[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
no, there was a holocaust, but why no mention of the millions and millions of whales that were killed over the last many hundreds of years. and please, dont’ say “well, they aren’t humans.” they are living beings, humans are not better than them and don’t deserve any greater sympathy. why no memorial for all the tortured and slaughtered animals. [/quote]
[/quote]
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Wasn’t he returned a couple of times before you got him?
[/quote]
Yeah, and he was going down if we didn’t keep him.
He has some pretty serious scaring the vet said, so someone fucked with this dog pretty bad at some point.
He’s a good mutt though, all he needed was some direction, and my wife’s foot up his ass. (Funny that worked for me too.)[/quote]
Awesome pooch bro, I could see why him sleeping on the bed may be an issue lol.
it seems like a few of you just expect anyone smaller than you to cower and do as they’re told if you speak to them.
LOL
More than 90% of the adults I encounter on a daily basis are bigger than me. If I had to submit to every one of them due to their size, I’d spend the rest of my life hiding under a blanket in my home crying. What a joke.
But hey, thanks for reminding me why I don’t leave the house unarmed.
Big tree fall hard.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
no, there was a holocaust, but why no mention of the millions and millions of whales that were killed over the last many hundreds of years. and please, dont’ say “well, they aren’t humans.” they are living beings, humans are not better than them and don’t deserve any greater sympathy. why no memorial for all the tortured and slaughtered animals. [/quote]
Clearly we ARE better than them or we wouldn’t be able to kill them whenever we feel like it.
[quote]dre1986 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Just curious as to what treating a dog as a dog entails, [/quote]
to me, it means:
The animal has clear and consistent boundaries. It is absolutely NOT allowed on the furniture when anyone is home, and NEVER under and circumstance on your bed, NEVER. Home or not. Certain rooms are off limits to the dog, and he is not to be invited into them.
The dog is to be walked every morning, and given the appropriate avenues to allow him/her to exercise. Some lazy dogs will be good with a mile, some smaller dogs less even, but if your dog needs 3 miles a day (mine) and still runs on the lead like a mad man 3 nights out of 7… Well you do what cha gotta do. The dog should also be given the proper toys as to keep him from destroying your shit out of boredom.
Unacceptable behavior is corrected immediately. Your dog does what you say.
You do not, under any situation try and “comfort” a dog. It isn’t a fucking child. You will reinforce it’s panic or obsession. The animal is not to be treated like a person in any way.
Affection & love should be treats, not just shitty cookies. “good boy” and “bad boy” should both be words it “understands”.
Only calm behavior is rewarded. The calm has to last for more than 10 seconds. Thsi is why most people fail at trying to treat bribe a dog, IMO. They reward the dog before he has completely come out of it.
Human walks through all door ways first. even if you have to call the dog back 7 times.
Human dictates where and when you stop on a walk, where and when the dog shits and pisses.
You have to calm, patient and empathic. It is a dog. It isn’t a human. If you lose your temper it will think you are crazy. But you need to light the dog up verbally now and again when it tests you. If you aren’t strong and consistent, it will test you.
If you control the food, you control the dog. It loves food more than you. [/quote]
wehay we got the doy whisperer in the house - are you Cesar in disguise??
[/quote]
You think Cesar pioneered dog training or something? Some of us have been training dogs this way with great success for many many years.
Another thing Cesar might say that is absolutely as true as a statement could ever be: Training the dog is easy, training the human is almost a lost cause. The root cause is that most humans don’t have a clue how to be a leader. In fact, they are in worse need of a strong leader than the dog is (and that’s why the dog takes over, he doesn’t trust your leadership).
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]Dahollow wrote:
Hi there,
Yesterday I went to town with some friends to grab a drink when I saw a young couple with a little dog (6 months old or something). When we passed by, the dog was not listening to it’s owners. Suddenly the guy grabbed the dog and handled it in a rough manner.
The animal friend in me forced me to say something about it, so I said he shouldn’t do that.
I was shocked to see the damn tree hugger (he could fit in me twice easily) going at me, calling me a snob and that I should mind my fucking business. Even his girlfriend starting going berserk at me…
I didn’t react to their insulting and after giving him the look, I just turned and walked away.
Sure, it’s the smartest thing to do. I didn’t want to risk a criminal record over such a silly fight.
But still, it’s eating at my ego. Apparently weighing 230lbs of solid muscle does not hold anyone back. The thing is, when I see a buffed guy, not a hair on my head would think about bad mouthing him.
So there you have it: defending animal rights is for snobs! [/quote]
dude, good for you for speaking up about animal abuse. I would have said something also. nothing angers me more than people abusing animals. and we humans are fucking savages when it comes to abusing, killing animals. just ask all the whales and grizzly bears we hunted by the millions. that is a true holacaust in my view. why no memorial for them, hmmmmmm? this is a real pet peeve for me.
You should have reminded them that animal abuse is illegal and they might not like it if someone “bigger” than them, started to abuse them. say it with a smile. lol. [/quote]
For clarification purposes when you state “a true holocaust” is there a false holocaust in your eyes? [/quote]
no, there was a holocaust, but why no mention of the millions and millions of whales that were killed over the last many hundreds of years. and please, dont’ say “well, they aren’t humans.” they are living beings, humans are not better than them and don’t deserve any greater sympathy. why no memorial for all the tortured and slaughtered animals. [/quote]
Do you eat meat? Wear leather? Yes? Then SPARE US THIS RAVING STUPIDITY.[/quote]
I wear what is available. am i supposed to go barefoot. lol. as far as eating meat. I rarely if ever eat meat. but that argument is no long valid. i didn’t kill those animals. but eating is necessary. we eat whats available. if meat wasn’t available, id eat something else. and as far i know, i m not wearing any leather.
anyone who thinks that animals bond merely for food is sadly mistaken. I know you guys like to be all bad ass and tough. but watch this video, if your that hardcore and can’t feel any emotions, even then it will still effect you.
[quote]Nards wrote:
The thing that irks me about “Save The Whales” and “Save The Redwoods” is that the hippies only think about those two things because they’re really big.
Isn’t that Capitalist kind of thinking?[/quote]
well, the whales were hunted with savage disregard. they were hunted by the millions. the most painful way to die. i only mentioned them, cause they are a huge example of humans incompacity to feel for other living beings. to think they are superior. when in fact many scientists beleive the whale is as smart if not smarter than humans are. but intelligence shouldn’t be a factor in who gets to be treated decently.
[quote]fishpaste wrote:
Look, folks. Don’t beat your dog in public. Don’t smack your kid in the restaurant. And if somebody like the OP comes along and tells you to stop, lose the ego. There’s actually other (more important) things in the world than the 3 or 4 living things in your “family.”
[/quote]
Children or pets do not only misbehave in the privacy of the home. You can make the argument all day long that adults misbehave all the time as well, and I’d agree. Unfortunately it’s not your job (or mine) to correct other adults.
The real ego involved is the one of the person that thinks it’s their business to insert themselves when their conception of what constitutes proper and just parenting/animal training does not jive with what they are seeing in front of them. In doing so, that person is putting themself above the person they choose to correct, which is never going to go over well unless they are extremely tactful in their approach.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
no, there was a holocaust, but why no mention of the millions and millions of whales that were killed over the last many hundreds of years. and please, dont’ say “well, they aren’t humans.” they are living beings, humans are not better than them and don’t deserve any greater sympathy. why no memorial for all the tortured and slaughtered animals. [/quote]
Clearly we ARE better than them or we wouldn’t be able to kill them whenever we feel like it.
[/quote]
perfect examply of why i hate and despise human beings. just cause you can kill something, that makes you better??? so, you can kill your son or daughter right??? does that make you better, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm???
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]dre1986 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Just curious as to what treating a dog as a dog entails, [/quote]
to me, it means:
The animal has clear and consistent boundaries. It is absolutely NOT allowed on the furniture when anyone is home, and NEVER under and circumstance on your bed, NEVER. Home or not. Certain rooms are off limits to the dog, and he is not to be invited into them.
The dog is to be walked every morning, and given the appropriate avenues to allow him/her to exercise. Some lazy dogs will be good with a mile, some smaller dogs less even, but if your dog needs 3 miles a day (mine) and still runs on the lead like a mad man 3 nights out of 7… Well you do what cha gotta do. The dog should also be given the proper toys as to keep him from destroying your shit out of boredom.
Unacceptable behavior is corrected immediately. Your dog does what you say.
You do not, under any situation try and “comfort” a dog. It isn’t a fucking child. You will reinforce it’s panic or obsession. The animal is not to be treated like a person in any way.
Affection & love should be treats, not just shitty cookies. “good boy” and “bad boy” should both be words it “understands”.
Only calm behavior is rewarded. The calm has to last for more than 10 seconds. Thsi is why most people fail at trying to treat bribe a dog, IMO. They reward the dog before he has completely come out of it.
Human walks through all door ways first. even if you have to call the dog back 7 times.
Human dictates where and when you stop on a walk, where and when the dog shits and pisses.
You have to calm, patient and empathic. It is a dog. It isn’t a human. If you lose your temper it will think you are crazy. But you need to light the dog up verbally now and again when it tests you. If you aren’t strong and consistent, it will test you.
If you control the food, you control the dog. It loves food more than you. [/quote]
wehay we got the doy whisperer in the house - are you Cesar in disguise??
[/quote]
You think Cesar pioneered dog training or something? Some of us have been training dogs this way with great success for many many years.
Another thing Cesar might say that is absolutely as true as a statement could ever be: Training the dog is easy, training the human is almost a lost cause. The root cause is that most humans don’t have a clue how to be a leader. In fact, they are in worse need of a strong leader than the dog is (and that’s why the dog takes over, he doesn’t trust your leadership).[/quote]
Thats why he rehabilitates dogs and he trains people!
The Dog Wheeesperer FTW!
I love the guy, met him once and was very cool
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I love the guy, met him once and was very cool[/quote]
Dude doesn’t fuck around, it is great.
Some of those pokes and leash corrections he uses would have some people in this thread calling animal services, lol.
The best part about him, is his passion for what he does. He is happy to be alive and happy to be working with pups… It is nice to see people truly enjoy what they do.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
I wear what is available. am i supposed to go barefoot. lol. as far as eating meat. I rarely if ever eat meat. but that argument is no long valid. i didn’t kill those animals. but eating is necessary. we eat whats available. if meat wasn’t available, id eat something else. and as far i know, i m not wearing any leather. [/quote]
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I love the guy, met him once and was very cool[/quote]
Dude doesn’t fuck around, it is great.
Some of those pokes and leash corrections he uses would have some people in this thread calling animal services, lol.
The best part about him, is his passion for what he does. He is happy to be alive and happy to be working with pups… It is nice to see people truly enjoy what they do.[/quote]
Yeah dude, I loved his dog Daddy, I was pretty upset when he passed.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
no, there was a holocaust, but why no mention of the millions and millions of whales that were killed over the last many hundreds of years. and please, dont’ say “well, they aren’t humans.” they are living beings, humans are not better than them and don’t deserve any greater sympathy. why no memorial for all the tortured and slaughtered animals. [/quote]
Clearly we ARE better than them or we wouldn’t be able to kill them whenever we feel like it.
[/quote]
perfect examply of why i hate and despise human beings. just cause you can kill something, that makes you better??? so, you can kill your son or daughter right??? does that make you better, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm???[/quote]
Yes to all three questions.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Also, hitting a dog is pointless and counterproductive. We’ve taken in abused dogs who cower and piss themselves everytime you raise your voice, hand or pick up something like a newspaper or stick. Some recovered, some never did.[/quote]
Classical correlation/causation fallacy above.
The biggest problem with animal husbandry as it concerns dogs is the pet market, which perpetuates poorly bred animals and the biggest problem is not “physical beauty”, because that’s all most breeders breed for - the problem is one of poor nerves. And this has infected the “working dog” market too such that’s it difficult with some working breeds to get a specimen that will actually perform adequately .
The dogs you describe could have had bad nerves and been a nightmare for any owner hence, “some recovered, SOME NEVER DID”. I’ll say it again (and I have a long working dog background), PROPER physical corrections have their place, but “proper” is usually “sparingly” and “surgical”.
A proper physical correct to a working dog can be the difference between LIFE AND DEATH. For example, you don’t break your hunting dog from chasing cattle, and you will have a dead dog because some farmer WILL shoot your dog, and he’ll be in his legal rights to do so.
Some people confuse physical corrections with a training methodology itself as opposed to a tool in your toolbox if training methods. Some people use harsh physical corrections every time a dog does something objectionable, or doesn’t follow a command. Of course, this is incorrect.
Physical corrections (and there are a wide range of “physical corrections”, ranging from a sharp tug on the leash to restricting air by that same leash) are a tool in your training tool box. With some breeds, there is no room for error when it comes to some behaviors, and therefore “harsh” corrections have their place as well.
It was once said by a very famous and successful trainer that one good harsh correction (when necessary) is less cruel than a lifetime of “nagging” corrections and I agree.
You have described (to the extent your correlation fallacy was accurate) abuse, not proper training, and not proper physical corrections. A properly administered harsh physical correction is not abuse.[/quote]
You’re talking about using a choker collar. I’m talking about people who regularly bash their dogs till they have broken broken bones and internal injuries. One of our dogs lost an eye from a beating she had taken.
Not sure what you mean by ‘poor nerves’ infecting the breeder market. Poorly bred mongrels infect the pet market. Poorly bred(i.e. selected for appearance) thoroughbreds have been a problem for centuries. The modern bulldog is a classic example. When it was no longer used in bull baiting breeders began selectively breeding for appearance.
See comparison in wikipedia between a working bulldog from 1790(oil painting) and a modern bulldog.[/quote]
No, I’m not limiting my comments to “using a choke collar”.
I agree that “regularly bash their dog” is counterproductive and abusive.
And I don’t need bulldog lesson 
I collect that art and have many etchings, prints, etc. of bulldogs, terriers and other hunting dogs from the 1800’s.
When I say poor nerves, I mean that too many dogs do not respond well to stress. Stress can be anything from new surroundings, loud noises, children - whatever the trigger. Like a person, you don’t really know your animal until you’ve seen it under stress.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Training the dog is easy, training the human is almost a lost cause. [/quote]
QFT
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]Dahollow wrote:
Hi there,
Yesterday I went to town with some friends to grab a drink when I saw a young couple with a little dog (6 months old or something). When we passed by, the dog was not listening to it’s owners. Suddenly the guy grabbed the dog and handled it in a rough manner.
The animal friend in me forced me to say something about it, so I said he shouldn’t do that.
I was shocked to see the damn tree hugger (he could fit in me twice easily) going at me, calling me a snob and that I should mind my fucking business. Even his girlfriend starting going berserk at me…
I didn’t react to their insulting and after giving him the look, I just turned and walked away.
Sure, it’s the smartest thing to do. I didn’t want to risk a criminal record over such a silly fight.
But still, it’s eating at my ego. Apparently weighing 230lbs of solid muscle does not hold anyone back. The thing is, when I see a buffed guy, not a hair on my head would think about bad mouthing him.
So there you have it: defending animal rights is for snobs! [/quote]
dude, good for you for speaking up about animal abuse. I would have said something also. nothing angers me more than people abusing animals. and we humans are fucking savages when it comes to abusing, killing animals. just ask all the whales and grizzly bears we hunted by the millions. that is a true holacaust in my view. why no memorial for them, hmmmmmm? this is a real pet peeve for me.
You should have reminded them that animal abuse is illegal and they might not like it if someone “bigger” than them, started to abuse them. say it with a smile. lol. [/quote]
For clarification purposes when you state “a true holocaust” is there a false holocaust in your eyes? [/quote]
no, there was a holocaust, but why no mention of the millions and millions of whales that were killed over the last many hundreds of years. and please, dont’ say “well, they aren’t humans.” they are living beings, humans are not better than them and don’t deserve any greater sympathy. why no memorial for all the tortured and slaughtered animals. [/quote]
Do you eat meat? Wear leather? Yes? Then SPARE US THIS RAVING STUPIDITY.[/quote]
I wear what is available. am i supposed to go barefoot. lol. as far as eating meat. I rarely if ever eat meat. but that argument is no long valid. i didn’t kill those animals. but eating is necessary. we eat whats available. if meat wasn’t available, id eat something else. and as far i know, i m not wearing any leather. [/quote]
Like I thought, typical hypocrite.
You can avoid animal products should you choose. Those small number that do (and I don’t agree with them) at least avoid being hypocrites when they get on their soap boxes.
And how you got from a dog being handled “roughly” to holocausts and whale killing is beyond my powers of reasoning.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
perfect examply of why i hate and despise human beings. [/quote]
entire chapters in psych books are dedicated to your various neuroses and maladjustments.