Angelot, I’m sorry, I’m way behind on PM’s.
I once extracted a steroid ester from an oil vehicle using DMSO: this worked well.
DMSO is near-impossible to evaporate off, but if the steroid is one that can crystallize readily at room temperature, at least in some cases – propionate would be an example, but as to whether it’s so with for example enanthate I can’t say – crystallization can be achieved by addition of water.
On the dessicant question, I hadn’t thought that the dessicants absorb methanol, though I never tried it.
And going back to the DMSO: very little DMSO is needed. Less than the volume of oil vehicle. In at least some cases, much less: for example with trenbolone acetate the solubility in DMSO is very high and so as a guess even only 1/5th as much DMSO as oil would be sufficient.
One guy who used the recrystalization method bought a dehydrator at Walmart for about $ 20- $ 30 and he says it worked great. he would take the wet coffee filter with syno crytals and put it in the machine and it was dry in no time. He said it make great Beef Jerky also.
Steve
A dehydrator machine (which I don’t know what it is) may be entirely different from what I meant by a dessicator, which is simply a closed container which either is under vacuum or uses a dessicant such as calcium chloride.
While a vacuum would also dry methanol, I wasn’t assuming a vacuum was available and so was thinking of a dessicant powder being used.
But if an actual machine is involved then it may well produce vacuum or a flow of dry air and thus could dry methanol.
The dehydrator idea came from a guy who felt his 4 times recrytalization method was the best way to remove the estrodiol Benzoate from the Synovex. I was complaining about the long time to get the coffee filters with syno powder to dry and had a bad experience of putting the powder in the kitchen oven.
He said he takes the wet coffee filter (with syno powder) and puts it in this machine the powder is dry in no time. These
are the same machines advertised on TV buy the inventor who developed the “pocket fisherman” etc.
So far I am on week three and NO adverse issues with the syno I made with the methanol solubilty method. I feel like the hulk. No tenderness in my nipples and increased libido. The Wife is wondering what is going on.
Hee Hee.
Steve
An excellent outcome!
I tell ya,nothing has ever worked better for me than a simple Test/Tren combo.It’s damn nice of the cattle people to help us out like this.I think in my next life i want to come back as a Kobe steer.
I have results of my new batch. I used one bottle of “heat” 350 ml to dissolve the 20 carts of syno ( 20 grams test P and 2 grams estro B). I first used a Mellita Coffee filter and then a unsterile, new, whatman filter. I then let the solution evaporate. I ended up with 26 grams of crystals. I reweighed on another scale and same outcome. I know the solution was clear after the whatman filter. I figured I would have 22 grams of crystals ( 20 grams test and 2 grams Estro B). Not sure what the additional 4 grams are ? I am in no rush so I will add the crystals to 200 ml of Heat , filter with another whatman filter, and let evaporate and weight again. I will post the results in about a week. Solubility of test P is in a range of 1 grams test P to ( 1-10 ml) of methanol. So 20 grams of test P should hold in about 200 ml of methanol. My goals is to get all the Test Prop (20 grams) out of the syno and as little estrodiol B . If I end up with 15 grams then i wasted 5 grams and used to little methanol and if I got 22 grams then I used to much methanol and got 20 grams test P and 2 grams estro B. I am bewilderd what the additional 4 grams of crystals I got? Like I said the soltuion of methanol had no binders when i let it evaporate (.45 um what man filter NEW).
I am sick of pinning (25 guage needles)and looked at a few options. One is using a product called Phlojell Ultra. You basically use a morter and petistal and crush the crystals and the crystals to the Phloe jel carrier at 10 grams Test to 100 grams phloe jell. You should get a 10 % absorb rate. No needles, BA or BB, sterile vials etc. It is pricy as you are only getting 10 % efficiency. I have a small bottle on order and will let you guys know how it goes. The phloe jel works with hormones that have a small molecular structure. I looked up Trenbolone acatate and it is 288, test base 300, test prop 350. The smaller the number the better and easier to penetrate the skin. The max number is 500 and that means is does not work well.
Another idea I have is to use EO (Ethyl Oleate) instead of the wesson oil. The EO is expensive $ 100 per liter (33 ounces and has a consitency of water (thin). you can use a 31 guage insulin needle to inject and the EO will hold up to 225 ml of test prop without any additives like BB or BA. I plan on adding 5 % BA for sterility.
I still have plenty of test P from my first batch and no gyno and great gains but I have no idea what was the correct amount of methanol that I added to the powder. I had made multiple mistakes (spillage), burnt the crystals in a oven ( too hot 250 degrees F) and I think I used 10 ml heat to 1 gram of test P . I think the “HEAT” is 99 % methanol and 1 % proprietory ingredient according to the manufactures website. Perhaps if I have research grade Methanol results would be different. I also think the Syno is not a high grade type and perhaps the doses vary per Syno carts a(not precise or uniform accurate).
Steve
Ethyl oleate sounds very good. Does anyone know how much tren ace, test suspension, and tren suspension it can hold? Would the tren recipe be the same for EO as it is for other oils, except at 150mg/mL? I also read there’s a simple one step process for removing esters. Tren suspension dissolved in EO injected subq sounds great for preWO.
After reading your thread, I had a thought about the problem of removing the estradiol benzoate. Can’t you use the acidity of the phenolic ring on estradiol to remove it? Dissolve the mixture in methanol, then add aqueous sodium carbonate to make the phenoxide. Depending on the solubility of the phenoxide, you may be able to filter it off here, or it may require a drying of the solution and another solvent to extract it. Please bear in mind I haven’t tried this, I just thought I’d throw it out there.
The obstacle is that unlike with androgen esters, in the case of estradiol benzoate the ester is on the 3-position.
So this phenolic acidity which you correctly point out, would be valid for separating out estradiol, but not estradiol benzoate, so long as the ester remains in place.
I see, I thought it was esterified at the other alcohol. That makes things more difficult.
I also forgot that I did one recrystalization on my prior batch that I am using. I know the stuff i made prior works but i made so many errors that It is hard to duplicate. Hopefully the 10 ml per one gram will let me get the 20 grams of test p with little estrogen. I enjoy the process of making the stuff and the suggestions and mental process like doing a physics equation as much as the end product.
steve
Okay, I don’t know anything about chemistry, and I haven’t read about suspensions, but test suspension is different than oily solutions. Could I dissolve estadoil-b and testosterone in an oil, let the estadoil-b dissolve, then mix water into the oil? Then the testosterone would be dissolved in the water and the estrogen in the oil. Then I could use a centrifuge or seperatory funnel and remove the water. It seems like physical methods of removing the estrogen are in a different class then the chemical methods of changing the mixture in terms of difficulty and precision.
The only thing that I found that was easy and works is to take advantage of the fact that Test P is very soluble in methanol and estrodiol B is not very soluble. You use the least amount of methanol to absorb the test P and most of the estrodiol B will not be able to hold in the solution. You then use a whatman filter to filter out the crystals (estrodiol B) that can’t be held in the solution. It worked the first time I did it and I hop to refine it. The problem was I did so many other things to the syno powder accidently that I need to redo the experiment with only doing the above. I forgot that I had an extra cart (2 grams of tren acatate) lying around that I threw into the first batch of 20 grams of test P. The nice thing is that you can make a lot of test P very cheaply. 20 grams goes a long way and it costs about $85 for the syno and you just need some whatman filters, Meliita brand coffee filters (cheap), funnel, BA, BB, Wesson Oil, sterile vials and some 18 guage needles.
I have about 100 ml of EO on order. I have head some guys have had back reaction to it so I need to keep the cost down initially. I friend of mine use the test Prop and found it would hold up to 225 mg/ ml. He uses a 31 guage needle and takes about 1/2 ml per day to keep his hormone levels constant. I do not know the amount of other hormones that the EO will hold but I think it is higher for Test E etc. There are some crazy home brewers out there making high mg/ml around 400mg/ml .
steve
Testosterone doesn’t dissolve to any significant extent in water.
Maybe about 0.02 mg/mL as a VERY rough guesstimation.
Or if you meant that you hoped that particles of testosterone would go into the water while particles of estradiol benzoate would not, if the steroids are dissolved into the oil then mixing with water will not result in particles transferring into the water.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Testosterone doesn’t dissolve to any significant extent in water.
Maybe about 0.02 mg/mL as a VERY rough guesstimation.
Or if you meant that you hoped that particles of testosterone would go into the water while particles of estradiol benzoate would not, if the steroids are dissolved into the oil then mixing with water will not result in particles transferring into the water.[/quote]
Isn’t testosterone suspension water based? I thought testosterone was water soluble and the ester was there to make it so the test-p has to be metabolized before it can be absorbed into the bloodstream. Since the ester is attached in a different place with estradoil-b, is there a way to cleave only the ester only from test-p?
With the oil water thing, if estradoil-b is oil soluble, and testoterone no ester is water soluble, I would: put the pellets in some sort of acid to cleave the ester from the test-p. Then I’d evaporate the acid, or mix it with a base so that all the acid is neutralized. Then I’d mix it with water. All the testosterone would dissolve in the water.
Then, assuming I got that part right, would the estradoil-b precipitate out of the water as a sediment? I was thinking I could make an oil water mixture and then shake it around a bunch os the oil soaks up the estradoil-b, then the oil could be separated out.
Testosterone suspension is water based – that is to say, it is undissolved particles in water – but this still leaves the above problem I described.
Yes, largely selective ester cleavage is possible, but I would not do it the way you suggest, as acidic ester cleavage is catalytic rather than stoichiometric – in other words, you can’t limit the extent of reaction simply by the amount of reagent that is used.
The final step you suggest of testosterone dissolving into the water won’t work for the reason described above.
I guess if your are happy with pure testosterone, then the simplest thing to do would be to cleave the esters with NaOH, giving you a mixture of estradiol and testosterone base. Separating these off should be easier, either via a recrystallisation or using the phenolic acidity I mentioned before. You could then make your own test suspension, or if you were feeling bold try and re-esterify your test. This would start to get more difficult at this point I think, but as chemistry goes it is quite basic, so who knows?
I would be careful with the NAOH as it could also damage the Test hormone. I have had great success with the solubilty method and now am trying to redo it in a more scientific way. I made syno the Fina way 7 years ago and immediately got gyno within two weeks. I have been on this stuff for about a month or so and great gains and no gyno so I can attest I did something right. I did do one recrystalization with distilled water that time plus the solubilty method. This time I am going to simply do the solubility method and made several vials and if it works then finish the remaining.