Slacker Co-Workers

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Okay, one more post and I’ll drop it. I’ll even us my own office as an example.

We have person A and Person B.

Person A is like a 47 year old version of OP. Fucking psyco to the max, married to his job, you need to be chained to you desk and piss in a bucket or you aren’t dedicated enough. Is, without question, the Might Mouse of the firm, as in if he didn’t work there we’d never get anything accomplished.

Person A is very good at his job, puts in max effort and does excellent work. However, Person A sucks with clients, because he doesn’t know how to act and relate on a human level to normal people. Person A’s attitude towards work is a total and absolute fucking cancer for moral. God it’s fucking annoying. I’m literally the only person in damn near twenty years that’s been able to work with him. Through time I’ve become a buffer between him and, well pretty much anyone else, lmao, whenever possible. How was I able to do that? because I know when to turn it on and turn it off, and getting staff to laugh and enjoy their life when you’re asking them to work 8am until 1am six months out of every year is a lot better than acting like a fucking nutcase about “productivity”.

In fact, acting like that nutjob about “productivity” is counter productive. It communicates a lack of trust, lack of respect and a general air of massive insecure pussy. People don’t like working for massive insecure pussys. So all this flipping the fuck out actually makes people slack even more, and not even begin to feel guilty.

But again, someone who’s been at the firm a year (lmao) would think I was a “slacker” in a lot of ways too. I laugh and joke around, I send people out for coffees, and beers. Sometimes i call it a night and bring the staff down the street for a drink. I’ll tell jokes, I’ll get a conversation going about current events. And GASP I might have a non-OP approved webpage open once in awhile. He’d call me a slacker, but… I’d make triple what he does, and be complimented by the people that sign paychecks for my calm, rational dedication and demeanor. And, end of the year I get more done billing 2k hours as a couple people do billing 2200-2400…

Now, Person B… He is apparently a lot like dude OP is describing. Fucking guy flat out naps at his desk in the afternoon. And good lord is it irritating when he tries to give people the “talk” about “productivity”. But, you know what I don’t have to do when he walks away form a staff? Walk over and make sure they are good to go, and still able to be productive, as he isn’t physco. He can be hypocritical, and an asshole, and I have to smooth over the asshole times, but people will flat out say “thank god he isn’t a phsyco like Person A.” Yes, people would rather work for the Max Slacker than Mr Super Worker Man.

Think about the beds you want to make OP. And if you act anything like you have in this thread at work, you could accomplish a lot more if you learn how to take pride in what you do, but also be able to down shift, and recognize there is more to both life, and being part of a team than acting like an uptight asshole and productivity police. Managing people isn’t easy. And a touch of “slacking” here and there is significantly more beneficial for the team than stomping around like Hitler’s Yes Man.

Or you know, you can ignore all this, and figure it out for yourself 15-20 years from now when no one respects you and complains to ownership about you behind your back. Or you have a heart attack, or you actually rage and “smash a face into a keyboard”… But you’ll be super productive, so all is right in the world right?

Jesus when you have teenagers your head is going to straight explode. [/quote]

cue slow clap gif[/quote]

Indeed.

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
One other thing I thought of just now while I was in the gym, wish I’d mentioned it in my first post:

OP, one of your original ideas was that you’d passive-aggressively shame your co-worker and make him as uncomfortable as possible. Does that sound like a good leader to you? If you were evaluating someone for management potential, is that what you’d want to see?

How about this novel idea: instead of being the office shithead who hopes to fuck with anyone he doesn’t like until they quit, how about you be a decent leader. If you want to be a manager someday, this is what you’ll have to do, so start getting some practice. Ask the guy how he’s settling in, if there’s anything you can help him with, if he needs any programming or technical help. Engage him in a discussion about his current projects and how they’re going. Talk some shop. Maybe he’ll get more comfortable and start producing. Maybe he’ll figure out that this isn’t the place for him. But there’s a hell of a lot better chance of a happy ending for all if you try this approach instead of “I’ll just ask him what’s up on FaceChat every day until he breaks down and cries” - man, aren’t you so ALPHA.[/quote]

Thats great advice…for someone who is trying to be a condescending prick.
“how is everything”
“can I help you”
“how are your projects coming along”

[/quote]

It’s not being a condescending prick. It’s being a good co-worker. This is how it works in offices with happy employees - people help each other out, talk to one another about their projects, share tips and tricks that they’ve learned to make each other’s lives easier. A lot of good comes from those little conversations, and once in awhile it could be a really big breakthrough. Just because you are an impossibly arrogant SOB who would perceive genuinely helpful conversation as someone being a “condescending prick” doesn’t mean everyone else would. Maybe you should talk to your manager who’s such a fucking genius at managing, and ask if he thinks it’s a good idea for employees to talk to each other about their projects and help each other out.[/quote]

I noticed jimmy need to do something for one of his projects and i said “hey i can show you how to do this, i just learned how” and he said “yea sure”. Im goig to see of i can squeeze it in today and show him.

Because it was a specific enough situation and i knew he wpuld like to be able to do what i will show him.

This is a little different than just casaully checking up on him in a vague manner once a day…dont you think?[/quote]

Yes, that’s a very good example of what I’m talking about. I didn’t say you had to babysit him and ask him every single day. But every couple of days, you could take a minute and go grab a cup of coffee with him, or eat lunch at the same time, and offer up a story or two about what you’re working on / what you’ve learned recently / ask a question about his most interesting current project / ask a question about his most difficult current project / etc. See, here are some examples?

“Hey man, just finished something up, before I get started on my next project, do you want to grab a cup of coffee from the break room?”

“Sure, I’d love that, this is killing me”

"So what’s going on? Working on anything interesting?

“Hey, want to eat lunch with me around noon today? Working here can be pretty intense, it’s good to take a break for a few minutes and talk shop.”


“Hey, want to take a couple minutes every Friday morning to talk about our ongoing projects? We might be running into some of the same challenges, maybe a regular idea swap would help us both out.”

I mean, this shit is common sense. You’ve been bragging on here about how socially adept you are for an engineer, and somehow you need the basics of Human Interaction 101 spelled out for you. You keep bragging about your dad and his 4 decades at a Fortune 500 company, as though that’s something you’ve genetically inherited which predisposes you to succeeding in Corporate America, yet you have no idea how to make basic conversation with a co-worker for the common good of your company?

The above stuff has been enormously helpful to me. Most of my major breakthroughs come because I have to figure something out on the fly, but a decent minority come just from talking to others in my field and hearing how they approach problems. It’s one of the reasons why professional meetings, although they’re often a big money-making racket, are so valuable. I might learn something there that cuts my time finishing certain projects in half or better. Within the office, there are fairly few people who can do what I do, but I make it a point to talk regularly to those that do because there’s always a chance one of us has just figured out a new programming trick or analytic approach.

Put that stuff in your time log, too (I do the same thing you mentioned earlier re: keeping a detailed time log of how much time I spend doing certain tasks on each project). It will give you some examples to cite when you’re getting reviewed of how you’ve gone above and beyond your normal duties on projects to help out a co-worker. That’s the sort of shit that screams “management potential” and will get you further up the ladder. Having those concrete examples ready to hand of the time you taught Jimmy to do this, or when you helped Jimmy figure out that, or even something like “I decided that we should meet for 15 minutes every Friday morning to discuss our most difficult current projects” - all of that stuff is great.[/quote]

  1. I liked this post

  2. This guy isn’t an engineer. I read through the thread and he didn’t know who Gauss was. If you’re an engineer and you don’t know who gauss is…well, lets just say you should find another profession. Then again, the doctor who graduated with the lowest GPA is still called “doctor”.[/quote]

Can’t tell if serious

If serious, then I feel sorry for you.

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
One other thing I thought of just now while I was in the gym, wish I’d mentioned it in my first post:

OP, one of your original ideas was that you’d passive-aggressively shame your co-worker and make him as uncomfortable as possible. Does that sound like a good leader to you? If you were evaluating someone for management potential, is that what you’d want to see?

How about this novel idea: instead of being the office shithead who hopes to fuck with anyone he doesn’t like until they quit, how about you be a decent leader. If you want to be a manager someday, this is what you’ll have to do, so start getting some practice. Ask the guy how he’s settling in, if there’s anything you can help him with, if he needs any programming or technical help. Engage him in a discussion about his current projects and how they’re going. Talk some shop. Maybe he’ll get more comfortable and start producing. Maybe he’ll figure out that this isn’t the place for him. But there’s a hell of a lot better chance of a happy ending for all if you try this approach instead of “I’ll just ask him what’s up on FaceChat every day until he breaks down and cries” - man, aren’t you so ALPHA.[/quote]

Thats great advice…for someone who is trying to be a condescending prick.
“how is everything”
“can I help you”
“how are your projects coming along”

[/quote]

It’s not being a condescending prick. It’s being a good co-worker. This is how it works in offices with happy employees - people help each other out, talk to one another about their projects, share tips and tricks that they’ve learned to make each other’s lives easier. A lot of good comes from those little conversations, and once in awhile it could be a really big breakthrough. Just because you are an impossibly arrogant SOB who would perceive genuinely helpful conversation as someone being a “condescending prick” doesn’t mean everyone else would. Maybe you should talk to your manager who’s such a fucking genius at managing, and ask if he thinks it’s a good idea for employees to talk to each other about their projects and help each other out.[/quote]

I noticed jimmy need to do something for one of his projects and i said “hey i can show you how to do this, i just learned how” and he said “yea sure”. Im goig to see of i can squeeze it in today and show him.

Because it was a specific enough situation and i knew he wpuld like to be able to do what i will show him.

This is a little different than just casaully checking up on him in a vague manner once a day…dont you think?[/quote]

Yes, that’s a very good example of what I’m talking about. I didn’t say you had to babysit him and ask him every single day. But every couple of days, you could take a minute and go grab a cup of coffee with him, or eat lunch at the same time, and offer up a story or two about what you’re working on / what you’ve learned recently / ask a question about his most interesting current project / ask a question about his most difficult current project / etc. See, here are some examples?

“Hey man, just finished something up, before I get started on my next project, do you want to grab a cup of coffee from the break room?”

“Sure, I’d love that, this is killing me”

"So what’s going on? Working on anything interesting?

“Hey, want to eat lunch with me around noon today? Working here can be pretty intense, it’s good to take a break for a few minutes and talk shop.”


“Hey, want to take a couple minutes every Friday morning to talk about our ongoing projects? We might be running into some of the same challenges, maybe a regular idea swap would help us both out.”

I mean, this shit is common sense. You’ve been bragging on here about how socially adept you are for an engineer, and somehow you need the basics of Human Interaction 101 spelled out for you. You keep bragging about your dad and his 4 decades at a Fortune 500 company, as though that’s something you’ve genetically inherited which predisposes you to succeeding in Corporate America, yet you have no idea how to make basic conversation with a co-worker for the common good of your company?

The above stuff has been enormously helpful to me. Most of my major breakthroughs come because I have to figure something out on the fly, but a decent minority come just from talking to others in my field and hearing how they approach problems. It’s one of the reasons why professional meetings, although they’re often a big money-making racket, are so valuable. I might learn something there that cuts my time finishing certain projects in half or better. Within the office, there are fairly few people who can do what I do, but I make it a point to talk regularly to those that do because there’s always a chance one of us has just figured out a new programming trick or analytic approach.

Put that stuff in your time log, too (I do the same thing you mentioned earlier re: keeping a detailed time log of how much time I spend doing certain tasks on each project). It will give you some examples to cite when you’re getting reviewed of how you’ve gone above and beyond your normal duties on projects to help out a co-worker. That’s the sort of shit that screams “management potential” and will get you further up the ladder. Having those concrete examples ready to hand of the time you taught Jimmy to do this, or when you helped Jimmy figure out that, or even something like “I decided that we should meet for 15 minutes every Friday morning to discuss our most difficult current projects” - all of that stuff is great.[/quote]

  1. I liked this post

  2. This guy isn’t an engineer. I read through the thread and he didn’t know who Gauss was. If you’re an engineer and you don’t know who gauss is…well, lets just say you should find another profession. Then again, the doctor who graduated with the lowest GPA is still called “doctor”.[/quote]

Can’t tell if serious

If serious, then I feel sorry for you.
[/quote]

Im pretty damn serious it is a big deal. For someone who prides themselves on the quality of their work, and maybe you do very good work (I don’t know Ive never met you), you come off as someone who is naïve or overestimates themselves.

There are three very important things gauss did (among many of his other accomplishments) that I can think of (off the top of my head) which are critical to engineering:

  1. The divergence theorem (converting a surface integral into a volume integral)
  2. The normal distribution
  3. Regression analysis (specifically, the method of least squares)

Most of the electrical applications (such as gauss’s law) can be attributed to his work with the divergence theorem. Least squares and the normal distribution are clearly very useful for failure analysis, calculation of heat transfer due to diffusion, and many other applications which Im assuming you know since you’re such a great engineer.

^Fuckin’ heavy weights going at … Where’s my damn popcorn

[quote]polo77j wrote:
^Fuckin’ heavy weights going at … Where’s my damn popcorn[/quote]

Hater’s gonna hate.

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:
^Fuckin’ heavy weights going at … Where’s my damn popcorn[/quote]

Hater’s gonna hate.
[/quote]

Thanks T-Swizzle … shake it off, man, shake it off.

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:
^Fuckin’ heavy weights going at … Where’s my damn popcorn[/quote]

Hater’s gonna hate.
[/quote]

Thanks T-Swizzle … shake it off, man, shake it off.[/quote]

My soon to be 4 year old is a total Swifty…

I know all the words, lol. It makes her happy and that Style song has a catchy guitar riff… Gotta find the silver lining man. I keep pushing shit like Allman Bros, JT, Slash, etc and she knows the words to Paradise City, but she’s a Swifty through and through.

Edit: my 17 year old is into dubstep though… And then a Golden Oldie will come out of his iPod and I just smile, kid has good taste in there somewhere.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:
^Fuckin’ heavy weights going at … Where’s my damn popcorn[/quote]

Hater’s gonna hate.
[/quote]

Thanks T-Swizzle … shake it off, man, shake it off.[/quote]

My soon to be 4 year old is a total Swifty…

I know all the words, lol. It makes her happy and that Style song has a catchy guitar riff… Gotta find the silver lining man. I keep pushing shit like Allman Bros, JT, Slash, etc and she knows the words to Paradise City, but she’s a Swifty through and through.

Edit: my 17 year old is into dubstep though… And then a Golden Oldie will come out of his iPod and I just smile, kid has good taste in there somewhere. [/quote]

Swizzle writes catchy pop tunes with a decent message - there are worse things your 4 year old can be listening to. Just keep fightin the good fight man; I thought DMB was the shit when I was in high school - can’t stand that whiney ass voice now … Good music tends to win out.

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Im pretty damn serious it is a big deal.
[/quote]

o damn k ya fucken boyscout, what are you like 6 years old?

I still can’t tell if you’re serious.

Epic thread is epic.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Epic thread is epic. [/quote]

Agreed.

I just got back from one of those mystical diner meetings that OP apparently doesn’t think exists, and am having a night cap. So keep in mind I’ve been drinking at this point, lol.

Anyway, you and I, Brick argued on this board before, about some shit. Much of the general, big picture notions of which were touched on in this thread. Seems to me we’ve both sort of come more towards “center” in our initial arguments, and are in relative agreement here.

Fact of the matter is, I’ve thought about the things you’ve said here on this board often over the last couple of years. And while I still stand by my original points, you were certainly a hell of a lot more correct about things than I ever gave you credit for. My perspective didn’t allow me to step back and consider what you were saying in context, or give your notions any credit. At the time at least, because now, I get it, where you were coming from.

I think it was having my youngest. She really flipped a switch in my mind. The things I did and do for myself now, they are just for me, and it’s so much better this way, for me. I truly no longer give a fuck about what other people think, outside of the small circle of people I keep close. And honestly, and this is where I think about what you’ve said in the past comes in, there is more to life than just being “hardcore” or “better than you were yesterday”. I’m still very much a “be better than you were yesterday” type of person, but now, I enjoy the things in life that aren’t just “self improvement”.

I think it’s just I never understood the two ideas, the two perspectives, your’s and mine, weren’t mutually exclusive. I didn’t get that you could be an “over achiever” and not be an asshole about it at the same time, and in fact the down time, the “slacking”, actually helps you to achieve if you manage it appropriately. Shit the only reason I can still work the 80+ hour weeks six months out of every year, and miss out on that much of my kid’s growing up as I do, is because of how much I can enjoy the down time, and the “slacking”, particularly when it’s with them. (Well that and the lifestyle I provide my family by doing it, that I help people live their dreams, and the fact the cyclical nature of the pressure really fits my personality.)

I’m rambling, but end of the day… I wish I took the time to look at what you were saying before differently, and responded differently than I did. I’d be a fuck ton further along than I am now.

I remember my first review where my billable hours went down from 2400-2600 hours a year down to 2080… I was scared shitless. I was there doing what needed to be done when it was needed, but once I finished my projects I took my time off. I have a long commute so work 7 hour days outside the busy seasons, and if I’m in the office on a Friday, it’s a rare sight. Well, I went in thinking I was about to get my balls busted for “slacking”. Turns out I was complimented. My hours went down, my performance was not only consistent but improved, and my bonus went up as a result, lmao. Learning how to enjoy, manage and utilize distractions was the most lucrative thing I’ve ever done…

You know, “time and a place” and knowing when to “turn it off and on” and all that…

*** For the mathematically challenged:

It works out to about 6 weeks worth of “comp time” where I’m not in the office, but still bill the full 2080 a year. (40 hours a week x 52 weeks = 2080 hours a year).

Yes, I take upwards of 6 weeks worth of time off a year, and still work enough to bill a full year worth of hours. But you know, I couldn’t possibly know what it’s like to be Super Hardcore Worker Engineer Man.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Epic thread is epic. [/quote]

Agreed.

I just got back from one of those mystical diner meetings that OP apparently doesn’t think exists, and am having a night cap. So keep in mind I’ve been drinking at this point, lol.

Anyway, you and I, Brick argued on this board before, about some shit. Much of the general, big picture notions of which were touched on in this thread. Seems to me we’ve both sort of come more towards “center” in our initial arguments, and are in relative agreement here.

Fact of the matter is, I’ve thought about the things you’ve said here on this board often over the last couple of years. And while I still stand by my original points, you were certainly a hell of a lot more correct about things than I ever gave you credit for. My perspective didn’t allow me to step back and consider what you were saying in context, or give your notions any credit. At the time at least, because now, I get it, where you were coming from.

I think it was having my youngest. She really flipped a switch in my mind. The things I did and do for myself now, they are just for me, and it’s so much better this way, for me. I truly no longer give a fuck about what other people think, outside of the small circle of people I keep close. And honestly, and this is where I think about what you’ve said in the past comes in, there is more to life than just being “hardcore” or “better than you were yesterday”. I’m still very much a “be better than you were yesterday” type of person, but now, I enjoy the things in life that aren’t just “self improvement”.

I think it’s just I never understood the two ideas, the two perspectives, your’s and mine, weren’t mutually exclusive. I didn’t get that you could be an “over achiever” and not be an asshole about it at the same time, and in fact the down time, the “slacking”, actually helps you to achieve if you manage it appropriately. Shit the only reason I can still work the 80+ hour weeks six months out of every year, and miss out on that much of my kid’s growing up as I do, is because of how much I can enjoy the down time, and the “slacking”, particularly when it’s with them. (Well that and the lifestyle I provide my family by doing it, that I help people live their dreams, and the fact the cyclical nature of the pressure really fits my personality.)

I’m rambling, but end of the day… I wish I took the time to look at what you were saying before differently, and responded differently than I did. I’d be a fuck ton further along than I am now.

I remember my first review where my billable hours went down from 2400-2600 hours a year down to 2080… I was scared shitless. I was there doing what needed to be done when it was needed, but once I finished my projects I took my time off. I have a long commute so work 7 hour days outside the busy seasons, and if I’m in the office on a Friday, it’s a rare sight. Well, I went in thinking I was about to get my balls busted for “slacking”. Turns out I was complimented. My hours went down, my performance was not only consistent but improved, and my bonus went up as a result, lmao. Learning how to enjoy, manage and utilize distractions was the most lucrative thing I’ve ever done…

You know, “time and a place” and knowing when to “turn it off and on” and all that… [/quote]

This warmed my heart. I like what you’re saying about quality of life improving performance - and I remember that discussion and agreed with Brick - but more I appreciate the time and effort taken to say “you were right and I couldn’t see it then.” If everyone did that, what a nicer world it would be.

On a side note, I believe that discussion was the first during which I experienced confusion as to Brick’s former identity. I remember his woman hatin’ phase, and how intense - almost to the point of irrationality - he was during it, and all of a sudden here was this really thoughtful, chill guy. Now when I see his avatar I settle in for what I know will be a good read. Same with yours.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Epic thread is epic. [/quote]

Agreed.

I just got back from one of those mystical diner meetings that OP apparently doesn’t think exists, and am having a night cap. So keep in mind I’ve been drinking at this point, lol.

Anyway, you and I, Brick argued on this board before, about some shit. Much of the general, big picture notions of which were touched on in this thread. Seems to me we’ve both sort of come more towards “center” in our initial arguments, and are in relative agreement here.

Fact of the matter is, I’ve thought about the things you’ve said here on this board often over the last couple of years. And while I still stand by my original points, you were certainly a hell of a lot more correct about things than I ever gave you credit for. My perspective didn’t allow me to step back and consider what you were saying in context, or give your notions any credit. At the time at least, because now, I get it, where you were coming from.

I think it was having my youngest. She really flipped a switch in my mind. The things I did and do for myself now, they are just for me, and it’s so much better this way, for me. I truly no longer give a fuck about what other people think, outside of the small circle of people I keep close. And honestly, and this is where I think about what you’ve said in the past comes in, there is more to life than just being “hardcore” or “better than you were yesterday”. I’m still very much a “be better than you were yesterday” type of person, but now, I enjoy the things in life that aren’t just “self improvement”.

I think it’s just I never understood the two ideas, the two perspectives, your’s and mine, weren’t mutually exclusive. I didn’t get that you could be an “over achiever” and not be an asshole about it at the same time, and in fact the down time, the “slacking”, actually helps you to achieve if you manage it appropriately. Shit the only reason I can still work the 80+ hour weeks six months out of every year, and miss out on that much of my kid’s growing up as I do, is because of how much I can enjoy the down time, and the “slacking”, particularly when it’s with them. (Well that and the lifestyle I provide my family by doing it, that I help people live their dreams, and the fact the cyclical nature of the pressure really fits my personality.)

I’m rambling, but end of the day… I wish I took the time to look at what you were saying before differently, and responded differently than I did. I’d be a fuck ton further along than I am now.

I remember my first review where my billable hours went down from 2400-2600 hours a year down to 2080… I was scared shitless. I was there doing what needed to be done when it was needed, but once I finished my projects I took my time off. I have a long commute so work 7 hour days outside the busy seasons, and if I’m in the office on a Friday, it’s a rare sight. Well, I went in thinking I was about to get my balls busted for “slacking”. Turns out I was complimented. My hours went down, my performance was not only consistent but improved, and my bonus went up as a result, lmao. Learning how to enjoy, manage and utilize distractions was the most lucrative thing I’ve ever done…

You know, “time and a place” and knowing when to “turn it off and on” and all that… [/quote]

Thanks a lot for this post! I really enjoyed it. It was very thoughtful. I will try to be back on later to post a bit in return.

Once upon a time…

A couple things happened over the last two days:

The most notorious slacker at our company, well known to everyone, was asked by the president if he had completed his work for a project. He responded “well, i got through about half of it, but…” Then our president stormed off…sucks to be a slacker!

This same morning my gf was telling me how a slacker at job is now being abandoned by their coworkers, and will no longer be receivig help from them cause “he is always on his phone or FB etc.” and they have given up on him.

Then yesterday as i was BSing with jimmy, he was adamently telling me how much he loved vacation and time off, hey everyones different. Some of us just don’t have a passion for our day to day work, some of us weren’t dreaming of this work back when we were 6 years old…

Then, during my weekly meeting with my boss (where i was receiving great advice on how to approach projects etc.) he brought up how it’s different meeting with me, my projects all move along at a nice pace and in his words “you’re becoming much more efficient, you’re getting better and it’s because of your effort” so i thanked him and told him it was because of his advice and help that he provides me with.

After that it was pretty much the end of the day, but jimmy agreed to stick around while i showed him how to use this machine that may come in handy for him on his projects. I let him push al the buttons etc so he would actually learn how to do it instead of just letting him watch me do it. All the while we were completing one of my projects during this learning experience.

The end.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Same with yours.[/quote]

While were all in a “let’s hug it out” mood, and I’m hung over at my desk right now, so being productive is the last thing that is going to happen…

I’ve recently come into a new found respect for your profession, and those of you that do it.

It essentially all started when I realized I have zero empathy for junkies, or any addict that seemingly “destroys their own life with their shitty choices”. So I’m not talking about a functional drunk, or someone who parties and is in control of their life, bit actual addicts. I grew up in an area where the opportunities are fewer and further between than a lot of other places. It wasn’t the worst place in the world, but it’s not conducive to great success either. So a lot fo the kids I grew up with that stayed there ended up junkies. And a fair number of them like to post on facebook about it, digging the attention whoring and pity parties.

So I asked some people if I was an asshole for not having any empathy for these people. The resultant conversation got me reading about Shrinks and the work you do. (Shrink is a term of endearment from me, that encompasses both therapists and doctors, etc.) I used to think yours was a profession of voodoo, nonsense and other assorted hippy feel good drivel. “No one ever gets cured when they go there, it’s all bullshit.” “The notion of repressed memories is such bullshit, these people are just manipulating their clients” so on and so forth…

The realization, epiphany if you will, came when I truly understood the phrase “a broken crayon still colors”. Because no matter how hard you try, you’ll never get that crayon back together, but you (people in your profession) can certainly help these crayons color inside the lines a little better than they did yesterday.

So essentially, you sit there everyday and talk about some of the most fucked up shit I’ve ever read about in my life. (I mean, reading about Sex Addiction and it’s different levels… That is some creepy ass shit, and I’ve never felt more normal in my life, than to read about what they go through.) You bring your “A Game” everyday to dive straight into the depraved and there is no way you could do what you do without empathy. Which means working with open minded adults has to be hard enough, let alone a hard headed Teen that truly needs your help, that sees you as the enemy and makes you work 300x harder just to get them to stop lying, let alone do the work they need to in order to get better.

So in short, I’d never, ever want to even attempt to do what you do. And much like urologists, podiatrists, dermatologists and a plethora of other careers, like the garbage collector I mentioned a couple pages back; I think you guys deserve more money, and I’m pretty thankful people out there are willing to, and enjoy those jobs.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I think it was having my youngest. She really flipped a switch in my mind. The things I did and do for myself now, they are just for me, and it’s so much better this way, for me. I truly no longer give a fuck about what other people think, outside of the small circle of people I keep close. And honestly, and this is where I think about what you’ve said in the past comes in, there is more to life than just being “hardcore” or “better than you were yesterday”. I’m still very much a “be better than you were yesterday” type of person, but now, I enjoy the things in life that aren’t just “self improvement”.

I think it’s just I never understood the two ideas, the two perspectives, your’s and mine, weren’t mutually exclusive. I didn’t get that you could be an “over achiever” and not be an asshole about it at the same time, and in fact the down time, the “slacking”, actually helps you to achieve if you manage it appropriately. Shit the only reason I can still work the 80+ hour weeks six months out of every year, and miss out on that much of my kid’s growing up as I do, is because of how much I can enjoy the down time, and the “slacking”, particularly when it’s with them. (Well that and the lifestyle I provide my family by doing it, that I help people live their dreams, and the fact the cyclical nature of the pressure really fits my personality.)
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I feel extremely lucky that my dad provided a fantastic example in this regard. I don’t know exactly how, when, or why he figured it out, but by the time I was old enough to notice, he had it figured out. He made a good living and helped our family live comfortably, allowed my mom to be stay-at-home during our formative years, and worked hard enough to “make partner” at the firm without forgetting to be a dad, too. He never missed a football game, or a wrestling match, he was there on Saturdays in the offseason to drive my brother & me 45 minutes to some middle-of-nowhere town to sit in a cramped gym all day and wrestle two matches each. I assume somewhere in a place where he’d never let me or my brother see, he was absolutely working his ass off.

He showed me that it was possible to have that ON/OFF switch. Showed me that having a “successful career” and “leisure time” weren’t mutually exclusive. Showed me that you could work hard and have a good career, but still take some time to get out of the office and enjoy life, too. We were on vacation once a couple years ago, and he was chatting to some folks that just happened to be staying at the same resort…the woman was a paralegal and asked how he felt about his career as an attorney and if he would do anything differently, and he said something like “Not really. Maybe I could have worked twice as much and had a bigger house or expensive car, but I got to see my kids grow up. I don’t really think about it all that much.”

I don’t work in a “billable hours” setting, but I know that when I buckle down and get cracking, I get more done in a couple of focused hours than most of my colleagues get done in a full day anyway; so as long as my “clients” (the physicians) are happy and their work is getting done, everyone wins. For me, the “slacking” - going out for an occasional cup of coffee in the middle of the day, leaving the office on time instead of staying late, checking Facebook for 5 minutes every so often - is not a problem because it helps me do my work better, and it keeps me happier instead of turning me into the office shithead (which I almost definitely would turn into if I literally never took those little breaks).

To be fair, according to carbidius’ most recent post, that DOES seem to be a problem for the Jimmy in question - if he’s actually not getting his work done, fine, that’s actually a problem. That’s a key distinction. Productive people can afford to be the ones who take a coffee break and enjoy their vacation time.

Well that deescalated quickly.

Beans and Brick, you both have changed immensely in a positive direction from when you started here.

Now, back to work!

What is this a therapy session. I wanna see some people get mad over internet posts. Allow me to stir the pot a little with a reply to the OPs comment:

A boyscout? The only reason you are acting like a teenage girl is because you know that you don’t know jack shit about engineering. Take the curl of some vector fields and then come talk to me, scrub.

Even accountants think engineers are nerd. That’s pretty sad…