-
Horizontal Push/Pull
a1. Incline Bench Press- 5x5
a2. Barbell Row- 5x5
b1. Close Grip Bench Press- 4x8
b2. Dumbell Row- 4x8
c. Preacher Curl- 3x12
-
Quad-Dominant Lower Body
a. Barbell Squat- 5x5
b. Split Squat- 4x8
c. Pull-through- 3x12
d. Standing Calf Raise- 3x15
e. Abs (your choice)
-
Vertical Push/Pull
a1. Push Press- 5x5
a2. Lat Pulldown- 5x5
b1. Seated Dumbell Press- 4x8
b2. Weighted Close Grip Supinated Chins- 4x8
c. Lateral Raise- 3x12
-
Hip-Dominant Lower Body
a. Snatch-Grip Deadlift- 5x5
b. Barbell Step-up- 4x8
c. Hyperextension- 3x12
d. Seated Calf Raise- 3x15
e. Abs (your choice)
This is a good program far superior to teh first or second one u’ve proposed. I may be partial b/c i tend to like pushpull more thanbody part split, but this program definitely addresses the entire body and will get u whereu need to be.
A couple problems slashquestions for fightingtiger.
Why lat pulldown rather than weighted pull-up
?
My only other nitpicky thing would be to use different rep ranges for ur calves.say 3x15 for standing but then 4x6 or something for seated to better stimulate a larger range of muscle fibers
I find it interesting that both of you only suggested one(preacher curls) bicep exercise. Why is that ,will I develop large biceps from only 1 direct excercise ,as well why do you recommend 12 reps as opposed to doing 4-6 reps?
Thank you
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
I find it interesting that both of you only suggested one(preacher curls) bicep exercise. Why is that ,will I develop large biceps from only 1 direct excercise ,as well why do you recommend 12 reps as opposed to doing 4-6 reps?
Thank you [/quote]
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm
I have been training for 27 years and have coach and train athlets both in bodybuilding and powerlifting . I would still consider training program of 3x a week or everyother day regimen as the most effective offseason schedule for non steroid user athlets. By the way, what is your goal in your program? competitive bodybuilding? how long have you been training? your biceps triceps and shoulder program is too much. what is the use of your squat? strenght? your legs respond better to atleast 10 reps to bulk up.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
I find it interesting that both of you only suggested one(preacher curls) bicep exercise. Why is that ,will I develop large biceps from only 1 direct excercise ,as well why do you recommend 12 reps as opposed to doing 4-6 reps?
Thank you
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm
[/quote]
I have read through it ,and can’t find my answer.
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
Nate Dogg wrote:
handthatfeeds wrote:
I find it interesting that both of you only suggested one(preacher curls) bicep exercise. Why is that ,will I develop large biceps from only 1 direct excercise ,as well why do you recommend 12 reps as opposed to doing 4-6 reps?
Thank you
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm
I have read through it ,and can’t find my answer.
[/quote]
What answer do you need?
Get on the program, eat right and train hard and results will come.
See the examples of former, skinny weak bastards in the articles? You could be one of them…a former weak, skinny bastard! Get on the program!
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
What answer do you need?
Get on the program, eat right and train hard and results will come.
See the examples of former, skinny weak bastards in the articles? You could be one of them…a former weak, skinny bastard! Get on the program!
[/quote]
I have understand that part , my question was related to biceps. How can someone achieve large biceps while only doing 1 direct exercise on them per week?
You don’t.
You perform compound lifts and a few direct biceps exercises per week.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
You don’t.
You perform compound lifts and a few direct biceps exercises per week.[/quote]
In your opinion , of the 3 programs posted above you on this page , which one would you recommend?
BTW , the program I posted above is from “Skinny bastard”.
I have been training and coaching powerlifters and bodybuilders for 27 years and in my expereince a program of 3 x a week or training schedule of everyother day is still the most effective off season program for non steroid users. personally your biceps, triceps and shoulder program are too much. your squat repetition is too low to bulk up your thigh unless your using it to add strenght.
remember always almost all programs in magazines is design for supplement users or even steroids. be careful. a program is only effective when it works for you. by the way , whats your goal? are you into competition? how long you been training?
I like and use the WS4SB template along with a few tweaks for my goals.
If you want more direct biceps work, I suggest adding a few exercises at the end of both upper body workouts or as part of an additional “pump” workout on another day of the week. Just keep it short and sweet.
[quote]pens501 wrote:
whats your goal? are you into competition? how long you been training?[/quote]
Goal: Get bigger
Competition: No
Years: 3-4 years.
After all of the indirect work that your biceps will be put through (they will be worked, just not enough to achieve adequate stimulation for growth), you wont need 18 sets of bicep curls. Notice also I put weighted close grip supinated chins on that program. If those are done correctly, you will not want to curl anything for the remainder of the day.
I agree with Nate Dogg, Skinny Bastards is a good way to go as its pretty much all laid out for you, but it still allows you a good bit of room to change things up to fit your needs/goals/schedule/etc.
Carl:
I included pulldowns rather than weighted wide grip chins simply because most beginners (and I am thinking the OP falls into this classification whether he agrees or not) do not have the strength to complete 5 sets of 5 heavy weighted chins. Once he builds up his lat strength with the pulldowns, he can switch to weighted wide-grip chins, but he will have to cross that bridge when he gets there.
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
I find it interesting that both of you only suggested one(preacher curls) bicep exercise. Why is that ,will I develop large biceps from only 1 direct excercise ,as well why do you recommend 12 reps as opposed to doing 4-6 reps?
Thank you [/quote]
I have found that my biceps respond better to slightly higher reps. My triceps need low reps and heavy loads (which has been shown in EMG studies as well) and my biceps respond better with a greater volume at a lighter weight. I suggested preacher curls because they are a true isolation exercise and pretty much eliminate the opportunity to cheat on the movement (as opposed to standing barbell curls, which are one of the most cheat-prone movements ever invented, especially for beginners) and they provide more constant tension on the muscle.
Good point about the calf exercises, Carl. Those were a bit of an afterthought when I wrote up the program.
Fightingtiger , I’m not offended at all by you calling me a beginner. I would rather you be honest than bullshit me.
I really like your routine , it seems influenced by WSB , but seems to be more catered to someone who is not training for sports , so I appreciate you take the time to create that program. I have a few questions for you(and anybody else that could answer these questions).
- How long should I do those exercises before I should change them up?
- When doing my sets , do you recommend that I higher the weight ,keep the same , or lower the weight eat set?
- Should I constantly change my variation of the 5x5 exercises. If so how often?
- I feel more comfortable doing One Arm Dumbbell Preacher Curl , are those just as effective as regular preacher curls?
- On weighted chin ups , what do I use for the weight(my gym does not have any chains).
Thank you.
handthatfeeds… to address ur questions as to why a 3x12 rather than a 4x6
1st u are a beginner and generally will respond to higher rep ranges well. Secondly as im sure u know different rep ranges correspond to more of a focus on strength or hypertrophy with lower ranges corresponding more to strength and higher ranges corresponding more to hypertrophy.
There is also the thought that this range shifts with the “compoundness” of the movement - that is a movement that is highly compound and engages many muscles may elicit hypertrophy in the say the 6-8 rep range while a very isolated movement will better elicit hypertophy in a higher rep range 10-12 reps. See CT articles on how to design a damn good program for a more full explanation
another thing u may want to consider if biceps are ur main focal point is to check out Waterbury’s 100 reps a day protocol im currently using this with relatively good effect on my calves
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
Fightingtiger , I’m not offended at all by you calling me a beginner. I would rather you be honest than bullshit me.
I really like your routine , it seems influenced by WSB , but seems to be more catered to someone who is not training for sports , so I appreciate you take the time to create that program. I have a few questions for you(and anybody else that could answer these questions).
- How long should I do those exercises before I should change them up?
- When doing my sets , do you recommend that I higher the weight ,keep the same , or lower the weight eat set?
- Should I constantly change my variation of the 5x5 exercises. If so how often?
- I feel more comfortable doing One Arm Dumbbell Preacher Curl , are those just as effective as regular preacher curls?
Thank you.[/quote]
- ive heard the body take 3-4 sessions to adapt to specific training parameters and thus i switch my routine up ever 3-4 weeks for instance in the past couple months ive done Waterbury method 4 weeks, 4 day split i designed 4 weeks, and am now doing Dan John’s one lift a day program for three weeks.
This has worked well but if u dont feel like searching for new routines every month u may want to consider doing some sort of simply switch in which u flip flop set and rep numbers (Waterbury does this as his progression alot though it may not fit well with this routine), you may also consider three weeks of this rep range, then go to three weeks of a lower rep heavier weight range, then switch back to three weeks of the original rep range etc… Thib claims to have used this to good effect
- I think this may really end up being a personal preference but I like to raise the weight ( and have seen the best results with this method) in sets especially if im using rest intervals under 2 mins. Thus say i would be doing 5x5 military presses with 70 sec rest intervals. Lets say using 140 i could go 5x5.
But i want to broaden my range of recruitment and also would like a pseudo warm up. So instead i do 130,135,140,145,150. In this way i actually get to put up two sets of greater intensity while maintaining the same volume.
- I haven’t heard anything wrong with 1 arm preacher curls though im feeling like they may also allow u to cheat more than the regular preacher curl. Another alternative if u dont like regular preacher curl is the drag curl do a search for it… its actually my favorite curl, great at bicep isolation, but again u have to be honest with urself and not cheat
[quote]handthatfeeds wrote:
Fightingtiger , I’m not offended at all by you calling me a beginner. I would rather you be honest than bullshit me.
I really like your routine , it seems influenced by WSB , but seems to be more catered to someone who is not training for sports , so I appreciate you take the time to create that program. I have a few questions for you(and anybody else that could answer these questions).
- How long should I do those exercises before I should change them up?
- When doing my sets , do you recommend that I higher the weight ,keep the same , or lower the weight eat set?
- Should I constantly change my variation of the 5x5 exercises. If so how often?
- I feel more comfortable doing One Arm Dumbbell Preacher Curl , are those just as effective as regular preacher curls?
- On weighted chin ups , what do I use for the weight(my gym does not have any chains).
Thank you.[/quote]
The biggest difference between the program I have outlined and Westside (ie the conjugate method) is the lack of speed-specific training for the powerlifts.
- Those are pretty basic lifts. Steadily increasing the weight over time should be enough change in the stimulus to keep your progress going. Do that for 12 weeks and then PM me with your progress and where you have been stalling out and Ill send you something new.
One of the biggest fallacies in weight training is the idea that you have to change your exercises every week or two. The body doesnt know if its a bb press or a db press, all it knows is that it is being forced to adapt.
-
Do not lower the weight from set to set unless you guessed incorrectly and did not make your reps on the first set. If you want to pyramid weights on your 5x5, then that is fine, although I have had success using straight sets.
-
You should not need to change your heavy (5x5) movements very often as you are not working with maximal weights (3-5) reps and should not be experiencing a great deal of burnout. Once again, PM me in 12 weeks with your progress and we will decide where to go from there.
-
The barbell version of preacher curls will allow you to more consistently add weight from week to week.
-
If your gym does not have chains or a dipping belt, you can try holding a db between your ankles. You can pick up a dipping belt for fairly cheap online. If you dont have access to one, I would recommend dropping the $15-25 to get one.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
[quote]pens501 wrote:
I have been training for 27 years and have coach and train athlets both in bodybuilding and powerlifting . I would still consider training program of 3x a week or everyother day regimen as the most effective offseason schedule for non steroid user athlets. [/quote]
This is the point I was trying to make and the same type of protocal I advised. This is the type of training I used exclusively to gain tons of muscle mass and fill out my frame. A lot of people don’t understand that to get bigger you must get STRONGER.
There are so many misinformed individuals. You can’t even help a beginner anymore because they are mislead by so much bullshit.
Advice for beginners: ask guys who started your size and who are much bigger and stronger than you how to train. It’s not common that some people will try to tell you what “split” or “routine” to do while at the same time being not any bigger or stronger than you or at the same level as yourself.
Truely wish you luck. Don’t give up.
I Appreciate everyones help. Few more questions.
For standing Calf raises , does that involve putting a barbell on my traps.
Can you please put how long I should rest for each exercise
-
Horizontal Push/Pull
a1. Incline Bench Press- 5x5
a2. Barbell Row- 5x5
b1. Close Grip Bench Press- 4x8
b2. Dumbell Row- 4x8
c. Preacher Curl- 3x12
-
Quad-Dominant Lower Body
a. Barbell Squat- 5x5
b. Split Squat- 4x8
c. Pull-through- 3x12
d. Standing Calf Raise- 3x15
e. Abs (your choice)
-
Vertical Push/Pull
a1. Push Press- 5x5
a2. Lat Pulldown- 5x5
b1. Seated Dumbell Press- 4x8
b2. Weighted Close Grip Supinated Chins- 4x8
c. Lateral Raise- 3x12
-
Hip-Dominant Lower Body
a. Snatch-Grip Deadlift- 5x5
b. Barbell Step-up- 4x8
c. Hyperextension- 3x12
d. Seated Calf Raise- 4x6
e. Abs (your choice)
Thank you.