Some Synovex Experimentation

Pharma
41

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
This will have a ratio of estradiol benzoate to testosterone propionate equal to the ratio of their solubilities in methanol, which probably is not too different from their ratio in oil."

Methanol Solubility of Testosterone Propionate 1 gram to range of (1 ml to 10 ml)
estrodiol benzoate 1 gram to range of (100ml to 1000ml)
Trenbolone Acetate 1 gram to 3 ml

Veg Oil Solubility of testosterone Propionate 1 gram to range of (10ml to 30 ml)
Estrodiol Benzoate 1 gram to range of (30 to 100 ml)

You can see from the above data that there is a bigger difference is solubility by useing Methanol verse Veg Oil. You have less estrodiol and can make your injectable with a higher mg/ml than with the veg oil. I just did the coffee filter filtering with a MELITTA Brand coffee filter # 6 type and the methanol solution is clear so there should be no problems with clogged filters like the Veg Oil proceedure. I have to point out that methanol can be dangerous if you do not COMPLETELY wash the Final Crystals with Distilled water to insure that you get all the methanol out. Small doses of methanol can cause blindness and death. The Veg oil method is a safer method in that reguard.

“Compared to dissolving straight into oil, there is probably no benefit to this extra step. Either way, this proportion of EB will be there.”

The benefit is more Test P to less Estrdiol B and the advantage to using a higher amount of Test P in the oil ( mg/ml)

"However, if planning to use substantial amounts of benzyl benzoate and/or benzyl alcohol, your intermediate step with the methanol crystallization may well offer an advantage, because the ratio of EB solubility to TP solubility would be expected to be much higher for BB and BA than for methanol or vegetable oil.[/quote]

I plan on adding BA and BB to the oil, Test P in a clean vial and then filtering with a whatsman filter into a sterile vial. If i got most of the estrodiol B out there is no need to add the BA later. I still may use the Bill Roberts method on another batch if I get any gyno. I will be on 1.125 mg of Human Grade letrozole (Femara) per day to stop any of the Test P from converting to Estrogen. If I still get gyno I will know that I most likely did not get all the estrodiol Benzoate out of the Syno. then i will immediately use 20 mg a day Tamax ( Nolva). I have 45 days worth of both IN HAND.

Proceedure:

  1. add 10 carts of Syno to a bottle of methanol 300 ml ( 20 grams Test P and 2 grams estrodiol B and binders.

  2. let dissolve ( 2 days ) and then filter with Melitta Brand coffee filter to get rid of binders.

  3. Add COLD distilled water to solution to get crystals of Both Test P and Estrodiol B emerge out of solution.

  4. Let dry completely

  5. add just enough methanol to make the Crystals get held in the methanol soluion without crashing.

If I have 20 grams left of powder and the solubility of test p is 1 gram to range of (1 ml to 10 ml) then the maximum amount of Methanol that I need is 20g x 10ml = 200ml max but most likely the amount needed is 20g x 5ml = 100 ml to dissolve in. Trenbolone Acatate needs only 3 ml for each gram to fully hold in methanol. I only have a range for Test P and estrodiol B.

  1. Assuming I have 2 grams of estrogen left and the solubility of estrodiol B in methanol is 1 gram for a range of (100 ml to 1000 ml). Then I need 2 grams x 100ml = 200 ml to fully absord the 2 grams of estrodiol B in the methanol but most likely the # is around 2 grams for 500 ml . I only have ranges so this makes it more difficult. If i had exact #s of solubility then I could give more accutate results. If anyone has these exact properties for the solvency of Test propionate and estrodiol Bezoate in methanol i would appreciate it.

My guess is there will be at worst case 50 % of the estrodiol remaining but most likely 90 % should be gone.

7 ) then filter with a Whatsman and the estrodiol remaining should filter out of the methanol solution and only the Test P should remain in the methanol solution.

8 ) add BA, BB (if you want), Oil and the Test P powder and filter again with another Whatsman to make the injectable.

  1. I plan on making a 100 mg/ml of test Prop. If I still get gyno I may make the batch with Veg oil( only) and filter like in Bill Roberts proceedure several posts above.

Please review and post any constructive comments,

steve

42

I am now considering letting my clear methanol solution with both Test P and estrodiol B just EVAPORATE rather than add distilled water. My goal is to lose less of the powder. I now believe the way to reduce the estrodiol B is to use the Least amount of Methanol to hold the 20 grams of Test P. In this case 20 grams of test P should just hold at a 1 in 6 ratio so 20 grams x 6 ml = 120 ml total required methanol. (not 100 % sure on this). If anyone has better info please chime in. I know the ratio can be anywhere from 1 ml to 10 ml per gram of test P in methanol.

Then filter through a Whatsman and the estrodiol will filter out. The remaining solution can once again be left to evaporate out and I should just have test prop crystals left in the glass container. I then will wash the non soluble Test Prop crystals in a coffee filter with distilled water to remove any methanol or other toxic chemicals from the test Prop crystals.

Then i will make the Test prop the same way as if I had purchased the raw powder.

i appreciate any comments on my idea of just letting the methanol powder evaporate instead of using distilled water. I had already got id of the binders with the coffee filter and have clear solution of both test P and estrodial B. I just want the methanol removed. i will remove the estrodiol by the filtering later on.

Appreciate and comments (constructive),

Steve

43

Good reading on a similar thread to this one but the particitpants appeart to be chemists like Bill Roberts.

44

[quote]steve12345 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
This will have a ratio of estradiol benzoate to testosterone propionate equal to the ratio of their solubilities in methanol, which probably is not too different from their ratio in oil."

Methanol Solubility of Testosterone Propionate 1 gram to range of (1 ml to 10 ml)
estrodiol benzoate 1 gram to range of (100ml to 1000ml)
Trenbolone Acetate 1 gram to 3 ml

Veg Oil Solubility of testosterone Propionate 1 gram to range of (10ml to 30 ml)
Estrodiol Benzoate 1 gram to range of (30 to 100 ml)

You can see from the above data that there is a bigger difference is solubility by useing Methanol verse Veg Oil. [/quote]

The problem is in assuming one can take these terms and apply them literally. Sadly, even when solubilities are reported with actual units, e.g. mg/mL, the source has to be considered and even then there needs to be some doubt if there is only one claim, because unfortunately this is an area where there is a lot of bad data.

Some of it comes from experimenters using a sonicator so as to save time: this can produce grossly falsely high values. Others even use heat.

The correct method is to stir for at least two days at controlled room temperature, filter, and analyze the filtrate.

Many do not do that.

I am virtually certain (more than 99%) that the value for estradiol benzoate in vegetable oil does NOT fall in the above range. I did not measure it by the above correct method – I haven’t measured it at all – but it has much worse solubility than TP.

The solubility of TP in vegetable oil is 50 mg/mL, fairly closely.

The solubility of EB in vegetable oil is NOT the 10-33 mg/mL that you are concluding from your above table.

I understand why you’re concluding it, but the problem is that this sort of data, despite being published, is very sloppy and unreliable. Personally the most I take these categorizations (“slightly soluble,” etc) as being worth is as probably being within one category of the correct one, unless the report is coming from multiple sources, all agreed.

Ah, well that DOES make the methanol step well worth doing. The filtering problem was a real pain with the vegetable oil method.

Not really: trace amounts of methanol are harmless. It is one of those toxins that becomes poisonous in quantity but in fact is naturally occurring in very small quantities.

Briefly skimming through your report, this looks like good stuff. Thank you for posting it! It is nearly 2 AM now though for me and so actually I will finish reading it tomorrow, with regard to any details that there might be.

45

If you use a Coffee filter do not use the MR COffee type as 50 % of the fillers/binders passed. I found the MELITTA BRAND # 6 Filters inside a large plastic funnel ( home depot or lowes ) is the best. Almost clear solution of Syno but not perfectly clear.

Here is where i got my descriptions of the Solubility of Testosterone Propionate and Estrodiol Benzoate and even Trenbolone Acatate.

For Trenbolone Acetate go to page 4 of the link below. It says “1 gram per 3 ml of Methanol”. I trust the FDA’s values.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/EnvironmentalAssessments/UCM072285.pdf

The following link says that “Testosterone is Freely Solubile in Methanol”. Read page two of the PDF.
Freely soluble means 1 gram per range of ( 1 ml to 10 ml of methanol). I wish they would give specific #s.

http://www.39hg.com/jp14e/14data/Part-I/Testosterone_Propionate_Inj.pdf

The following links shows the solubility of Estrodiol Benzoate as being “slightly soluble in methanol” on page one of the PDF.

http://lib.njutcm.edu.cn/yaodian/ep/EP5.0/16_monographs/monographs_d-k/Estradiol%20benzoate.pdf

Here is a link to a chemist person who like Bill Roberts is finding out there is is confliction data on solubility of these hormone.

Here is a link where some Chemists are tying to help this same individual separate the test P from Estrodiol B . It does’t say SYNO but it is interesting that the Test P is 20 grams and the Estrodiol B is 2 grams so i can safely say it is SYNO.

Sincerely,

steve

46

Bill Roberts says:

"I am virtually certain (more than 99%) that the value for estradiol benzoate in vegetable oil does NOT fall in the above range. I did not measure it by the above correct method – I haven’t measured it at all – but it has much worse solubility than TP.

The solubility of TP in vegetable oil is 50 mg/mL, fairly closely.

The solubility of EB in vegetable oil is NOT the 10-33 mg/mL that you are concluding from your above table."

Steve Says:

I think I made a math error on the Veg oil solubility #s.

Veg Oil for Test P is called “Soluble” ( 1 gram per range of 10 ml to 30 ml) so the average is 20 ml.

  So your 50 mg/ml concetration of Test P in Veg Oil fits fits in the middle area!

Veg Oil for Estrodiol Benzoate is called “sparingly soluble” ( 1 gram per range of 30 ml to 100 ml of methanol)

The average is 65ml. The is about 16 mg/ml estrodiol benzoate per ml of Veg oil and not the 10 to 30 mg/ml that I posted earlier.

However, there is a range and I do not have the exact # so I am picking the middle of it.

sincerely,

Steve

47

Well, if you want to ignore my advice and experience both with estradiol benzoate and with regard to solubilities in general with respect to such above categorization and actual realities, and assume that the value falls within that range, that is your prerogative, of course.

However, to reiterate, no experienced chemist would assume as you are doing that values will necessarily, in actuality, fall in those ranges simply because there is a published description saying so. It’s quite frequently not the case, and it’s extremely unlikely (extremely) that it is accurate here.

But if you want to keep posting those values and calculations based off of them, okay. I’m only intending to explain why I’m not going to keep going back and forth on it, and why I don’t agree it’s correct, though to you I understand it may seem you have proof positive. I am only intending to make clear why to me the above isn’t at all proof positive, or indeed any kind of proof.

The fact that the filtering was easier with your method does make it a superior approach in any case.

48

To make a little clearer perhaps:

My graduate research and published papers were in development of prodrugs for transdermal delivery, as well as developing a predictive model for transdermal flux based on physicochemical parameters including solubilities in water and lipid.

So this work was very dependent on solubilities, and aside from my own time with it, my professor had a vast amount of experience with it.

It was a substantial problem that literature values even when reported in mg/mL or other units were rather often quite wrong. For most other things in the chemical literature, measurements are usually correct, but solubility unfortunately is frequently unreliable. Reasons include those given above.

Now when one goes further into simply the solubility ranges, experience will teach that unless appearing in multiple sources, one shouldn’t assume any greater accuracy than figuring the compound to probably fall within one range of what is actually given – in other words, it’s unlikely to be two or more ranges higher or lower. (And higher is much less likely than lower.) But it’s an assumption that will often be wrong to assume it will actually be in the range. Unless you do the same as what the experimenter did, such as sonicate or use heat, but these are not true values if you do and will not apply if you don’t. Further, even if you sonicate or use heat, values tend to have poor replication by these methods.

Anyhow, there it is on the subject of reported solubility “ranges.”

49

Thanks for your help and I did not mean to offend you. I am a Field Engineer and am not used to wide ranges of #s’. It is funny how these reputable sites post different amounts. In my business a inch is a inch and the tollerance is very tight.

I think that if you see multiple reputable places posting the same information you can make reasonable assumtions such as the Solubility of the hormones in Veg oil. You can assume that Test P will be many more times more solvent than the estrodiol B but without the scientific instruments to measure this you are making a logical guess.

I decided that since i already filtered the binders out of the SYNO that I will evaporate the methanol leaving the Test P and estrodiol B crystals. Then i will add enough methanol to hold the Test P in the methanol solution based on the “Freely Soluble” description of 1 gram to ( 1 ml to 10 ml). I know approximately how much to methanol to add and will look for any crystals comming out of the solution or “Crashing”.

Then filter with a whatsman to filter out the estrodiol B and once again allow the methanol to evaporate again (or recrystalize with distilled water ). I am not sure if it is worth recrystalizing with distilled water or simply to allow the methanol solution to evaporate?

I will follow your advice to weight the powder and make Veg Oil Test P at 50 mg/ml and hope I have reduced the estrogen to a low enough amount to not cause gyno. I have 75 tabs of 20 mg Pharm Grade Nolva in hand.
I appreciate all your help.

steve

50

You didn’t offend me at all, whatsoever. I can readily appreciate that it’s natural to go from a black-and-white figure found in a good source and go from there.

One does have to distinguish multiple reports from multiple sources doing the experiment, and multiple sources repeating what they found elsewhere, that they did not do themselves. The latter doesn’t add further weight.

Oh, there’s no question that TP is many times more soluble in anything than EB is. It’s just that I have basis to view EB’s solubility in vegetable oil as being far less than reported from the range.

Since you have no binders after your evaporation, the total weight can only be EB and TP. Thus if you use only enough methanol that your remaining powder actually retains a little more weight than would have been lost if you had dissolved all of the TP, this assures that you have a saturated solution and therefore also dissolved no more EB than necessary. In the future you can use the same proportions.

On whether to add water: Where this can be useful is if, where compounds present are both or all saturated, the desired compound has a worse ratio of methanol/water solubility than the undesired ones. If so, then it will preferentially crystallize.

If the other way around, then nothing is being accomplished, or there is actually a slight degree of worsening of the impurity, due to crystallizing most of the desired compound but an even higher percentage of the undesired one.

In this case, I’m unable to predict. If it were only for adding the extra carbons, then the situation would be the unfavorable one of estradiol benzoate being even more adversely affected by the added waster, but rather than simply being added carbons, it’s an added phenyl ring, and the estradiol itself has an aromatic ring, which are properties aiding water solubility. I can’t presently say whether the aromatic rings act to aid water solubility more than they do methanol solubility or not. It undoubtedly could be figured as to what is most likely the case, but experimentation would be the best answer.

51

I did the distilled Cold water recrystalization and filtered with the melitta coffee filters and i had to do it several times to get the maximum powder out of the solution. I fear I wasted 1/2 of the original 20 grams of powder ? I have used 8 coffee filters to filter the powder. Once each filter clogged with powder they would barely drip and I had to use a new filter. No big deal. I think I paid $ 5 for 10 - 14 filters. Now I have to let all the filters completely dry and see how much power I have remaining. I am confident that I lost a lot of the powder as the water/methanol solution was still white but no clumps of white powder like before filtering. I could not filter any more powder out of the solution. Maybe the Coffee filters are not fine enougth to catch all the crystals? I will know for certain in few days when the filters are completely dry and I can weight the dry powder.

In the future I will use the methanol with the Syno pellets to disssolve them and then filter the binders out with the coffee filters and then allow the CLEAR methanol soltion to COMPLETELY EVAPORATE so that I have only powder remaining containing the Test P and estrogen B. (no water recrystalization added etc).

Then I will add the least amount of methanol ( approx 1 to 10 ml per gram of test powder) to completely hold the powders in the solution. Then filter with the Whatsman and allow the methanol solution that made it past the whatsman to evaporate and hopefully I have only test P crystals. (Much less powder loss this way). Then add the test powder to the Veg oil at a concentraion of 50 mg/ml and filter with a NEW Whatsman filter into a sterile Vial. Then add BA 3 % directly to the sterile vial or with another Brand New whatsman filter. Then i will try the gear and I have the Nolva in hand 75 pills Pharm grade of 20 mg in case of gyno. I won;t take the Nolva unless I feel the sensitivity behind my nipples.

Sincerely,

Steve

52

Well, filtration without vacuum to assist can readily be a problem. One really doesn’t want a situation where a given undesired material needs repeated filtrations. That shouldn’t be the case, though with the coffee filters it may be unavoidable.

On adding the least amount of methanol, filtering, and drying the filtrate, it’s unrealistic to expect no estradiol benzoate. Instead you have a saturated solution of estradiol benzoate, and all of that will be present in the dried powder as well.

The amount will, I would expect, be acceptable at least for low dose use (such as supplementing a trenbolone cycle) and if not overly sensitive to estrogen. But it will not be a zero estrogen mixture. As a very rough qualitative estimate, I would think something on the order of 1% is likely. However, estradiol is so potent that even this, or anything similar to it, will be a significant percentage if taking a large amount of the resulting product.

I hope this project works well for you!

53

I agree that by combining the Syno with the Fina they work great together. I have converted Finaplex from pellets for years. If you take a dose of 1/3 tren to 2/3 test Prop (Syno) you get the best of both worlds and the small amount of estrogen may be tollerated. I recommend having Pharm Grade Nolva on hand for the Syno (if you need it).

When I converted Fina in the past I made it similar to your Veg Oil method but used a kit where you would first add the “magic solution” ( BA and BB) to the pellets first to dissolve and then add the cottonseed oil and then let the solution settle in a tall glass Tube. After a week or two the solution will have all the gunk at the bottom and clear solution on top. You draw up the clear solution with a 18 guage needle and put the clear solution in clean beaker. You then gently heat the clear solution to help filter thru a Whatsman filter into a sterile vial. You throw out the vial containing the gunk or fillers as it is impossible to filter the sludge. I imagine you lose some Tren in the sludge. This is much easier than the recrystalization of the tren powder. I think that I will use less BA than in the kits as i got a cough from Tren when i injected it and I think it is due to the high BA and or BB content. I think you can disolve the pellets with less BA/BB and use heat and a MARBLE in the Tall CLEAR VIAL. The marble is a sort of “mixer”. This is the same principle that is used in Spray paint. They have a small metal ball inside the paint can that assists you mixing the paint by shacking the Spray Can.

take care,

Steve

54

The disadvantages of BA, and perhaps to a lesser extent BB, with making injectables from Finaplix are the possibly-higher incidence of tren cough with higher cosolvent concentration (an unproven point but it seems to be so, though certainly many willingly tolerate the usually-moderate chance that is experienced with the BA and BB) and secondly that filters tend to clog when this is used.

There is a sticky component in Finaplix pellets which will dissolve in these substances, or in vegetable oil that has these as cosolvents, which has great affinity for the submicron filters and rapidly clogs them.

This can be avoided by not using these cosolvents, though this limits concentration to 50 mg/mL.

A jewelry sonicator can rapidly dissolve the pellets in the oil without bothering with crushing, application of heat, or hand effort at shaking. These are not very expensive.

A submicron filter lasts practically forever when filtering the clear solution that can be poured off after the fillers have settled.

55

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The disadvantages of BA, and perhaps to a lesser extent BB, with making injectables from Finaplix are the possibly-higher incidence of tren cough with higher cosolvent concentration (an unproven point but it seems to be so, though certainly many willingly tolerate the usually-moderate chance that is experienced with the BA and BB) and secondly that filters tend to clog when this is used.

[quote]steve12345 wrote:
There is a warning I saw on a label of an injectable from a large pharm maker that mentioned a FATAL COUGH in infants and young children due to the BA added in the injectable for sterility. I am confident this is the same issue we see with home made Tren. The kit I used to make Tren had far to much BA. I am confident that by reducing the BA content to a value about 3 % that we can lower the occurance of Tren cough.

[ Bill roberts wrote]
A jewelry sonicator can rapidly dissolve the pellets in the oil without bothering with crushing, application of heat, or hand effort at shaking. These are not very expensive.

[steve12345 wrote]
I have one of these jewelry sonicators and will try it on the next batch. The method I used of adding methanol to the syno pellets and waiting two days (with shaking the solution from time to time) worked pretty good. I feel I removed approx 90% + of the binders(almost clear). The jewelery sonicator will speed things up and save two days of prep time. The Mr Coffee filters didn’t work well. The Melitta brand large cone filters worked best for me.

[steve12345 wrote]
I did some more math calculations on the amount of estrodiol benzoate we need to remove.

Woman who are on hormone replacement therapy take 1 mg a day of estrodiol.

If I took syno with no attempt to reduce the estrogen at 100 mg/ml I would be taking 10 times the amount that woman take (10 mg a day).

If I reduce the syno dosage to 50 % per day or 50 mg/ml I cut that amount in half or 5 mg. If I add some Tren then I do not lose any strength gains. Tren is about 3 times more anablolic so I actually gain more strength !

If I use the Bill Roberts method by adding the Syno powder directly to the Veg oil and filter (without BA) I can cut the estrogen # to 1/3 so the 5 mg is now 1.65 mg a day. I computed this as the Veg Oil will hold 50 mg of TEST P per ml (no BA) and the estrodiol will hold at about 15 mg/ml. Veg oil solubilty rates tetosterone Prop as being “soluble” and estrodiol benzoate as being “sparingly soluble”.

I still do not want to wear a Bra so by “adding the least amount of methanol to the syno powder and filtering with a whatsman filter to get rid of more of the remaining estrogen.”

So I am once again using the solubiltiy ranges and come up with a 90 % loss even when I used the range tables AGAINST me. So if the Freely Soluble description says I need 1 gram of Test P for a range of 1 ml to 10 ml I will pick the choice that is 10 ml.(against me)

So if the Slightly Soluble descrition says I need 1 gram of Estrogiol B (1 gram for a range of 100ml to 1000 ml). Then i will pick the worst case # of 100 ml working against me.

If you use these two # then there is a 10 to 100 ratio so I lose 90 % of the remaining estrodiol benzoate.

If I lose 90 % of 1.65 mg then I have .165 mg remaining of estrodiol B per day which I believe is tolerable plus I have pharm grade Nolva in hand.

I feel that by using these two method combined we can reduce the amount of estrogen to tollerable levels.

It would be nice not to get ripped off by scam sites or get unclean or underdosed gear, seizures or controlled deliveries etc. I really like the the fact I am making the gear myself. It is like when you go fishing and eat the fish you catch. Somehow the fish tastes better.

Steve

56

The in-principle best ways of doing it are, in no particular order,

A) The supersaturated hexane selective recrystallization method. Problem: requires a rotavap.

B) The method of selectively cleaving the benzoate ester in methanol solution, then recrystallizing.

The problem here from my perspective (and this is just a personal problem) is that this is the sort of thing where one has to actually do the thing successfully to have exact details worked out. General advice is useless. I tried it once more than 10 years ago and failed miserably, and never tried again. So far as various reports go that have appeared from time to time, some were obviously severely flawed, and most didn’t employ any actual testing of results.

I’d suggest though the following thoughts for anyone wanting to work with that:

  1. Dissolve into a truly minimal amount of methanol, just enough to fully dissolve or nearly fully dissolve the TP. I believe there was a thread here earlier where someone did try to determine how much TP could dissolve into methanol. Also I can probably determine a value reasonably shortly.

  2. If the solubility of EB in methanol is known as well, and the volume of solution is known, then the amount of EB will be known.

  3. One could add 1.1 equivalents of sodium hydroxide, or better, sodium methoxide, and the reaction would be guaranteed to not go substantially past completion. Nor, with patience, to fall short of completion.

  4. Then crystallize the TP with addition of water.

If being highly aggressive in trying to recover a very high percentage of the TP, then estradiol will crystallize out as well.

However, the ratio of E2 to TP solubility in vegetable oil will be much, much lower than that of EB to TP in vegetable oil. The ratio should be extremely favorable. Thus, most of the remaining E2 would not dissolve into the oil, and would be filtered out.

Again, however, presence of BB and/or BA would adversely affect this ratio.

57

From reading your post I am wondering if the recrystalization method would work if you knew the exact amount of distilled water to add to the Syno powder mix (no binders). You stated that the Testosterone P will come out of the solution first and recrystalize.

Then you said if you are to aggressive then estrodiol will also. I am assuming you mean that if you keep on adding distilled water to the solution( methanol and syno powder with no binders) that after a point the estrodiol will recrystalize also ?

If this is true you could add a exact amount of distilled water and then disguard the methanol estrodiol solution ? Maybe you have to do this several times? Just an idea. I have seen this posted on other sites.

I just recrystalized myself and am waiting for the SYNO powder to dry.I used a LOT of distilled water to get the powder out of the methanol solution so I must have simply got the same ratio of Test P to Estrodiol B that I had when i started.

I plan on adding the least amount of methanol to the powder and using a Whatsman filter to filter the solution with the idea that the “Freely soluble” Test p will pass the filter and the “slightly soluable estrodiol B” will not. This is a play on your Veg Oil solubilty theory. I may try my recipe first or combine it with your veg oil method (easy simple) adn report back.

Steve

58

I am hoping Bill can chime in on this other method i read about.

It involves adding the syno pellets to Diethal Ether and putting the solution into a freezer or allowing it to evaporate and either the estrodiol comes out first or last. I can’t recall.

I did a little hunting and found out that Test p is Freely soluable in Diethal either and Estrodiol B is not very soluable.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

59

If one simply dissolves, as much as possible, of the powder into a minimal amount of an organic solvent, e.g. methanol, then the result is a solution saturated with both TP and EB.

In this situation, both will start recrystallizing at about the same time on addition of water, and in roughly similar proportions. E.g., roughly speaking, if you add enough water to crystallize most of the TP, it will result in crystallization of a great deal of the EB as well and quite possibly most of it.

If one uses excess solvent then the result is a solution that is less than fully saturated with TP, but may well still be fully saturated with EB, as there is a gross excess – relative to solubility ratio – of it present in the original powder. The only way the EB will be less than saturated will be if a gross excess of solvent was used and all the steroid component was dissolved, including all of the EB. In this case, in terms of relative proportion the EB is much closer to saturation than the TP.

Where one achieves a different result is by having the solution that is saturated with both TP and EB, but converting the EB to estradiol.

As estradiol is more soluble in methanol than EB, it will not be fully saturated and thus will not crystallize as soon as the TP will.

Furthermore, it would be the sodium salt of estradiol that would be present,which has better water solubility.

As a correction to the above post, I wouldn’t use 1.1 equivalent. I would use slightly less than 1.0. The excess, even of 0.1 equivalent, could create overly harsh conditions.

60

The ether method works based on solubility ratio as does the vegetable oil method.

The solubility ratio is likely similar.

The advantage would be in easier filtering.