Anyway, why would one want to use enough sodium hydroxide to also cleave the testosterone ester?
Keep in mind that in methanol it is not a base-catalyzed hydrolysis of an ester but instead it is a transesterification reaction, which consumes base. So if one knows how much EB is present, then there is no reason to use substantially more than 1.0 equivalent of NaOH or sodium methoxide.
Is silica gel outside of reach of the homebrewer? With the right solvent, it may be possible to simply filter a synovex solution through a pad of silica gel leaving the EB on the silica.
Many years ago I only found one spot on TLC (in other words, TP and EB apparently had rather close Rf values), though I didn’t make any effort to optimize things.
Undoubtedly they could be separated by column chromatography but this is not practical for the “homebrewer.”
I finally finished my first batch of Syno so i had to make my new 20 grams of Syno. I had some issues with my Solubile ranges and decided to error on the side of caution to prevent Gyno. I took the $ 80 of Syno (100 doses)and put it in 250 ml of Heat (methanol). I then filtered it with a Melitta Large Cone coffee filter in a Funnel from a Home improvement store. The solutions was 95 % clear. I filtered the remaining solution with a Non Sterile Whatman filter to get the solution crystal clear (like water).
This was to make sure all the binders were 100 % gone. I then let the solution evaporate. I ended up with 26 grams of crystals (dry). I had another scale and got the same reading (both are cheap digital Wal mart Scales but I got the same exact weight)?. Either both scales are incorrect or I got some binders in the crystals of perhaps there was more Test P and estrodiol B in the pellets than were stated on the package.
I should have gotton 20 grams of test and 2 grams of estrodiol B (assuming I did not remove any of the Estrodiol ). To be on the safe side I added 225 of methanol and filtered with another NEW non sterile whatsman filter. This time I got 20 grams exactly of the powder (dry). I then used one of the “powder calculator” programs to tell you how much powder, BA, BB and Oil to add to get the final Product.
What I found is that this programs is a guide and I had more oil left over even after I measured and filled all the vials to the top. I think I had an extra 20 ml of product or 20 % more product than the calculator said. I had no extra vials so i filtered some of the oil into sterile syringes and took a large dose of the product to "front load " so I would not waste anything.
10 years ago I convered Syno the same way as Fina and got a bad case of gyno after using only 40 ml of product. this time I got some Gyno but I just noticed it ( 3 months later) as it was so gradual. I take about 150 mg a day every other day or 75 mg a day. I am not sure if the gyno is from any remaining estrodiol not removed or it was the Test converting to estrogen. To be safe I am on 10 mg of Nolva and 1/4 a pill of letro. I will increase both if need be to get rid of the small but hard lumps. It is not painful like the first time I got gyno 10 years ago.
This time I plan on taking 200 mg to 300 mg of test every other day or 150 mg per day or 950 mg a week.
I will let you guys know how this batch goes. I decided to skip tren (Fina) this time. I have found the Fina to super powerful for muscle but caused me Anxiety.
steve
I’m sorry to hear about your gyno problem from this procedure.
I strongly suspect you did not use a truly minimal amount of methanol, and thus dissolved more EB into the methanol than necessary.
After the first filtration and drying, I would have tried (as mentioned in another thread) 3 mL per gram, and then would see, after drying – as that material should be nearly entirely TP – how much methanol was needed to dissolve almost all of that. And then use that ratio of methanol for the remainder, and filter again.
If 3 mL per gram would be sufficient, as I suspect it would, then your using 225 mL of methanol was nearly 4 times more methanol than needed, and thus nearly 4 times as much EB was dissolved into it as necessary.
Or if the solubility of TP in methanol is for example 4 mL per gram, then still nearly 3 times as much EB was dissolved as would be necessary.
The gyno I got is a drop in the bucket compared to when I made syno using the FINA kits. I got instant gyno and it was really bad! I am not sure if the slight Gyno is from the Test converting to estrogen or preExisting estrodiol in my powder. I am taking approximately 150 mg Syno every other day and just raised it to 300 mg every other day or 150 mg per day x 7 = 1050 grams of test Prop per week. I do feel really good but not the same stregnth that I had on FINA at say 100 mg every day. BUT NO MENTAL SIDES. I have a positive attitude. Fina gave me anxiety and I was in a bad mood. next time I may use Fina at 20 % to 80% SYNO.
I read the solubility is in the range of 1ml to 10 ml of methanol per gram of Test Propionate (descripion of very soluble). In my first experiment I used 225 ml to dissolve the pellets and filter with a Mellita filter and then a whatman filter to insure I got rid of all the binders. I then let the solution evaporate and wanted to see when most of the crystals came out. I found that the crystals came out of the solution at a consistant rate once I got under 200 ml of methanol. At around 5 ml or so the Crystals were coming out rapidly. I weighed the crystals and got about 26 grams. I was expecting 22 grams at most ( 20 grams test Prop and 2 grams estrodiol Benzoate). ??? Not sure what the other 4 grams were but I had all crystals and they were bone dry.
I decided to add 5 ml of methanol per gram of Test Prop to see if I can get the crystals to melt into the solution and I even warmed up the solution to help. My plan was to refilter with another NEW whatsman filter and let the soltion evaporate and then I would be assured of Test Prop.
My plan did not work. The 5 ml of methanol per gram of Test Prop (I used HEAT methanol) only disolved say 30 to 50 % of the crystals. If I did that then I would have gotton 1/2 of the 20 grams of Test Prop and little if any estrodiol benzoate. I want to get as much of the Test Prop and as little Estrodiol Benzoate. I found that 225ml to 200 ml gets 20 grams of crystals when the solution evaporates.
If I use less methanol i lose product.
I am now on 1/2 of a 2.5 mg Femara pill per day and 20 gram pill of NOLVA Pharm grade to see if I can minimimize the hardness I fell behind my nipples. This combo will stop the prexisting estrogen that I did not fitler out and the testosterone propionate that is converting to estrogen.
I would say the gyno I have is 10 % or less than what I had when i made NO attempt to get rid of the estrodiol Benzoate.
Sincerely,
Steve
I will try to get a better figure for you on the methanol solubility so that any future effort may go better.
Evaporation is an unreliable method as crystals start forming at the surface far before the solution has actually reached being saturated, and cooler temperature (cooling being caused by evaporation, and very strong cooling in the case of methanol) will induce crystallization within the solution earlier than would otherwise be the case.
Btw, it isn’t the case that if you had used only enough methanol to dissolve half the TP that you would have had a lesser proportion of EB dissolved than had you used only just barely enough to dissolve all the TP. The ratio would be the same in either case.
You also have to take into account that the Methanol is the “Heat” type. The product label says it is 99 % methanol and 1 % (private ). The Synovex may not be the Research quality and may have many impurities just like the heat. Perhaps some of the binders get absorbed in the methanol as well. I can’t explain why I got 26 grams of material (crystals) after I was sure I got rid of the binders and I used two scales (not fancy but the same result). you would figure I would get at most 22 grams.
I now agree that I should have used less methanol. I am pretty sure the crystals came out in droves around the 5 ml of methanol per gram of syno. I also wished I had used the Femara all alond as I would then know if the gyno was from prexisting estrodiol in the formula.
I think the theory to my formula has some merit and does reduce the amount of estrodiol but not as much as I had thought. I do feel that I got rid of say 75 % of the estrodiol verses doing the conversion like Fina with no attempt to lesson the estrodiol.
Steve
You have a good point. Household or other-purpose (such as automotive) chemicals can wind up interfering with chemical syntheses or workups in ways that aren’t expected: it just isn’t worth the trouble saved, because when trouble is caused it can be a long time before the problem is pinpointed as being that product.
For example, I saved myself time once (I thought) by using supermarket sodium bicarbonate instead of reagent grade. Only after more time than I’d saved had passed with things going wrong did I discover that Arm and Hammer sodium bicarbonate is very, very impure and was the sole cause of my problems.
I do agree your method has merit. You got rid of far more than 75% of the estradiol benzoate. E2 is an extremely potent substance.
If you had 25% of what was in the original product you’d be a Hooters girl by now 
A good thing would be to take some – even a very small amount – of product produced by using minimal methanol and then see what happens when dissolved into straight vegetable oil at 50 mg/mL, which is the solubility limit of TP in the oil.
If not everything dissolves, then in fact adding the methanol step didn’t reduce the proportion of EB as much as occurs with simply dissolving in vegetable oil, but makes the filtration of the oil vastly easier and therefore is highly worthwhile.
Or if everything dissolves, then most likely (though by chance solubility ratios could be exactly equal but that is relatively unlikely) the methanol step reduced the proportion of EB. And filtration came out better.
So either way, your method is an improvement.
There is nothing wasteful about using “too little” methanol because it is not as if the part retained by the filter must be thrown away.
If after complete drying the remaining weight shows that more grams of material remain than can possibly be accounted for by EB, then it is known that a second pass with more methanol can get some planned portion of the remainder, and from the first pass it will be possible to estimate that amount fairly closely.
I would avoid using added heat at any step of this operation because:
Anyway adding heat is totally unnecessary and can yield variable results. The only ways to be consistent are to either use room temperature; or reflux (operate at boiling temperature, which is inappropriate here); or use a thermostatted system with stirring. There is no reason to bother with the latter for this particular workup.
If being short on patience and wanting to use heat for that reason to enable faster dissolution, the thing to do to get reproducible results is to allow to cool to room temperature and allow sufficient time for excess amount (that beyond the solubility limit at room temperature) to crystallize back out.
That should also be done if using a sonicator to speed dissolution.
I will try ot order some Lab grade Methanol . The price of a 350 ml bottle of heat is under a $ and that is why so many guys use it. It is meant to stop freezing in automobles. I am now affraid of what else is in there besides the states 99 % methanol ???
Like I said …about 10 years ago I uses one of the Fina Kits to make Synovex. Instant Hard painful blumps behind my nipples in a week or two tops about the size of Large marbles. Only after dicontinuing and using Nolva 20 mg a day plus .25 mg of Femara (Both from a Pharmacy) did I get rid of the Gyno and it took a few months.
This time the small amount of gyno snuck up on me as it was more mild and not painful. I was Overconfident in my solubility method. I still should have taken some Femara to eliminate the Testosterone from turning to estrodiol. Then if I got Gyno I would be 100 % sure it was from Preexisting Estrodiol that I did not remove.
steve
Agreed: as you point out, without an aromatase inhibitor there’s no telling whether the gyno effect was principally from aromatization of the TP, or from the supplied EB.
Bill: a few quick questions, please.
Is sterile technique an issue with any of this? I didn’t notice any references to sterilizing any containers, etc., but maybe this was expected to be taken for granted.
Many thanks.
I have been off syno , tren for about two months and taking 1.2 a femara pill and 20 mg of nolva. The hard mass behind each nipple is about 1/2 the size it was while on Syno. I also lost weight that I gained from the Syno/ Tren. I was 200 pounds and now 180 pounds. The lack of excess estrogen makes me thing clearly and without the emotion. I am in a stressful job and things don’t get to as much. I hope to get to about 165 pounds which is the mid body weight for my height. 5’ 9’'.
After that I have some Test Cyp waiting for me. This time I will take the femara with the test cyp to keep the testosterone from becoming estrogen. No more Syno for me. I did enjoy trying to get the estrogen out but I think I failed. Tren is another issue. Easy and I enjoy converting. The problem is this substance has lots of mental sides ( anxiety , depression) and body issues like night sweats and teeth grinding and sleep apnea. I was taking 100 mg a day and if you can take 20 mg a day you still get gains (not as good) but less sides.
steve