[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Sliver wrote:
Why not just desegregate the sports and let the women compete with the men?
All women, or just ones that want to? Not sure if you’ve ever noticed, but men usually are stronger and faster than woman by a large margin. It would not be fair.[/quote]
Two athletes compete and the best one wins. Sounds perfectly fair to me.
Why do you people think she needs to be fixed?
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Sliver wrote:
Why not just desegregate the sports and let the women compete with the men?
All women, or just ones that want to? Not sure if you’ve ever noticed, but men usually are stronger and faster than woman by a large margin. It would not be fair.[/quote]
I believe feminists would argue otherwise. Would be a hell of a competition though.
[quote]Sliver wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
Sliver wrote:
Why not just desegregate the sports and let the women compete with the men?
All women, or just ones that want to? Not sure if you’ve ever noticed, but men usually are stronger and faster than woman by a large margin. It would not be fair.
Two athletes compete and the best one wins. Sounds perfectly fair to me.[/quote]
Football men vs women? Weightlifting? Bodybuilding? Strongman (Strongperson?) comps?
I would agree from the perspective of this “equality” that many woman want, but it would not work because men are naturally bigger and stronger than women.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
can men get there testes cut off and race against females.[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]matko5 wrote:
Why do you people think she needs to be fixed?[/quote]
she doesn’t conform to the binary gender model, obviously!
she doesn’t need to be fixed. this has to be a tough thing to go through.
I don’t think they picked her out because of her t-levels. Several years ago they were in the acceptable range for women. Some female athletes have much higher t levels than average women.
If her t levels are much higher than then, then doping may be at play hermaphrodite or not.
They singled her out because she is an hermaprodite and very successful , not because of her t levels.
To the poster that said 1:55 for an 18 year old is outstanding or that she could compete with the rest of the guys:
1:55 will maybe get you in the top 10 - 15 of high school males (14 - 19) in the state of pennsylvania. New Jersey, california, texas, florida probably, it will put you in the top 20 maybe or so. Of those guys, most of them are lucky to ever break 1:50. For somebody to be competitive (read: to make the US olympic trials finals), he’d have to run a 1:47 or 1:48 maybe. To qualify, he’d have to run 1:44 usually by the time of being 25 - 27 at the oldest.
If this person would compete as a male, he’d never see the light of day in the olympics most likely. To make the olympic finals, you usually have to be a 1:44 runner and hope for a couple good rounds (2 - 3 rounds) of running 1:44 - 1:47. I don’t think it’d turn out so well.
"Basically, she’s most likely XXY, but they needed to do more tests than simple swab and chromosomal analysis. "
It’s possible the Caster is XXY, known as Klinefelter syndrome, but more likely to be XY “female” due to androgen insensitivity. Typically a Klinefelter would present as a male, including male genitalia; however said genitalia would be smaller than normal. Most, though not all, would be entirely indistinguishable from another male short of specific testing. Some variants may be more distinguishable by developing pseudo-breasts. Androgen insensitivity would explain pretty much every variation we see in Caster though. There is a wide variation of outcomes from androgen insensitivity (and by insensitivity, it seems to be in reference to sexual development more than muscle, etc…) however Caster fits in nicely with the supposed reports of blind genitalia, testes in the abdomen, and muscle/strength development of a male.
As far as competition, I had heard that WADA defines male/female by XY/XX differentiation except in the instance of a declared sex change and appropriate hormone therapy to conform to the excepted norms of the given gender. Haven’t checked this, it may be wrong.
Really though, both the ASA and the IAAF should be ashamed that this has turned into the public spectacle it has. Particularly the ASA as the testing process started well before Berlin and they had results demonstrating extreme testosterone profiles prior to the finals. They ought to have protected Caster by claiming an injury before the race and concluding the testing quietly. Caster is an unforetunate victim in this whole thing.
That shit should’ve been kept confidential…
Fuckin morons who outed her like this should be kicked in the balls.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Dwigs wrote:
They both do…except the hairy armpits kind of give Jarmila an edge…lol.
A
[/quote]
Hairy armpits will never give Jarms an Edge. Never ever!
[quote]Stuntman Mike wrote:
on edge wrote:
I assume she passed the basic gender test because it’s pretty standard and easy. By “passing” I mean she is chromosomally XX. If that’s the case, and by some hormonal fluke during development her ovaries formed into testes, I don’t see how they can prevent her from competing as a woman. She is chromosomally female and just has the “lucky” advantage of having way more testosterone.
I’m very interested in hearing if she is XX, XY or XXY.
Even if she is XX, she still has the obvious unfair advantage of balls.
Why would anyone else even try until she retires? [/quote]
Why does anyone try against Bolt? He has an unfair genetic advantage too. He will likely die with the record in the 100, the 200 and maybe even the 400.
It doesn’t matter if Semenaya has an unfair advantage in testosterone levels if she is genetically female (XX). Decathlete Dave Johnson naturally had over the limit testosterone. They didn’t bar him from competing, they gave him a pass because he showed that it was natural for him and he wasn’t cheating by taking extra testosterone.
[quote]on edge wrote:
Stuntman Mike wrote:
on edge wrote:
I assume she passed the basic gender test because it’s pretty standard and easy. By “passing” I mean she is chromosomally XX. If that’s the case, and by some hormonal fluke during development her ovaries formed into testes, I don’t see how they can prevent her from competing as a woman. She is chromosomally female and just has the “lucky” advantage of having way more testosterone.
I’m very interested in hearing if she is XX, XY or XXY.
Even if she is XX, she still has the obvious unfair advantage of balls.
Why would anyone else even try until she retires?
Why does anyone try against Bolt? He has an unfair genetic advantage too. He will likely die with the record in the 100, the 200 and maybe even the 400.
It doesn’t matter if Semenaya has an unfair advantage in testosterone levels if she is genetically female (XX). Decathlete Dave Johnson naturally had over the limit testosterone. They didn’t bar him from competing, they gave him a pass because he showed that it was natural for him and he wasn’t cheating by taking extra testosterone.[/quote]
Agreed. She shouldn’t have even been sidelined for this and this definitely shouldn’t have been public info. I hope this ridiculous attempt to make all things fair (because they never are to begin with) backfires on the entire world of sports.
Some people are born faster, smarter, with higher test levels or the ability to gain muscle faster than others. This steroid witch hunt is bullshit and doesn’t seem to be doing much but destroying lives.
[quote]matko5 wrote:
Why do you people think she needs to be fixed?[/quote]
I was wondering this myself. Assuming there isn’t any sort of health threat, why does she need to be “fixed”? So she can fit nicely into one our little male/female sexual binary? Because people get really uncomfortable with any sort of gray area, especially when it comes to sex and gender?
And what, exactly does it mean to “get fixed”? To have “normal” test levels? I’m not sure about the range for women, but for men, the normal range is huge. At what point does someone get to decide that hers are low enough to be acceptable?
And finally, why should she be expected to let others make decisions about her body? I understand that being a highly competitive athlete complicates this situation a great deal, but shouldn’t she have the freedom to make her own choices about her body, regardless of whether or not she will be able to compete as a result of that decision?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
on edge wrote:
Stuntman Mike wrote:
on edge wrote:
I assume she passed the basic gender test because it’s pretty standard and easy. By “passing” I mean she is chromosomally XX. If that’s the case, and by some hormonal fluke during development her ovaries formed into testes, I don’t see how they can prevent her from competing as a woman. She is chromosomally female and just has the “lucky” advantage of having way more testosterone.
I’m very interested in hearing if she is XX, XY or XXY.
Even if she is XX, she still has the obvious unfair advantage of balls.
Why would anyone else even try until she retires?
Why does anyone try against Bolt? He has an unfair genetic advantage too. He will likely die with the record in the 100, the 200 and maybe even the 400.
It doesn’t matter if Semenaya has an unfair advantage in testosterone levels if she is genetically female (XX). Decathlete Dave Johnson naturally had over the limit testosterone. They didn’t bar him from competing, they gave him a pass because he showed that it was natural for him and he wasn’t cheating by taking extra testosterone.
Agreed. She shouldn’t have even been sidelined for this and this definitely shouldn’t have been public info. I hope this ridiculous attempt to make all things fair (because they never are to begin with) backfires on the entire world of sports.
Some people are born faster, smarter, with higher test levels or the ability to gain muscle faster than others. This steroid witch hunt is bullshit and doesn’t seem to be doing much but destroying lives.[/quote]
I agree that it shouldn’t be made public, but from what I understand (I’ve followed this the past couple weeks) is that south africa knew about this before her going to Worlds. One of the agents for the runners or representatives stepped down saying, “I can’t face myself in the mirror knowing we let this go on.” This seems to be similar to what happened to some of the East Germans, somewhat (their not knowing they were given PEDs) and then some of them committed suicide or had to have sex changes.
I don’t think this is a ridiculous attempt to make things fair to some degree. It’s a matter of male vs. female sex, with one person possessing an extra chromosome or a chromosome that isn’t defined as female. As of now, that’s what it’s considered, but I can see the repurcussions of this going to "if an athlete has “blank” chromosome, he/she shouldn’t be allowed to compete. And I do agree, that could be scary.
[quote]on edge wrote:
I assume she passed the basic gender test because it’s pretty standard and easy. By “passing” I mean she is chromosomally XX. If that’s the case, and by some hormonal fluke during development her ovaries formed into testes, I don’t see how they can prevent her from competing as a woman. She is chromosomally female and just has the “lucky” advantage of having way more testosterone.
I’m very interested in hearing if she is XX, XY or XXY.[/quote]
I thinks she would be XXY, the Y giving her the testes and extra testosterone. The genetic default is female. If a person is XO, meaning they did not get a chromosome from their father, they are considered female. They even look female and mature as females, with obvious genetic faults, but they are still considered female.
The solution then is to set up a Super Special Olympics.
So we have one for disabled people, one for superable people and one for normal levels people.
[quote]Alpha F wrote:
The solution then is to set up a Super Special Olympics.
So we have one for disabled people, one for superable people and one for normal levels people.[/quote]
Yeah, it’s like people have something against others because they are genetically superior to them.
This is what competition is all about.
[quote]Dwigs wrote:
This is a pic of the current 800m world record holder for woman, Jarmila Kratochvilova. Now who looks like more of a man to you?[/quote]
I think I see a small package down there. Has to be a dude!
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
on edge wrote:
I assume she passed the basic gender test because it’s pretty standard and easy. By “passing” I mean she is chromosomally XX. If that’s the case, and by some hormonal fluke during development her ovaries formed into testes, I don’t see how they can prevent her from competing as a woman. She is chromosomally female and just has the “lucky” advantage of having way more testosterone.
I’m very interested in hearing if she is XX, XY or XXY.
I thinks she would be XXY, the Y giving her the testes and extra testosterone. The genetic default is female. If a person is XO, meaning they did not get a chromosome from their father, they are considered female. They even look female and mature as females, with obvious genetic faults, but they are still considered female. [/quote]
This is a very sexy post.