Skull Crushers... Elbows In or Out?

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]matsm21 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
schultzie wrote:
kickbacks?

do you have a vagina ?

Start using more than 60lbs for them and your vagina magically becomes a rock hard erect penis. This may cause problems with management what with all of the equipment being knocked over and little old ladies using it as to hang their 2.5lbs plates on, but at least you don’t get cramps once a month!

LOL! If you don’t use the baby end of the DB rack they’ll work just fine[/quote]

This. Kickbacks are a perfectly good and safe tricep isolation exercise.

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[quote]kaoticz wrote:
what did you replace skull crushers with for triceps just wondering, i dont have access to dips :frowning: Just dumbells/barbells
Thanks[/quote]

I replaced mine with standing overhead tricep extensions (DB) which seems damn near the same exercise yet it doesn’t hurt even a little bit…I can also use more weight which is a win/win

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Although there are certain lifters that should avoid certain movements; there are no movements that all lifters should avoid.

Skull Crushers are certainly not for everyone.

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I’ve attempted this one three times. Twice with an EZ bar, once with dumbbells.

The Ez Bar fucked with my elbows within two reps both times, so I dropped it.

With dumbbells there was no pain, however the exercise is largely ineffective in comparison to my other tricep exercises so I still avoid it.

Find what works for you. If you’re a freak and don’t experience pain doing these, go for it. If you find another exercise rapes your tris better, go for those. But if you do kickbacks…

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[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
I think making the movement the most naturally possible is the best option.

This comes to mind when I think of past and actual training partners saying ‘elbows in elbows in, come on, it’ll work better…’ and all that shit. Then I recall and their triceps weren’t any big, they barely had any development.

Tricep has to be focused on load rather than ‘fitness magazine form’, or at least IMO. You see many guys in the gym taking the old advice of elbows in who barely go up to more than 25lb a side.[/quote]

Good point about making a movement feel more “natural”.
I’ve just come back from training…

Somebody came over to me in the gym today.

I was doing EZ Extensions (lying on the bench, bar comes down behind my head… A bit like a pjr but with an EZ bar) as an assistance exercise after Close-Grips ( one of my main moves right now on Wendler 5/3/1)…

My elbows were pointing out to a great extent… I also had more weight on that EZ bar than most there use for benching. Go figure. (and they bench 7 days a week it seems)

So that jackass stands next to me, puts his hands onto the outsides of my elbows (I thought he was trying to be nice and give me a spot or something), and then just forcefully pushes them in while I’m in mid-rep.

OW FUCK!
That was pain I don’t want to feel again, right above the elbows at the tricep tendon.

He even had the nerve to tell me (ignoring the rather comical noises of pain and suffering I made lol) that if I don’t keep my elbows in all the time and my upper arms perpendicular to the floor, my shoulders would do all the work.

Like 90 percent of people out there mr. smartass apparently doesn’t know that the long head of the triceps connects to the shoulder and does way more than just straighten the arm at the elbow…

I’m now paranoid that someone will come over to me while I’m busy squatting just to push my knees in or something lol (preferably while I’m trying to get out of the hole).

I didn’t even shout at him, no idea why. Should have dumped the plates on his feet or something… But there you go, we Germans are actually not half as warlike as many think lol

My elbows are pointing out because that way the exercise (in combination with bringing the bar down behind my head and making it a semi-tricep-pullover rather than a skullcrusher) doesn’t hurt them… (at least in my case and with a good warm-up…)

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[quote]Rape Weight wrote:
I’ve attempted this one three times. Twice with an EZ bar, once with dumbbells.

The Ez Bar fucked with my elbows within two reps both times, so I dropped it.

With dumbbells there was no pain, however the exercise is largely ineffective in comparison to my other tricep exercises so I still avoid it.

Find what works for you. If you’re a freak and don’t experience pain doing these, go for it. If you find another exercise rapes your tris better, go for those. But if you do kickbacks…[/quote]

Why are kickbacks so bad? TRICEPS KICKBACK / PINOC'S TRAINING - YouTube

If they work and isolate your triceps, what does it matter what weight you use, so long as it is tearing down the muscle?

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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
(good info)

[/quote]

i prolly would have freaked out on the guy. That being said, I have tried elbows out and never liked it, i can go heavier and it feels better to go elbows in, and i do more than most people in my gym, going 35,40,then plates on the bar for sets of 8, so it’s not like i’m using a really low weight.

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[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

I agree, no doubt about that. I guess I just assume that people don’t take a single piece of advice as the be all end all. I do stand behind my opinion that skull crushers do not need to be included for optimal tri development. [/quote]

Except that around here, many dipshits do just that. Lol…

And yea, I agree that they definitely are not needed - there are many triceps exercises that are just as effective, and better. For many years I did regular press-downs, but training at home and having no kind of pulley setup, it’s all free-weight exercises for me these days. But absolutely - many exercises and approaches will work just as well, and maybe better.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

Well you are one of the lucky ones that gets good pec stimulation from flat bb press. I am shoulder dominant. I wouldn’t even do BB press if my school gym had big enough DB’s. I also don’t get any shoulder pain when benching with my elbows around 45 degrees or a bit more. I think you’d have to agree that, even though some may receive adequate pec stimulation with tucked elbows, flaring elbows will place more stress on the pec muscles compared to the shoulders and tris. Of course a balance between pec recruitment and the ability to add weight to the bar has to be considered when chosing the best form.
[/quote]

Yep - totally agree here too - I can feel the difference and I have to really, really concentrate doing them tucked in so I feel the pecs firing properly. But, for a guy with some shoulder issues, it works much better that way for me these days, and hasn’t hurt my chest development.

Again, I did do them with elbows flared for many, many years. And no, I don’t think that’s what caused my shoulder problems (I always felt it was upright rows that gave me issues back in the day, haven’t done them since I was a newb)It’s just that now, it cuts my pain down significantly benching tucked in…

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[quote]Hazza1989 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
I’ve attempted this one three times. Twice with an EZ bar, once with dumbbells.

The Ez Bar fucked with my elbows within two reps both times, so I dropped it.

With dumbbells there was no pain, however the exercise is largely ineffective in comparison to my other tricep exercises so I still avoid it.

Find what works for you. If you’re a freak and don’t experience pain doing these, go for it. If you find another exercise rapes your tris better, go for those. But if you do kickbacks…

Why are kickbacks so bad? TRICEPS KICKBACK / PINOC'S TRAINING - YouTube

If they work and isolate your triceps, what does it matter what weight you use, so long as it is tearing down the muscle?[/quote]

To Hazza1989:
Tearing down the muscle? My, my. What a nice analogy for muscle building /sarcasm

Skull crushers were the things I did between 1995 and 1998. It is 2009 and I still have lateral epicondylitis in my right arm and both lateral and medial epicondylitis in my left one. I’ve pretty much given up in having that shit healed 100%, and whenever I do things like chin ups, pull ups or cable tricep extensions, I need to tightly wrap both elbows with ace bands.

Tate presses work much better for me without the pain.

But then again, there are people who do skull crushers for life w/o ever getting into problems. It is an individual thing.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

This is the bodybuilding forum. Your elbows shouldn’t be tucked in if you want to build your chest when bench pressing.[/quote]

I dunno dude, but there are good reasons to do a bench press with elbows tucked in within a bodybuilding context. Maybe you have shoulder problems, but still want to bench press. Maybe you want to shift the pressing effort to the triceps (specially with close grip pressing.)

Bench pressing bbuilding style or plifter style, they have their uses which are not mutually exclusive. It ain’t black and white dude.

– edit –

^^^ what skynett dude said.

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[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
hit the gym wrote:
I know for bench press elbows should be tucked in but what about skull crushers? Elbows in or flared out?

I’m hearing a clicking noise in my left elbow at bottom of movement, not really painful though.

This is the bodybuilding forum. Your elbows shouldn’t be tucked in if you want to build your chest when bench pressing.

Drop the skull crushers. Theyre not worth the pain. Plenty of other exercises can provide results without the risk to elbow/forearm tendons. [/quote]

I refused for the longest time to give up on em, but when the pain in my elbow simply grew to the point that I know have a good and a bad one, I simply dropped them. Its not that my tris were getting as big as Levrone’s by doing them. Try the close grip bench. So far so good on my camp.

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Slightly off subject, but I did JM presses yesterday with only 75 pounds to get the form right and my elbows are killing me today. No bueno.

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Elbows in or out… good question.

Keeping them in places the elbow in a fairly unnatural position - not good. Letting them flare way out basically turns the movement into a close-grip press. That’s fine, but that’s not what skull crushers are for.

Keep your elbows “naturally tucked in.” What I mean is to avoid letting them really flare, but not so tucked in that it feels unnatural. FYI - this will put your elbows (humerus) about 30 degrees away from your sides.

Best,

Dr Clay

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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
long post

[/quote]

Is there any lasting pain from that? Kinda silly someone would do that, I agree. Watch out on those squats.

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[quote]DaveyD wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
long post

Is there any lasting pain from that? Kinda silly someone would do that, I agree. Watch out on those squats.[/quote]

My right elbow is still feeling odd (well, the tri-tendon is). So I’m not going to do any pressing or extending under weight for a week or so… Oh well.
I skipped too many deload weeks on 5/3/1 as it is, might as well have one now and just do some lighter leg work or so.

Edit: I should have mentioned: I keep my elbows pointing out probably also because I use the same grip-width on the EZ bar that I’d use for EZ curls.
With a narrower grip, the elbows wouldn’t point out as much, of course. (but the narrow grip bothers my shoulders even with scapulae in bench position)