, it might be the case that 2x/day dosing may not give twice the amount of improvement that 1x/day does, but some lesser multiple.
Not that this figure has any particular truth to it, but for the sake of discussion let’s say that 2x/day dosing for a given user under a given training and diet situation will give him 1.5 times the results (compared to not using the product.)
Well, is the diminishing return “worth it”?
That will depend on how much he personally values the extra 50% improvement and on his financial situation and how the two factors work together. There is no way for an outside person to say whether it is then worth it for him to use 2x/day instead of 1x.[/quote]
Just to clarify is this to say that with all being constant, given a 14 week period, running at 2x/day for 2 cycles < running at 1x/day for 4 cycles?
Sorry just want to make 100% I’m understanding this.
Actually I was addressing the question of economizing by using half as much.
On the question of whether half dose for twice as many total weeks is better or worse, this is much more a mixed issue.
With anabolic steroids or MAG-10 results have been that for fat loss the half-the-dose-for-twice-as-many cycles can get more out of a given amount of those items, whereas with mass gain breaking a threshold can be more important, or really just the key factor, and full dose for the shorter number of cycles can be more effective.
Not in terms of rate, as it takes twice as long, but final outcome.
Bill, if i were going to use a pro-hormone along with 11-T, would adding Carbolin 19-19 to the mix make any sense?
Isn’t one of the mechanisms of Carbolin 19-19 increases in endogenous Testosterone–if that’s the case, it seems to me that using it along with substances that will inhibit endogenous T production would be counterproductive, or at the very least wasteful.
On a related note, in your opinion is Carbolin 19-19 (along with Rez-V and a tribulis based Testosterone stimulator) strong enough for PCT if I’m running a 4-6 week cycle of 11-T and a pro-hormone, or will I need a pharmeceutical like Clomid/Nolva?
Bill, I have another question about 11-T. How long after an application is maximum absorption reached?
That is, if I apply a dose then shower with SOAP AND WATER 3 or 4 hours later will the 11-T have reached maximum absorption, or will I be removing some of the compound that could still be absorbed through my skin–should one wait as close as possible to 12 hrs. before showering again with soap and water?
[quote]crowbar46 wrote:
Bill, I have another question about 11-T. How long after an application is maximum absorption reached?
That is, if I apply a dose then shower with SOAP AND WATER 3 or 4 hours later will the 11-T have reached maximum absorption, or will I be removing some of the compound that could still be absorbed through my skin–should one wait as close as possible to 12 hrs. before showering again with soap and water?
Thanks,
Crowbar[/quote]
You only have to wait 2-3 minutes to put clothes on (I give it 5 for good measure), so I’m sure waiting a few hours then showering would be completely fine.
So far as being dry and non-sticky and not transferring to clothes, indeed a few minutes is enough.
However so far as showering with soap is concerned, that would be removing adhered 11-T. Simply rinsing with water won’t, but soap will, and/or towelling. So application is best timed so that one application (or both applications, if showering with soap and/or towelling 2x/day) is or are shortly after showering.
Ok applied my first dose this am. It was much more of a pain the ass than I had expected. It seemed I quickly ran out of places to spray before getting near 35. My back was almost impossible. It was too hard to keep it the recommended 6-8 inches away. I pulled a muscle in my shoulder trying to do it!
Tonight with my 2nd application, I’ll try a different approach. Spraying the arms and lower legs seemed like it allowed some to spray wider than the surface area and therefore losing a tiny bit. And at this price I want to waste NONE. I guess eventually I’ll develop a system.
But I’ve recorded my weight, bf% and LMM as according to my Tanita BC scale so we’ll see what changes, if any, occur in 2 weeks time. But I did train very hard today. It was a psychological boost knowing I’m using the spray so I’d better give it my all otherwise what’s the point?
Assuming one responds well to Rhodiola Rosea, would you say the two - Rhodiola Rosea and 11-T - would work synergistically to lower cortisol and hence enhance the intended effect of 11-T itself?
[quote]1morerep wrote:
Ok applied my first dose this am. It was much more of a pain the ass than I had expected. It seemed I quickly ran out of places to spray before getting near 35. My back was almost impossible. It was too hard to keep it the recommended 6-8 inches away. I pulled a muscle in my shoulder trying to do it!
Tonight with my 2nd application, I’ll try a different approach. Spraying the arms and lower legs seemed like it allowed some to spray wider than the surface area and therefore losing a tiny bit. And at this price I want to waste NONE. I guess eventually I’ll develop a system. [/quote]
Coming from someone who used quite a bit of Androsol and Nandrosol, I can say that spraying is quick and easy once you get the hang of it.
It probably takes me less than 30 seconds to get 70+ sprays on my entire body.
[quote]Mod Brian wrote:
1morerep wrote:
Ok applied my first dose this am. It was much more of a pain the ass than I had expected. It seemed I quickly ran out of places to spray before getting near 35. My back was almost impossible. It was too hard to keep it the recommended 6-8 inches away. I pulled a muscle in my shoulder trying to do it!
Tonight with my 2nd application, I’ll try a different approach. Spraying the arms and lower legs seemed like it allowed some to spray wider than the surface area and therefore losing a tiny bit. And at this price I want to waste NONE. I guess eventually I’ll develop a system.
Coming from someone who used quite a bit of Androsol and Nandrosol, I can say that spraying is quick and easy once you get the hang of it.
It probably takes me less than 30 seconds to get 70+ sprays on my entire body.[/quote]
x2. Took me a few applications to get the hang up of it. Makes it easier if someone can spray your back, but it can be done alone. You can get the back of your hamstrings which is usually where I place my last 2 sprays when alone
I was wondering if the effects of 11-T continue for any length of time after the 2 week cycle has ended. Also, any info on just how long of a break to take between cycles? It says 2-4 weeks but how do you choose if it should be 2, 3 or 4? Vague info like this kinda grinds my gears if you know what I mean. Thx
One would choose whether 2, 3 or 4 weeks inbetween based on personal preference and factors such as money available, dieting plans, and training cycles if employing periodized methods.
And also on how many cycles one was planning to do. If only a few, then the shortest of those choices for off time would be fine; if planning on using on an ongoing basis then the four week break inbetween would be best.
Ongoing effect is likely to end probably 3 or 4 days after ending use. However the effect of having less fat or more muscle does not have to disappear. However, a case of Ding-Dongs, Ring-Dings, Ho-Ho’s, or Hostess Cupcakes would surely get the fat right back, for example.
So, I haven’t seen any post that describe awesome results from 11-T. There are a couple reviewers that seem to think the 11-T helped, but at $125 a bottle, do we have anyone that has had undoubtedly great results from using this product?
I am going to be starting a high intensity phase in January with maximal strength and maximal muscle gain as my top 2 priorities. I have collected several supplements over the course of the last year including: unopened M-Drol, unopened P-Plex, unopened Stoked (resveratrol), 1/2 bottle 12 Oxodrol, 1/4 bottle of T-Drive (for recovery), some protective supps like milk thistle, and I will pick up a couple Biotest products between now and the new year; considering 11-T and Receptormax in addition to protein products, HRX, and Surge.
So, I will come up with an intelligent way to stack and cycle these products, but I’m wondering if 11-T will be of any use to me during this cycle… that is, if it works - if it will add value to my upcoming ‘bulk’ phase.
[quote]stevehnsn wrote:
So, I haven’t seen any post that describe awesome results from 11-T. There are a couple reviewers that seem to think the 11-T helped, but at $125 a bottle, do we have anyone that has had undoubtedly great results from using this product?
Reflect.[/quote]
I made a thread or 2 about it in T-Cell Alpha.
I loved the results. First trial making no dietary or exercise changes increased my body weight 2 lbs and reduced body fat by 2-3%.
2nd trial run increasing calories and exercise volume led to another 6 lbs increase in 2 weeks.
Others have reported several pounds increased.
IMO, it’s the one supplement that you can see a direct immediated benefit from.
Creatine is another one, beta-alanine takes a little longer to show it’s affects, but from a muscle building/sparring effect 11-T rocks.
[quote]stevehnsn wrote:
So, I haven’t seen any post that describe awesome results from 11-T. There are a couple reviewers that seem to think the 11-T helped, but at $125 a bottle, do we have anyone that has had undoubtedly great results from using this product? [/quote]
What do you consider “awesome” results?
From what I’ve seen posted, the average Testosterone Nation member has gained 4 to 6 pounds of muscle while losing 2 pounds of fat over a 2 week period with 11-T.
