[quote]newbie2bb wrote:
…to all the haters out there. steriods do about 10 percent of the work.
[/quote]
Lets not post bullshit.
First off steroids (its nice to know how to spell a word you plan on talking about) do NONE of the work.
But when used right they are responsible for way more than 10% of the results of hard work + proper diet + steroids.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
[quote]musclegym wrote:
Again if your going to use than whatever. That’s fine it is your choice but when you post on a site that has tons of muscleheads that know what “it” looks like then just shut up about the natural crap.I don’t care what anyone says if I were using I would freakin be 230lbs …you don’t have to confess just don’t say anything at all.
Move on you look super great if you"re using I hope it helps you collect all the wood and plastic and some metal trophies your heart desires. Someday you may look back and say what if I didn’t and what could I have done on my own. Maybe I have been at it too long. Just my opinion. I’ll shut up now. [/quote]
Everybody is entitled to do whatever the fuck they want with their own lives and body to achieve fulfillement, without be scrutinized by dimwitted people like you. Whether hes using or not, hes entitled to do and say what he wants. Just hive him some fucking credit where credits due and stop bringing this shit up.Whether hes got good genetics or not? Whether hes using or not? Just credit him with the fact that he eats really well, goes balls-to-the-wall in the gym, has actually achieved a fuckload in such a short amount of time AND is putting a whole-hearted effort into this by finding what works for him and what doesnt. If everyone did less bitching and more listening to the big guys this site would be ten times better, less crowded and all the useful information would be even more accessible. Not that it isnt anyway.
pwrbarboy. good work. gave you a ten. cos… ur a beast.
[/quote]
LOL at defending a guys right to say anything by telling people to shut up.
The guy posted on a forum for feedback. Why is it we can discuss his eating, training, and sleep cycle, but not drugs? You and others have even pointed out drugs are a large part of bbing. Why are they off limits?
If a pro claimed to eat 500 calories a day to gain, it would be fair to call BS. If Ronnie freaking Coleman claimed his only supplements were BSN and that he was natural, it would be equally fair to call BS. Why can we criticize diet or training claims and not drugs?
I honestly don’t know who is worse, the guys that assume people who are larger than them juice, or the people on this board who shout and scream every time drugs are mentioned.[/quote]
Because some people wouldnt want to self incriminate by talking about certain things. How hard is that to understand?
Why do people (especially naturals) care so much about the drugs someone is or isnt using. It doesn’t affect them at all. [/quote]
Personally, I care for the same reason I read about training regimens that I will never use. This site is supposed to cut through the bullshit around the industry. I like to learn everything I can about lifting, nutrition, supplements, and yes drugs. Why the hell would you want to know how powerboy trains and how he eats, but not what drugs he does or does not take?
You and your peers are suppressing the information. That pisses me off.
If they don’t matter, why would people spend thousands of dollars and risk imprisonment? It has to be worth the risk and that’s a huge fucking risk. You with your constant claims that steroids don’t do any of the work are every bit as wrong as the guys that write off achievements because of use. They fucking work, end of story.
Do you honestly believe that natural guys are more biased on the issue than users? Get real. You’re every bit as biased.
It’s a shame that trolls and idiots are allowed to force important BBing information under the rug.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
[quote]musclegym wrote:
Again if your going to use than whatever. That’s fine it is your choice but when you post on a site that has tons of muscleheads that know what “it” looks like then just shut up about the natural crap.I don’t care what anyone says if I were using I would freakin be 230lbs …you don’t have to confess just don’t say anything at all.
Move on you look super great if you"re using I hope it helps you collect all the wood and plastic and some metal trophies your heart desires. Someday you may look back and say what if I didn’t and what could I have done on my own. Maybe I have been at it too long. Just my opinion. I’ll shut up now. [/quote]
Everybody is entitled to do whatever the fuck they want with their own lives and body to achieve fulfillement, without be scrutinized by dimwitted people like you. Whether hes using or not, hes entitled to do and say what he wants. Just hive him some fucking credit where credits due and stop bringing this shit up.Whether hes got good genetics or not? Whether hes using or not? Just credit him with the fact that he eats really well, goes balls-to-the-wall in the gym, has actually achieved a fuckload in such a short amount of time AND is putting a whole-hearted effort into this by finding what works for him and what doesnt. If everyone did less bitching and more listening to the big guys this site would be ten times better, less crowded and all the useful information would be even more accessible. Not that it isnt anyway.
pwrbarboy. good work. gave you a ten. cos… ur a beast.
[/quote]
LOL at defending a guys right to say anything by telling people to shut up.
The guy posted on a forum for feedback. Why is it we can discuss his eating, training, and sleep cycle, but not drugs? You and others have even pointed out drugs are a large part of bbing. Why are they off limits?
If a pro claimed to eat 500 calories a day to gain, it would be fair to call BS. If Ronnie freaking Coleman claimed his only supplements were BSN and that he was natural, it would be equally fair to call BS. Why can we criticize diet or training claims and not drugs?
I honestly don’t know who is worse, the guys that assume people who are larger than them juice, or the people on this board who shout and scream every time drugs are mentioned.[/quote]
Because some people wouldnt want to self incriminate by talking about certain things. How hard is that to understand?
Why do people (especially naturals) care so much about the drugs someone is or isnt using. It doesn’t affect them at all. [/quote]
Personally, I care for the same reason I read about training regimens that I will never use. This site is supposed to cut through the bullshit around the industry. I like to learn everything I can about lifting, nutrition, supplements, and yes drugs. Why the hell would you want to know how powerboy trains and how he eats, but not what drugs he does or does not take?
You and your peers are suppressing the information. That pisses me off.
If they don’t matter, why would people spend thousands of dollars and risk imprisonment? It has to be worth the risk and that’s a huge fucking risk. You with your constant claims that steroids don’t do any of the work are every bit as wrong as the guys that write off achievements because of use. They fucking work, end of story.
Do you honestly believe that natural guys are more biased on the issue than users? Get real. You’re every bit as biased.
It’s a shame that trolls and idiots are allowed to force important BBing information under the rug.[/quote]
Good point. Again for the new guys wouldn’t it help if you cut through the crap and realize that just eating a lot, taking some supps and working out hard is going to make you the next Ronnie? I remember cutting the workouts out of a muscle mag and following the guy’s I liked and aspired to be like and thinking this is all I have to do. Stupid? Probably. Has it changed much? No. With all the info available it’s still pretty pathetic. Sorry this got so far off task.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
[quote]musclegym wrote:
Again if your going to use than whatever. That’s fine it is your choice but when you post on a site that has tons of muscleheads that know what “it” looks like then just shut up about the natural crap.I don’t care what anyone says if I were using I would freakin be 230lbs …you don’t have to confess just don’t say anything at all.
Move on you look super great if you"re using I hope it helps you collect all the wood and plastic and some metal trophies your heart desires. Someday you may look back and say what if I didn’t and what could I have done on my own. Maybe I have been at it too long. Just my opinion. I’ll shut up now. [/quote]
Everybody is entitled to do whatever the fuck they want with their own lives and body to achieve fulfillement, without be scrutinized by dimwitted people like you. Whether hes using or not, hes entitled to do and say what he wants. Just hive him some fucking credit where credits due and stop bringing this shit up.Whether hes got good genetics or not? Whether hes using or not? Just credit him with the fact that he eats really well, goes balls-to-the-wall in the gym, has actually achieved a fuckload in such a short amount of time AND is putting a whole-hearted effort into this by finding what works for him and what doesnt. If everyone did less bitching and more listening to the big guys this site would be ten times better, less crowded and all the useful information would be even more accessible. Not that it isnt anyway.
pwrbarboy. good work. gave you a ten. cos… ur a beast.
[/quote]
LOL at defending a guys right to say anything by telling people to shut up.
The guy posted on a forum for feedback. Why is it we can discuss his eating, training, and sleep cycle, but not drugs? You and others have even pointed out drugs are a large part of bbing. Why are they off limits?
If a pro claimed to eat 500 calories a day to gain, it would be fair to call BS. If Ronnie freaking Coleman claimed his only supplements were BSN and that he was natural, it would be equally fair to call BS. Why can we criticize diet or training claims and not drugs?
I honestly don’t know who is worse, the guys that assume people who are larger than them juice, or the people on this board who shout and scream every time drugs are mentioned.[/quote]
Because some people wouldnt want to self incriminate by talking about certain things. How hard is that to understand?
Why do people (especially naturals) care so much about the drugs someone is or isnt using. It doesn’t affect them at all. [/quote]
Personally, I care for the same reason I read about training regimens that I will never use. This site is supposed to cut through the bullshit around the industry. I like to learn everything I can about lifting, nutrition, supplements, and yes drugs. Why the hell would you want to know how powerboy trains and how he eats, but not what drugs he does or does not take?
You and your peers are suppressing the information. That pisses me off.
If they don’t matter, why would people spend thousands of dollars and risk imprisonment? It has to be worth the risk and that’s a huge fucking risk. You with your constant claims that steroids don’t do any of the work are every bit as wrong as the guys that write off achievements because of use. They fucking work, end of story.
Do you honestly believe that natural guys are more biased on the issue than users? Get real. You’re every bit as biased.
It’s a shame that trolls and idiots are allowed to force important BBing information under the rug.[/quote]
What are you slow?
Look at my post right before yours. Read it.
Where did I say that steroids dont do anything? That’s a joke. Did you purposely make that up just to make a counter argument and have guys like the one above me rally behind you? Nither of you read.
What does your post have to do with my point that people dont talk opening about it because THIS STUFF IS ILLEGAL. Pissing in the face of the DEA is not the best way to stay safe in this game.
If you want to know about this stuff so much just PM the guy. Or talk to bodybuilders at your gym.
OR go to the boards with actual bodybuilders posting that actually cover bodybuilding events that actually write articles about steroids every month in their publications. T-Nation is not a site that has anything to do with competitive bodybuilding.
I find it comical that you think you are entitled to any and all information. People pay other people for their “drug secrets”
I never said anything about naturals being biased. I questioned why they care what assisted guy are doing. Their paths dont cross in competition so who cares what people do?
Dont say that you are being prevented from learning because one person, who chooses to have his face visible to the public, wont talk about drugs. That’s dumb. There’s plenty of information out there to be had on this topic.
[quote]musclegym wrote:
Good point. Again for the new guys wouldn’t it help if you cut through the crap and realize that just eating a lot, taking some supps and working out hard is going to make you the next Ronnie? I remember cutting the workouts out of a muscle mag and following the guy’s I liked and aspired to be like and thinking this is all I have to do. Stupid? Probably. Has it changed much? No. With all the info available it’s still pretty pathetic. Sorry this got so far off task.[/quote]
This level of naivety should end after someone has been training seriously for a year or two. Anybody making good progress should realize that workouts in Flex mag are written by ghostwriters. The workouts in magazines are published over and over again and are some of the most poorly conceived routines ever.
These guys make a living working out. Sort of like their personal ‘trade secrets’. What sense would it make for them to put their routines out there? I can’t see any benefit for them to do that.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]musclegym wrote:
Good point. Again for the new guys wouldn’t it help if you cut through the crap and realize that just eating a lot, taking some supps and working out hard is going to make you the next Ronnie? I remember cutting the workouts out of a muscle mag and following the guy’s I liked and aspired to be like and thinking this is all I have to do. Stupid? Probably. Has it changed much? No. With all the info available it’s still pretty pathetic. Sorry this got so far off task.[/quote]
This level of naivety should end after someone has been training seriously for a year or two. Anybody making good progress should realize that workouts in Flex mag are written by ghostwriters. The workouts in magazines are published over and over again and are some of the most poorly conceived routines ever.
These guys make a living working out. Sort of like their personal ‘trade secrets’. What sense would it make for them to put their routines out there? I can’t see any benefit for them to do that. [/quote]
That is all I am refering to, newbies.You are right if you have a brain and you care about what you are doing you find the way.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
[quote]musclegym wrote:
Again if your going to use than whatever. That’s fine it is your choice but when you post on a site that has tons of muscleheads that know what “it” looks like then just shut up about the natural crap.I don’t care what anyone says if I were using I would freakin be 230lbs …you don’t have to confess just don’t say anything at all.
Move on you look super great if you"re using I hope it helps you collect all the wood and plastic and some metal trophies your heart desires. Someday you may look back and say what if I didn’t and what could I have done on my own. Maybe I have been at it too long. Just my opinion. I’ll shut up now. [/quote]
Everybody is entitled to do whatever the fuck they want with their own lives and body to achieve fulfillement, without be scrutinized by dimwitted people like you. Whether hes using or not, hes entitled to do and say what he wants. Just hive him some fucking credit where credits due and stop bringing this shit up.Whether hes got good genetics or not? Whether hes using or not? Just credit him with the fact that he eats really well, goes balls-to-the-wall in the gym, has actually achieved a fuckload in such a short amount of time AND is putting a whole-hearted effort into this by finding what works for him and what doesnt. If everyone did less bitching and more listening to the big guys this site would be ten times better, less crowded and all the useful information would be even more accessible. Not that it isnt anyway.
pwrbarboy. good work. gave you a ten. cos… ur a beast.
[/quote]
LOL at defending a guys right to say anything by telling people to shut up.
The guy posted on a forum for feedback. Why is it we can discuss his eating, training, and sleep cycle, but not drugs? You and others have even pointed out drugs are a large part of bbing. Why are they off limits?
If a pro claimed to eat 500 calories a day to gain, it would be fair to call BS. If Ronnie freaking Coleman claimed his only supplements were BSN and that he was natural, it would be equally fair to call BS. Why can we criticize diet or training claims and not drugs?
I honestly don’t know who is worse, the guys that assume people who are larger than them juice, or the people on this board who shout and scream every time drugs are mentioned.[/quote]
Because some people wouldnt want to self incriminate by talking about certain things. How hard is that to understand?
Why do people (especially naturals) care so much about the drugs someone is or isnt using. It doesn’t affect them at all. [/quote]
Personally, I care for the same reason I read about training regimens that I will never use. This site is supposed to cut through the bullshit around the industry. I like to learn everything I can about lifting, nutrition, supplements, and yes drugs. Why the hell would you want to know how powerboy trains and how he eats, but not what drugs he does or does not take?
You and your peers are suppressing the information. That pisses me off.
If they don’t matter, why would people spend thousands of dollars and risk imprisonment? It has to be worth the risk and that’s a huge fucking risk. You with your constant claims that steroids don’t do any of the work are every bit as wrong as the guys that write off achievements because of use. They fucking work, end of story.
Do you honestly believe that natural guys are more biased on the issue than users? Get real. You’re every bit as biased.
It’s a shame that trolls and idiots are allowed to force important BBing information under the rug.[/quote]
What are you slow?
Look at my post right before yours. Read it.
Where did I say that steroids dont do anything? That’s a joke. Did you purposely make that up just to make a counter argument and have guys like the one above me rally behind you? Nither of you read.
[/quote]
Steroids don’t do any of the work?
If that is pwbr’s stance that is fine. No one can force him to talk about anything AND no one has tried to. It can, however be discussed by anyone who wants to.
I do. The same way I talk about training an nutrition. But that doesn’t mean I can’t also learn here.
It is supposed to. Certainly the RMP of a competitive BBer ties in with it somehow.
Yes I obviously think I’m entitled for thinking guys should be able to discuss completely relevant subjects on a weight lifting site. If you started trying to badger guys away from discussing training I’d call you an idiot then too. The only one acting entitled is you, believing you have the right to end discussions on relevant subjects.
Well, gee. I think most people here consider steroids. Everyone here makes a decision about them. Why should someone who chooses not to use them be any less educated on the subject?
But on the flip side, I love to read articles about the training regimen of football players and hockey players, though I’ve never played. Is it really that odd?
[quote]
Dont say that you are being prevented from learning because one person, who chooses to have his face visible to the public, wont talk about drugs. That’s dumb. There’s plenty of information out there to be had on this topic. [/quote]
Wrong. You aren’t preventing him from discussing it. You are attempting to prevent others from discussing it. And we should certainly be free to ask the question.
There is plenty of information on all weightlifting subjects at your local gym, so why are you here?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
[quote]musclegym wrote:
Again if your going to use than whatever. That’s fine it is your choice but when you post on a site that has tons of muscleheads that know what “it” looks like then just shut up about the natural crap.I don’t care what anyone says if I were using I would freakin be 230lbs …you don’t have to confess just don’t say anything at all.
Move on you look super great if you"re using I hope it helps you collect all the wood and plastic and some metal trophies your heart desires. Someday you may look back and say what if I didn’t and what could I have done on my own. Maybe I have been at it too long. Just my opinion. I’ll shut up now. [/quote]
Everybody is entitled to do whatever the fuck they want with their own lives and body to achieve fulfillement, without be scrutinized by dimwitted people like you. Whether hes using or not, hes entitled to do and say what he wants. Just hive him some fucking credit where credits due and stop bringing this shit up.Whether hes got good genetics or not? Whether hes using or not? Just credit him with the fact that he eats really well, goes balls-to-the-wall in the gym, has actually achieved a fuckload in such a short amount of time AND is putting a whole-hearted effort into this by finding what works for him and what doesnt. If everyone did less bitching and more listening to the big guys this site would be ten times better, less crowded and all the useful information would be even more accessible. Not that it isnt anyway.
pwrbarboy. good work. gave you a ten. cos… ur a beast.
[/quote]
LOL at defending a guys right to say anything by telling people to shut up.
The guy posted on a forum for feedback. Why is it we can discuss his eating, training, and sleep cycle, but not drugs? You and others have even pointed out drugs are a large part of bbing. Why are they off limits?
If a pro claimed to eat 500 calories a day to gain, it would be fair to call BS. If Ronnie freaking Coleman claimed his only supplements were BSN and that he was natural, it would be equally fair to call BS. Why can we criticize diet or training claims and not drugs?
I honestly don’t know who is worse, the guys that assume people who are larger than them juice, or the people on this board who shout and scream every time drugs are mentioned.[/quote]
Because some people wouldnt want to self incriminate by talking about certain things. How hard is that to understand?
Why do people (especially naturals) care so much about the drugs someone is or isnt using. It doesn’t affect them at all. [/quote]
Personally, I care for the same reason I read about training regimens that I will never use. This site is supposed to cut through the bullshit around the industry. I like to learn everything I can about lifting, nutrition, supplements, and yes drugs. Why the hell would you want to know how powerboy trains and how he eats, but not what drugs he does or does not take?
You and your peers are suppressing the information. That pisses me off.
If they don’t matter, why would people spend thousands of dollars and risk imprisonment? It has to be worth the risk and that’s a huge fucking risk. You with your constant claims that steroids don’t do any of the work are every bit as wrong as the guys that write off achievements because of use. They fucking work, end of story.
Do you honestly believe that natural guys are more biased on the issue than users? Get real. You’re every bit as biased.
It’s a shame that trolls and idiots are allowed to force important BBing information under the rug.[/quote]
What are you slow?
Look at my post right before yours. Read it.
Where did I say that steroids dont do anything? That’s a joke. Did you purposely make that up just to make a counter argument and have guys like the one above me rally behind you? Nither of you read.
[/quote]
Steroids don’t do any of the work?
If that is pwbr’s stance that is fine. No one can force him to talk about anything AND no one has tried to. It can, however be discussed by anyone who wants to.
I do. The same way I talk about training an nutrition. But that doesn’t mean I can’t also learn here.
It is supposed to. Certainly the RMP of a competitive BBer ties in with it somehow.
Yes I obviously think I’m entitled for thinking guys should be able to discuss completely relevant subjects on a weight lifting site. If you started trying to badger guys away from discussing training I’d call you an idiot then too. The only one acting entitled is you, believing you have the right to end discussions on relevant subjects.
Well, gee. I think most people here consider steroids. Everyone here makes a decision about them. Why should someone who chooses not to use them be any less educated on the subject?
But on the flip side, I love to read articles about the training regimen of football players and hockey players, though I’ve never played. Is it really that odd?
[quote]
Dont say that you are being prevented from learning because one person, who chooses to have his face visible to the public, wont talk about drugs. That’s dumb. There’s plenty of information out there to be had on this topic. [/quote]
Wrong. You aren’t preventing him from discussing it. You are attempting to prevent others from discussing it. And we should certainly be free to ask the question.
There is plenty of information on all weightlifting subjects at your local gym, so why are you here?[/quote]
There is a fucking STEROIDS FORUM. With people talking about this stuff ALL DAY. Why are you harping on this subject in this thread?? He clearly is not saying anything one way or the other on the subject. Are you saying you want everyone to have an open discussion of PED’s in this particular thread? Have you gone onto Prisoner’s RMP and ask him? Or what about all the other guys with great physiques, I wont mention names because I have no idea if they use or not.
And since you cant seem to comprehend what I’m saying. When I say “steroids dont do any of the work” that means that steroids are not moving the weights. I was commenting on a techinicality in the other person’s post. The PERSON is doing the work, steroids are amplifying the results. Do you get it yet? In that same post where I said that steroids dont literally do the work I also said that steroids are responsible for a lot more than 10% of the results. Did you conveniently overlook that?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
There is a fucking STEROIDS FORUM. With people talking about this stuff ALL DAY. Why are you harping on this subject in this thread?? He clearly is not saying anything one way or the other on the subject. Are you saying you want everyone to have an open discussion of PED’s in this particular thread? Have you gone onto Prisoner’s RMP and ask him? Or what about all the other guys with great physiques, I wont mention names because I have no idea if they use or not.
And since you cant seem to comprehend what I’m saying. When I say “steroids dont do any of the work” that means that steroids are not moving the weights. I was commenting on a techinicality in the other person’s post. The PERSON is doing the work, steroids are amplifying the results. Do you get it yet? In that same post where I said that steroids dont literally do the work I also said that steroids are responsible for a lot more than 10% of the results. Did you conveniently overlook that?
[/quote]
There is also a training forum, why harp on training here? Same with diet.
Iâ??m not saying everyone needs to discuss anything. Iâ??m saying they should be free to. Huge difference.
And yes, if I wanna ask you can be damn sure I will.
Let me put the â??workâ?? statement into my perspective. Letâ??s say you set a goal of 200 pounds lean body mass, and you work to get to that goal. Juicing you can get there after 2 years hard work. Without juicing it takes 4 years hard work. Steroids just eliminated half the work to get to that goal. No, they didnâ??t “do the work” for 2 years but the difference is nothing more than semantics.
Assuming hard work of the individual, they do a lot of work. You assuming that a smaller guy just hasnâ??t put forth the effort is no different that the smaller guy assuming he just hasnâ??t taken the drugs. No one can know what if, but thatâ??s why it makes all the more sense to have the concrete discussions of what a guy is actually doing.
Why are you here if all the information is out there? You didn’t answer last time.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
There is a fucking STEROIDS FORUM. With people talking about this stuff ALL DAY. Why are you harping on this subject in this thread?? He clearly is not saying anything one way or the other on the subject. Are you saying you want everyone to have an open discussion of PED’s in this particular thread? Have you gone onto Prisoner’s RMP and ask him? Or what about all the other guys with great physiques, I wont mention names because I have no idea if they use or not.
And since you cant seem to comprehend what I’m saying. When I say “steroids dont do any of the work” that means that steroids are not moving the weights. I was commenting on a techinicality in the other person’s post. The PERSON is doing the work, steroids are amplifying the results. Do you get it yet? In that same post where I said that steroids dont literally do the work I also said that steroids are responsible for a lot more than 10% of the results. Did you conveniently overlook that?
[/quote]
There is also a training forum, why harp on training here? Same with diet.
Iâ??m not saying everyone needs to discuss anything. Iâ??m saying they should be free to. Huge difference.
And yes, if I wanna ask you can be damn sure I will.
Let me put the â??workâ?? statement into my perspective. Letâ??s say you set a goal of 200 pounds lean body mass, and you work to get to that goal. Juicing you can get there after 2 years hard work. Without juicing it takes 4 years hard work. Steroids just eliminated half the work to get to that goal. No, they didnâ??t “do the work” for 2 years but the difference is nothing more than semantics.
Assuming hard work of the individual, they do a lot of work. You assuming that a smaller guy just hasnâ??t put forth the effort is no different that the smaller guy assuming he just hasnâ??t taken the drugs. No one can know what if, but thatâ??s why it makes all the more sense to have the concrete discussions of what a guy is actually doing.
Why are you here if all the information is out there? You didn’t answer last time.
[/quote]
What do you mean ‘why am I here’?
And I was only talking about the semantics of “work”. You can pretend to know what youre talking about WRT steroid use. But its never as black and white as you make it sound. Some people lose their gains just as fast as they make them on AAS. Some people respond better to identical doses of AAS compared to others. Some people dont make any gains at all because their livers fail and their heart hypertrophies. If you want to take ONE example of a person reaching his goal in half the time then fine, do that. But I already said that steroids will amplify the RESULTS. We know this. Steroids didnt ‘do half the work’. They just make the work twice as rewarding. That is the most literal explanation of what happens with proper steroid use.
Yes, they can be viewed a shortcut, no arguemtn there. But the hormones are not doing the work. Why do you keep ignoring the fact that no one is saying that AAS can lead to drastic improvements?
You are insulting every single person that has ever used AAS properly. And I think you are doing it intentionally.
And I asked why you are harping on AAS use because the OP has clearly avoided the subject. Respect the person’s right to censor sensitive information. But you seem too dense to comprehend that so I guess this will fall on deaf ears also.
I’m not goign to respond further. You dont get it.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
There is a fucking STEROIDS FORUM. With people talking about this stuff ALL DAY. Why are you harping on this subject in this thread?? He clearly is not saying anything one way or the other on the subject. Are you saying you want everyone to have an open discussion of PED’s in this particular thread? Have you gone onto Prisoner’s RMP and ask him? Or what about all the other guys with great physiques, I wont mention names because I have no idea if they use or not.
And since you cant seem to comprehend what I’m saying. When I say “steroids dont do any of the work” that means that steroids are not moving the weights. I was commenting on a techinicality in the other person’s post. The PERSON is doing the work, steroids are amplifying the results. Do you get it yet? In that same post where I said that steroids dont literally do the work I also said that steroids are responsible for a lot more than 10% of the results. Did you conveniently overlook that?
[/quote]
There is also a training forum, why harp on training here? Same with diet.
I�¢??m not saying everyone needs to discuss anything. I�¢??m saying they should be free to. Huge difference.
And yes, if I wanna ask you can be damn sure I will.
Let me put the Ã?¢??workÃ?¢?? statement into my perspective. LetÃ?¢??s say you set a goal of 200 pounds lean body mass, and you work to get to that goal. Juicing you can get there after 2 years hard work. Without juicing it takes 4 years hard work. Steroids just eliminated half the work to get to that goal. No, they didnÃ?¢??t “do the work” for 2 years but the difference is nothing more than semantics.
Assuming hard work of the individual, they do a lot of work. You assuming that a smaller guy just hasn�¢??t put forth the effort is no different that the smaller guy assuming he just hasn�¢??t taken the drugs. No one can know what if, but that�¢??s why it makes all the more sense to have the concrete discussions of what a guy is actually doing.
Why are you here if all the information is out there? You didn’t answer last time.
[/quote]
What do you mean ‘why am I here’?
And I was only talking about the semantics of “work”. You can pretend to know what youre talking about WRT steroid use. But its never as black and white as you make it sound. Some people lose their gains just as fast as they make them on AAS. Some people respond better to identical doses of AAS compared to others. Some people dont make any gains at all because their livers fail and their heart hypertrophies. If you want to take ONE example of a person reaching his goal in half the time then fine, do that. But I already said that steroids will amplify the RESULTS. We know this. Steroids didnt ‘do half the work’. They just make the work twice as rewarding. That is the most literal explanation of what happens with proper steroid use.
[/quote]
That is the exact definition I used in my example. I only used half the time because it was a round number. Make it 8.3756% if that’s better. It is still less work to get equal results.
If you are acknowledging they are such a large part of success, shouldn’t they be discussed?
No, I have not. I have no problem with people putting whatever they want in their bodies. I certainly haven’t insulting users any more than you constantly insult natural guys. The only argument I’ve made is to let people discuss it who want to. That’s it.
I don’t use them out of health concerns. But I don’t consider it cheating any more than a guy who is willing to eat more red meat than me to get big. Some people are simply willing to take steps that I am not, I personally don’t see that as cheating or a short cut. Going by the most direct route isn’t a short cut, I chose to take a long cut.
[quote]
And I asked why you are harping on AAS use because the OP has clearly avoided the subject. Respect the person’s right to censor sensitive information. But you seem too dense to comprehend that so I guess this will fall on deaf ears also.
I’m not goign to respond further. You dont get it. [/quote]
The op isn’t being forced to talk about anything. AND I apologize to him for the terrible hi-jack, But I see this crap so much I finally had enough of it.
He is as free to not discuss it was we are to discuss it.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
What do you mean ‘why am I here’?
[/quote]
I was returning your question of why I “had” to discuss steroids when there are other places for the information. There are other places for all the information, so why discuss anything here then?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
There is a fucking STEROIDS FORUM. With people talking about this stuff ALL DAY. Why are you harping on this subject in this thread?? He clearly is not saying anything one way or the other on the subject. Are you saying you want everyone to have an open discussion of PED’s in this particular thread? Have you gone onto Prisoner’s RMP and ask him? Or what about all the other guys with great physiques, I wont mention names because I have no idea if they use or not.
And since you cant seem to comprehend what I’m saying. When I say “steroids dont do any of the work” that means that steroids are not moving the weights. I was commenting on a techinicality in the other person’s post. The PERSON is doing the work, steroids are amplifying the results. Do you get it yet? In that same post where I said that steroids dont literally do the work I also said that steroids are responsible for a lot more than 10% of the results. Did you conveniently overlook that?
[/quote]
There is also a training forum, why harp on training here? Same with diet.
I�?�¢??m not saying everyone needs to discuss anything. I�?�¢??m saying they should be free to. Huge difference.
And yes, if I wanna ask you can be damn sure I will.
Let me put the Ã??Ã?¢??workÃ??Ã?¢?? statement into my perspective. LetÃ??Ã?¢??s say you set a goal of 200 pounds lean body mass, and you work to get to that goal. Juicing you can get there after 2 years hard work. Without juicing it takes 4 years hard work. Steroids just eliminated half the work to get to that goal. No, they didnÃ??Ã?¢??t “do the work” for 2 years but the difference is nothing more than semantics.
Assuming hard work of the individual, they do a lot of work. You assuming that a smaller guy just hasn�?�¢??t put forth the effort is no different that the smaller guy assuming he just hasn�?�¢??t taken the drugs. No one can know what if, but that�?�¢??s why it makes all the more sense to have the concrete discussions of what a guy is actually doing.
Why are you here if all the information is out there? You didn’t answer last time.
[/quote]
What do you mean ‘why am I here’?
And I was only talking about the semantics of “work”. You can pretend to know what youre talking about WRT steroid use. But its never as black and white as you make it sound. Some people lose their gains just as fast as they make them on AAS. Some people respond better to identical doses of AAS compared to others. Some people dont make any gains at all because their livers fail and their heart hypertrophies. If you want to take ONE example of a person reaching his goal in half the time then fine, do that. But I already said that steroids will amplify the RESULTS. We know this. Steroids didnt ‘do half the work’. They just make the work twice as rewarding. That is the most literal explanation of what happens with proper steroid use.
[/quote]
That is the exact definition I used in my example. I only used half the time because it was a round number. Make it 8.3756% if that’s better. It is still less work to get equal results.
If you are acknowledging they are such a large part of success, shouldn’t they be discussed?
No, I have not. I have no problem with people putting whatever they want in their bodies. I certainly haven’t insulting users any more than you constantly insult natural guys. The only argument I’ve made is to let people discuss it who want to. That’s it.
I don’t use them out of health concerns. But I don’t consider it cheating any more than a guy who is willing to eat more red meat than me to get big. Some people are simply willing to take steps that I am not, I personally don’t see that as cheating or a short cut. Going by the most direct route isn’t a short cut, I chose to take a long cut.
[quote]
And I asked why you are harping on AAS use because the OP has clearly avoided the subject. Respect the person’s right to censor sensitive information. But you seem too dense to comprehend that so I guess this will fall on deaf ears also.
I’m not goign to respond further. You dont get it. [/quote]
The op isn’t being forced to talk about anything. AND I apologize to him for the terrible hi-jack, But I see this crap so much I finally had enough of it.
He is as free to not discuss it was we are to discuss it.[/quote]
I talk about steroids almost every day in the steroids forum. I’ve never seen you post there.
I already told you why they aren’t discussed publicly. Legal reasons and because people consider it a “secret to success”. I dont agree with the second part but thats how it is. Do you understand that people can go to jail for buying and possessing these drugs in America?
The fact that you think people using steroids dont work as hard as naturals is a joke. Go post that in the steroids forum here or anywhere else and see what kind of reaction you get. Steroids have nothing do with how hard someone works; some people work hard and some people dont.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
There is a fucking STEROIDS FORUM. With people talking about this stuff ALL DAY. Why are you harping on this subject in this thread?? He clearly is not saying anything one way or the other on the subject. Are you saying you want everyone to have an open discussion of PED’s in this particular thread? Have you gone onto Prisoner’s RMP and ask him? Or what about all the other guys with great physiques, I wont mention names because I have no idea if they use or not.
And since you cant seem to comprehend what I’m saying. When I say “steroids dont do any of the work” that means that steroids are not moving the weights. I was commenting on a techinicality in the other person’s post. The PERSON is doing the work, steroids are amplifying the results. Do you get it yet? In that same post where I said that steroids dont literally do the work I also said that steroids are responsible for a lot more than 10% of the results. Did you conveniently overlook that?
[/quote]
There is also a training forum, why harp on training here? Same with diet.
I�??�?�¢??m not saying everyone needs to discuss anything. I�??�?�¢??m saying they should be free to. Huge difference.
And yes, if I wanna ask you can be damn sure I will.
Let me put the Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??workÃ???Ã??Ã?¢?? statement into my perspective. LetÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??s say you set a goal of 200 pounds lean body mass, and you work to get to that goal. Juicing you can get there after 2 years hard work. Without juicing it takes 4 years hard work. Steroids just eliminated half the work to get to that goal. No, they didnÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??t “do the work” for 2 years but the difference is nothing more than semantics.
Assuming hard work of the individual, they do a lot of work. You assuming that a smaller guy just hasn�??�?�¢??t put forth the effort is no different that the smaller guy assuming he just hasn�??�?�¢??t taken the drugs. No one can know what if, but that�??�?�¢??s why it makes all the more sense to have the concrete discussions of what a guy is actually doing.
Why are you here if all the information is out there? You didn’t answer last time.
[/quote]
What do you mean ‘why am I here’?
And I was only talking about the semantics of “work”. You can pretend to know what youre talking about WRT steroid use. But its never as black and white as you make it sound. Some people lose their gains just as fast as they make them on AAS. Some people respond better to identical doses of AAS compared to others. Some people dont make any gains at all because their livers fail and their heart hypertrophies. If you want to take ONE example of a person reaching his goal in half the time then fine, do that. But I already said that steroids will amplify the RESULTS. We know this. Steroids didnt ‘do half the work’. They just make the work twice as rewarding. That is the most literal explanation of what happens with proper steroid use.
[/quote]
That is the exact definition I used in my example. I only used half the time because it was a round number. Make it 8.3756% if that’s better. It is still less work to get equal results.
If you are acknowledging they are such a large part of success, shouldn’t they be discussed?
No, I have not. I have no problem with people putting whatever they want in their bodies. I certainly haven’t insulting users any more than you constantly insult natural guys. The only argument I’ve made is to let people discuss it who want to. That’s it.
I don’t use them out of health concerns. But I don’t consider it cheating any more than a guy who is willing to eat more red meat than me to get big. Some people are simply willing to take steps that I am not, I personally don’t see that as cheating or a short cut. Going by the most direct route isn’t a short cut, I chose to take a long cut.
[quote]
And I asked why you are harping on AAS use because the OP has clearly avoided the subject. Respect the person’s right to censor sensitive information. But you seem too dense to comprehend that so I guess this will fall on deaf ears also.
I’m not goign to respond further. You dont get it. [/quote]
The op isn’t being forced to talk about anything. AND I apologize to him for the terrible hi-jack, But I see this crap so much I finally had enough of it.
He is as free to not discuss it was we are to discuss it.[/quote]
I talk about steroids almost every day in the steroids forum. I’ve never seen you post there.
I already told you why they aren’t discussed publicly. Legal reasons and because people consider it a “secret to success”. I dont agree with the second part but thats how it is. Do you understand that people can go to jail for buying and possessing these drugs in America?
The fact that you think people using steroids dont work as hard as naturals is a joke. Go post that in the steroids forum here or anywhere else and see what kind of reaction you get. Steroids have nothing do with how hard someone works; some people work hard and some people dont. [/quote]
Yes, and no one can force anyone to talk about them.
Where did I say anything about anyone not working as hard? You’re making this crap up. And I only read in that forum because I don’t feel I have the knowledge to post.
this kid is big for 19 regardless of if he plans to admit to juicing or not. I have seen a lot of people juice and not get close to that. Either way he is obviously working out like animal and eating so as well.
[quote]MeBigUsmall wrote:
if he plans to admit to juicing or not.[/quote]
Did you read the start of this thread?
He has already “admitted” to not using.
Don’t steroids allow you to “work harder” though? I’ve taken a cycle of tren (ph) before, and I was on another planet lol. I had so much energy all the time, it was ridiculous. At the time it was JC basketball tryouts. So I’d go there for 4 hours (which included tons of sprints and basketball drills), and then I’d lift. I still managed to gain 15 pounds in a month. And that’s a damn pro hormone! I mean I always work hard in the gym, that’s just me and always will be. But for the sake of argument…it does make you a little crazy lol. Also, who doesn’t get excited to lift when their on juice? It’s like you’re literally watching yourself grow. The same dude could be a complete lazy fuck w/o it. And I have personally seen this with people, especially in the college community.
[quote]ritzgooch23 wrote:
Don’t steroids allow you to “work harder” though? I’ve taken a cycle of tren (ph) before, and I was on another planet lol. I had so much energy all the time, it was ridiculous. At the time it was JC basketball tryouts. So I’d go there for 4 hours (which included tons of sprints and basketball drills), and then I’d lift. I still managed to gain 15 pounds in a month. And that’s a damn pro hormone! I mean I always work hard in the gym, that’s just me and always will be. But for the sake of argument…it does make you a little crazy lol. Also, who doesn’t get excited to lift when their on juice? It’s like you’re literally watching yourself grow. The same dude could be a complete lazy fuck w/o it. And I have personally seen this with people, especially in the college community. [/quote]
in short - yes.
[quote]ritzgooch23 wrote:
Don’t steroids allow you to “work harder” though? I’ve taken a cycle of tren (ph) before, and I was on another planet lol. I had so much energy all the time, it was ridiculous. At the time it was JC basketball tryouts. So I’d go there for 4 hours (which included tons of sprints and basketball drills), and then I’d lift. I still managed to gain 15 pounds in a month. And that’s a damn pro hormone! I mean I always work hard in the gym, that’s just me and always will be. But for the sake of argument…it does make you a little crazy lol. Also, who doesn’t get excited to lift when their on juice? It’s like you’re literally watching yourself grow. The same dude could be a complete lazy fuck w/o it. And I have personally seen this with people, especially in the college community. [/quote]
Those tren PHs are closer to birth control pills than they are to anabolic steroids.
So you experienced a mild (at best) anabolic effect + placebo for the energy + the gains you would have gotten while working extra hard as a newb
For the record. No one in their right mind will say that anabolic steroids dont work. Except doctors circa 1980’s examining test subjects who used them while NOT doing any weight lifting or physical activity.
this kid is not natural period. Not even close to a bad thing, just the truth. He looks amazing and obviously works his ass off. to even argue about it is stupid.