I looked up the solubilty of diethel ether and it is the same as methanol.
testosterone p is Freely soluble and the estrodiol B is slightly soluble.
Bill Roberts please check out this final version of my recipe. I feel really good.
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take 22 grams of syno ( 20 grams test p and 2 grams estrodiol B) and then add 200 ml of methanol and let dissolve.
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filter with the melita coffee filter and throw out the binders. The methanol solution will still have some binders but not much. ( 90 % to 95 % clear).
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i need to get rid of remaining binders so i will do a recrystilzation by adding distilled water to the methanol. The amount of water is not important and more is better . I want to get all the crystals of test P/ estrodiol B out. I will get rid of the estrodiol B later.
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let the powder COMPLETELY DRY. Do NOT use a OVEN!. I did this and some of my white powder melted !! AHHHHHHH
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Now weight the completely dry powder. You should have lost about 10 % so you should have
18 grams of test P and 1.8 grams of estrodiol B for a total of 19.8 grams.
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We know that test p is soluable in methanol at 1 gram for a range of (1 ml to 10 ml of methanol). I wish i had the exact # but I don’t. I do know that Trenbolone Acetate is soluble at 1 gram for 3 ml of methanol (FDA WEBSITE).
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so we take the middle range (guess) and shoot for the 1 gram of test p soluble in 5 ml of methanol.
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The 100 ml of methanol is the limit right now. You slowly add the methanol to the powder and observe the powder absorbing in the methanol. You want to stop adding the methanol when the powder is not being absorbed. Less methanol is better. Write down how much methanol you added.
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now you know the approximate amount of methanol that is needed for future batches.FILTER with a sterile WHATMAN FILTER (have several on hand in case of clogging)
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let the Filtered methanol evaporate (no oven as it is explosive like gasoline).
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weight the white powder remaining. You already got out 99 % of the binders.
So if you have 19.8 grams left then you used to much methanol and have the same amount of Syno powder as when you started. You will have to add less methanol to this powder to filter out the estrodiol.
If you have 18 grams of powder then you filtered out all the estrodiol B and recovered just test prop. This is the ideal outcome!!
If you have 15 grams of powder then you recovered 15 grams of test prop and filtered out 4.8 grams of the Test Prop/estrodiol benzoate mixture. You used to little methanol. On your next batch you have to use more methanol to recover more test P. The good news is you have 15 grams of estrodiol benzoate free powder.
OK Bill let me know what you think.I am open to constructive criticism.
Steve
I made a error. No matter what I do there will be some estrodiol benzoate in the final powder. Here are some comments from some chemists on this method.
i got my idea from the below conversation between a few chemists and a chemisty student (MR ROSE). It appears the there is a range for the test prop solubility. It can range from one 1 gram per 1.3 ml of methanol (super soluble) to 1 gram of test Prop to 10 ml of methanol ( freely soluble).
“20g of testosterone and 2g estrogen. If as you say testosterone has a solubility of 750g/L in EtOH, 20g should dissolve in 20(g)/750(g/L)= 0.02666L or 26.66mL EtOH. If estrogen only has a solubility of 2.5mg/L, only 0.0665mg will dissolve which is negligible”
“[EDIT] Just read your other source gives a solubility of 10mg/mL for testosterone. In that case, you’d need 2L of EtOH, but that would still only dissolve 5mg of estrogen which is still going to give you 99.975% pure. What you could do is add 100mL, filter and weigh the solid. If its greater than 2g, put it back in solution and add more EtOH accordingly until you only have 2g of solid filtered material.”
I would try using just 3 mL of methanol per gram of estimated TP from the first recrystallization. The solubility of TP in methanol is unlikely to be substantially less than that of TA.
If you come up short on final recovery you could go back and do a second run on what was left over from this point.
So, if the powder weighs your example value of 19.8 grams and we use your estimate, which I think is reasonable, on the proportions of TP and EB, I’d use 54 mL of methanol.
You don’t want to keep adding methanol until all powder is dissolved, because that will be needlessly dissolving more EB when having already long past since dissolved all the TP.
Filter. If need be let settle so as to have a clear solution and pour off, with refiltering.
You will not have removed all the EB. It will still be present in the same ratio to TP as the ratio of their solubilities in methanol, or slightly worse if you used more methanol than needed. E.g., if only 2 mL were needed per gram, then you’d have 50% more methanol than what could have been achieved.
Thanks for your comments. Here is the link where I got the Solubilty of Trenbolone Acetate in methanol. It is on page 4.
take care,
steve
Yes, that was a good find! 
In the case of trenbolone acetate, ultimately I decided that using solvents other than the final oil is not of value, at least not if you’re happy with 50 mg/mL. The reason is that the oil doesn’t dissolve the binder, whereas probably any organic solvent – certainly everything tried – that dissolves the TA to a relatively high concentration also dissolves the binder.
And then it winds up getting into the vegetable oil in the end, when it would not have gotten there in the first place.
Perhaps it cocrystallizes with the TA – in other words, a molecule here and a molecule there embedded into the TA – and thus is able to dissolve into the vegetable oil in that state.
However you have a different problem with the Synovex, and I think you have a good method that is better than what I posted, and less difficult (despite the extra steps) assuming the filtration goes well. Which it could with the right equipment, but can tend to be problematic with gravity filtration and coffee filters. However I’d guess you should be fine with your above plan.
Filtering the binders with the Melitta brand # 6 large coffee filters is easy. Simply add the pellets to methanol and let sit for a day or so and shake every so often. Then strain with the Melitta large coffee filter in a large funnel.
The solution now is pretty clear but there are “faint swirls” meaning there are some binders left in the methanol solution. I would guess I got 95 % of the binders out.
I was going to simply let the methanol evaporate and live with very small amount of binders. I am not sure long it would take for the 200- 300 ml of methanol to evaporate and leave dry powder ?
I am also not sure if this small amount of binders would clog the Whatman Filter much more than the 2 grams of estradiol benzoate crystals that I attempting to filter out? The binders also screw up my calculations of how much hormone I filtered out and what i have.
I am not a fan of the Distilled Water Recrystaliation as I lost 4 grams out of 22 grams due to spillage. I lost nearly 20 %. If I were more careful I could have reduced the loss to 10 %.
It also took a long time for the coffee filters to drain and to finally dry out to get the dry powder. This was the worst part.
However, the nice thing about the Water recrystalization is that you eliminate almost all the binders and have clear solution when you add the powder to the methanol again (no more faint swirls). Any powder remaining after you filter with a Whatman is hormone powder. You took the binders out of the equation.
The best part of this method is you can refine it so you get as much test p and the least Estrodiol B as possible.
take care,
Steve
I have made Fina from kits for 5 years now. You are 100 % correct about the use of to much solvents causing problems. The makers of these kits are trying to make the process simple, quick and stop possible infections. This is why they OVER use the BA/BB. When using kits I would get a hard Lump that stung and turned red from the injection and it was not an infection or a sterile abcess. It was my body reacting to the hugh amount of BA. Major caughting and burning occured in my lungs. I found that if i used less of the BA and BB in the oil that i could still have a sterile product and less sides. Most Fina kits are designed for 75 mg/ml in the recipe so 50 mg/ml is not a huge reduction in potency. Just use good judgement in the amount of BA/ bb.
I like the method of letting the pellets disolve in the cottonseed oil and bb/ba. I put a glass marble in to help dissolve the pellets by shaking from time to time. If I let the solution settler for a few weeks there would be a clear fluid on top and sludge in the bottom. I would use a 18 guage needle and draw from the top the clear fluid and transport it to a clean glass jar. I would throw out the sludge ( I am sure there was some Tren it it but it was not worth getting). I still would recommend using 2 % BA in addition to the Whatmen filtering.
I also baked my gear for a year and then stopped. No infections.
take care,
Steve
When conducting my syno experiment this was my method:
- Crush pellets
- Add filtered grapeseed oil
- Let dissolve for 2 weeks, using heat(pre-boiling water) to help
- Filter through whatman
- Add 10% BB
I understand this may not be optimal for removing the EB, my question is it acceptable?
I used the same method for fina, is that acceptable?
I would like to use bottletop filtration to eliminate the hassle of syringe-filters, do you have any bottletop recommendations?
For FINA it would add BA at 2 % for sterility. I have seen some formulas like your such as
Rotex medica Germany where they make a (Testosterone Enanthate + 324 mg Benzyl Benzoate + 440mg Castor Oil/ml). It appears they use no BA ? I think the BB is used to thin out the Oil.
I hate to admit this but several years ago I tried to make Syno with no effort at removing the estrodiol benzoate and within two weeks I had hard lumps the size of small marbles under each nipple that hurt. I immediately stopped taking the gear and it took 3 months of taking NOLVA plus LETROZOLE to get rid of the lumps. i was lucky. Don’t do what I did.
Always have Nolva in hand before doing any Syno experiment.
Steve
[quote]hammerinadam wrote:
When conducting my syno experiment this was my method:
- Crush pellets
- Add filtered grapeseed oil
- Let dissolve for 2 weeks, using heat(pre-boiling water) to help
- Filter through whatman
- Add 10% BB
I understand this may not be optimal for removing the EB, my question is it acceptable?
I used the same method for fina, is that acceptable?
I would like to use bottletop filtration to eliminate the hassle of syringe-filters, do you have any bottletop recommendations?[/quote]
That is similar to the method I used of simply dissolving Implus-H (which is like Synovex) pellets into straight vegetable oil.
I made the error of misremembering the solubility I’d previously found for TP in vegetable oil and therefore used twice as much oil as I should have, and therefore twice as much EB dissolved as was necessary.
I used it at some moderate dose, I don’t remember what, and had no problems as a supplementary dosage in a trenbolone-based cycle.
For a person without unusual estrogen sensitivity, for moderate dosing to support a TA cycle this is completely acceptable I think, with a safety factor of approximately 2, as the EB can be cut to half of what I had simply by using half as much vegetable oil.
I haven’t used bottletop filtration and unfortunately have no recommendations on it.
The one concern I’d have with your description above is that simply sitting, without any stirring or shaking, does not guarantee ever fully dissolving. What can happen is that the lower layer can become saturated, preventing further dissolution, and if this lower layer is denser than the oil itself, it may well just stay at the bottom and the top oil never reaches saturation, or in some cases – not that I have measured this with oils, but I have seen it in aqueous solutions – not even close.
Bill’s comments on the sedament may apply to me. I started taking Tren Ace about 5 years ago and took a dose of 50 mg every other day. I had all the gains and the sides including night sweats etc. I think I switched kits and didn’t notice that I now needed 100 mg every day. The pellets were the same and the amount of oil was the same. I think the tren was crashing and the oil would not hold the amount of tren that was in the 50 ml container. I didn’t see the crystals forming at the bottom of the vial as they were in the sludge from the binders. I think the new kit supplier didn’t have the right BB etc or EO to hold the recipe. I thought that I had built up a tollerance to Tren Acatate so I took a larger dose to make up for the weaker gains and sides.So instead of taking 1 ml i would inject 1.5 ml. The nice thing about making your own gear is you can play with mg/ml and you know what and how much additives you are putting into the solution. The makers of the kits would come and go and so would the service. It is far better to buy the glassware and chemicals yourself and you save $ and know what exactly is in the “magic solution”.
take care,
steve
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The one concern I’d have with your description above is that simply sitting, without any stirring or shaking, does not guarantee ever fully dissolving. What can happen is that the lower layer can become saturated, preventing further dissolution, and if this lower layer is denser than the oil itself, it may well just stay at the bottom and the top oil never reaches saturation, or in some cases – not that I have measured this with oils, but I have seen it in aqueous solutions – not even close.
[/quote]
You are correct about the lower layer. On a daily basis the sediment layer would become stuck at the bottom, shaking vigorously would have no effect on this sediment layer. The only solution was to heat it up and shake, which would continue the dissolving process. Even after two weeks there was still a small sediment layer, I imagine the oil above was not fully saturated.
3 weeks in at 500mg per week I have noticed no ill side effects from the EB, perhaps I am not overly sensitive to estrogen however I would like to brew more effectively.
Bill Roberts is correct once again on the solubility of Testosterone Propionate in Veg Oil (no BA).
the link shows that 49.8 mg/ml will hold with out the use of BA. It is on Page 2 of 2.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac60059a050
EDIT by Steve12345
The above link doesn’t work on this forum? I was on a secure network from work and they subscribe to the site. Please take my word on this. The scientist basically made several vials of Test Prop and at different concentrations. The just of the article is that Test prop will hold at the upper limit of 50 mg/ml with NO additional chemicals. When they added BA (not sure how much BA) they could go up to a maximum of 99 mg/ml.
So Bill’s idea of making Test P with 50 mg/ml and filtering with a Whatman into a sterile Vial will hold all the Test P and you will fitler out some of the Estrodiol Benzoate.
I also found the solubilty of estrodiol Benzoate at 2.5mg per litre in methanol on another site but lost the link. I previous had found the slightly soluble of 1 gram per range of 100 to 1000 ml.
So if my Math is correct the 2.5 mg per litre is the same as 1 gram per 400 ml ?
Take care,
steve
I’m sorry, somehow I missed seeing the final question until now.
2.5 grams per liter is the same as 1 gram per 400 mL. While you wrote mg, I’m pretty sure you meant grams, so you are correct.
Here is the list from the publication on Veg Oil solubilty. I got it from one of those “abstacts” publications that give you a tease and then want $ for the whole artical. Lucky for me when I log on with my work computer it give me the whole artical to read as my company has a subscription. When i tried to copy paste it would not let me so I took the basic info and posted it here and not the 5 pages that went along with it that only a rocket Scientist could interpret.
Solution mg/ml vehicle found mg/ml
A 50 peanut oil 49.8
B 10 Sesame seed 9.99
c 100 sesame seed plus 98.8
( BA added )
There are more but I don’t have the time to copy. The just is that you can use up to 50 mg/ml and it will hold in veg oil without BA.
Steve
Update. Two weeks have passed since being on syno at 100 mg every other day with NO gyno. No Nolva or Femara were taken.
I feel that I need about twice that dose to get decent results so will increase the dosage to 100 mg Every day= 700 mg test prop per week. The very day pinning makes me feel like a VOO DOO DOLL. i have enough Syno gear for 3 months. After that I will be on Test E made by a Human Grade Company. It cost more but the Syno conversion is time consuming and I hate the every day pinning. I also have a family and there is a privacy issure.
I really like the group effort of all the guys who made constructive comments (Bill Roberts).
If I get any gyno etc I will tell you and I have plenty of Nolva and Femara (human grade) on hand. After 3 months I will take a break and start the human grade test E.
Sincerely,
Steve
Best wishes on the cycle, Steve!
I want to add a few things… I also had 2 packs of Fina laying around so I added this to the final brew at a ratio was 20 grams of test prop to 4 grams of Tren ace. In the past I used to make my tren with a Kit that contained lots of BA/BB but this time I simply dissolved the Tren pellets in the methanol and filtered the binders (melita Coffee filter 95% binders gone) and then filtered again with a non sterile Whatman filter to get clear Methanol / Tren Ace solution. I then let the methanol evaporate and took the remaining crystals and added to Wesson Veg oil and added 5 % BA and 5 % BB at 100 mg/ml. I then filtered with a new sterile Whatman into a sterile Vial and Baked the gear at 230 degrees F for 30 minutes. The gear has no pain and no Tren cough. I can really feel the test prop and Tren Ace kicking in so I know I did not damage the hormones with the heat. The dose of 100 mg per day is perfect. So it is really 75 mg test P and 25 mg Tren Ace plus some leftover Estrogen Benzoate ???
The solubilty of the Test P in the methanol was used at 10 ml methanol to 1 mg of Test P/ Tren Ace. This way I got 95 % of the crystals to be absorbed the methanol solution. I know the solubilty was rated anywhere from 1.5 mg to 1 ml of methanol to 10 mg/ml of methanol from various sources. I feel that due to impurities the amount of methanol I needed was on the high end to get most of the test p and tren ace crystals to be held in the methanol and not hold the estrodiol b crystals .
The reason i baked the gear was that I and several other guys got severe test Flu from separate makers of underground gear. We users came to the conclusion the reason we all got the Flu symptoms was due to contamination. This is why I still bake my home brew grear and I have never had any type of issue (flu or infection) with home brew). The two underground places said the ingredients were Cottonseed oil and a little BA plus the hormone and no EO was used (new solvent to make high mg/ml ratio ) So i am assuming sterility was the issue but can’t prove it. I took the underground gear from 4 separate vials at different times ( two months later) and from two different makers and got test Flu each time and no EO was used. My only conclusion is the sterility of the gear but I have no proof.
I feel the home brew is sort of like making your own beer or wine at home. It is a lot of work to make it but the satisfaction is there (no fakes, Counterfit, sterile, real deal).
sincerely,
steve
steve
hello guys.this is my first post so please be kind.I have a syno conversion question.I am leery about using methanol to dissolve the pellets.I was thinking of using a BA/BB solution.Will this work or is Methanol the only solvent that can be used,and why?
thanx
AT