Size In Releation To Strength

Hi all, been lurking for a good few years, first post.

Here’s the deal:

I’ve noticed that I am a fair bit stronger (up to 40% in some lifts) than many of my fellow gym mates. We are all pretty much the same height, and have been training for similar periods of time (3+ years), using slightly different, but largely the same, workout routines.

We are all 20 year old white males. I would like to think we have all been training long enough to have fully outgrown “newbie” gains.

My question is; why is it that some of my friends are more muscular than me, but not as strong? I consistantly lift heavier, but some of them are larger than me, some smaller. This could be seen as either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your goals - for me, it is a bad thing, as I am lifting primarily for aesthetic reasons, however I do not want to look like a mens health reader, I want to look strong, and as far as other comments go, I am making good progress.

I’ll add in now that none of us are using, or have used steroids, not any other illegal/semi illegal substances. Just out of curiosity which way would this swing the strength/size ratio?

The science part of me tells me these differences could be down to muscle makeup, ie, slow/fast twitch fibre ratio’s, or genetics, however I want to know what exactly may cause this. I also note that I am the heaviest, at about 210 pounds. Out weights fluctuate by around 30 pounds. Am I just “denser”? for want of a more scientific word. And how can I use my extra strength to my advantage and gain muscle size? We have all cycled routines incorporating 5, 8, and 12 rep sets.

I hope I have posted enough reletive information.

Many thanks for any help.

Insertion points, muscle make-up, etc, etc.

You can’t out train genetics.

Best you can do is just add more muscle to compensate.

Or try to create the illusion of size.

Example: Add shoulder size and lat width to create the illusion that you’ve got a massive V taper.

Mass in the right places works wonders for visuals.

If you’re the heaviest and lift the most but look the least muscular, you probably have the most body fat.

[quote]EatSleepLift wrote:
If you’re the heaviest and lift the most but look the least muscular, you probably have the most body fat. [/quote]

True, I probably do have the most body fat. But if some of the people who I train with have larger arms than me, and have lower body fat, surely that corresponds to more muscle mass?

Admittidly I do not look as muscular because of my higher body fat, but surely there must be a scientific reason as to why I am stronger, but less well muscled?

Do none of you guys/girls notice similar circumstances in your training?

compete against the guy in the mirror and in your training log. That is the only competition that matters

it could just be you are stronger because you are the heaviest. other things could be diet or training. genetics is the most probable since everyone responds differently to different types of training.
you just need to find out what works best for you. if it is larger arms you are after
try focusing on them for a month or two.

well, a big part of strength is CNS related, not muscle strength related. I have known a lot weightlifters that were much stronger then guys in higher wieght classes.

Strength is not directly related to mushcle strength. You can become very strong without really going through a lot of muscle hypertrophy and thus not develop really big muscles; vice versa, you can be a big bodybuilder without ever really getting strong by simple working the muscle to hypertrophy without ever really lifting heavy.

What sort of lifting are you doing? What lifts are you talking about being weaker in? What types of sets and reps?

Thanks for the replies so far.

As far as my training goes, I am currently using a 6 day split routine. I Alternate between full body and a split routine, changing every 3 months or so. The full body routine is 3 days a week.

My current routine looks like this:

All 3 sets of 8 reps

Mon/Thurs
Chest/Tri’s

Flat bench press or dumbell bench press
Incline bench press
Decline bench press
Dumbell flyes
Weighted dips
Tricep kickbacks
skull crushers

Tues/Fri
Back/Bi’s
Deadlift
Sometimes Hyperextension
Lat pull down
Close Grip pulldown
Dumbell rows
Preacher curls
Barbell curls
Standing dumbell curls

Wed/Sat
Legs/Shoulders/Traps
Front squat
Back Squat
Single legged Squat
Hamstring curls
Calf raises
Military press
Dumbell shoulder press
Lat raises/front raises

Thats it, and I aim to get 3500 - 4000 cals a day. Usual dietry split.

Leverages also play a big factor in strength. People with long arms are good at deadlift, but bad at bench. etc. Don’t know though if this applies to your situation.

[quote]j_mo wrote:
You can become very strong without really going through a lot of muscle hypertrophy and thus not develop really big muscles; vice versa, you can be a big bodybuilder without ever really getting strong by simple working the muscle to hypertrophy without ever really lifting heavy.[/quote]

Bullshit, being big and being strong are directly connected.

You can only be so strong when you’re a twig, and you can be only so big when you’re weak.

While the CNS does play a big role in how much weight you can move your need some muscle too.

[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
Bullshit, being big and being strong are directly connected.

You can only be so strong when you’re a twig, and you can be only so big when you’re weak.

While the CNS does play a big role in how much weight you can move your need some muscle too.
[/quote]

Ok, well here is Venceslas Dabaya doing 5 reps of front squats at 200kg (441 lbs) and he only weighs about 69kg (152 lbs).

www . youtube . com / watch?v=XkK9-mnDAy4

He did a 146kg snatch and 186kg C&J at the '06 World Championships. That is more then most people at any size. I know a lot of 200+ lb lifters (myself included) who are not nearly that strong… please explain to me how is can do this given that he cannot be strong without being big?

How many 180 lb weightlifters and olympic lifters are way stronger then 220 lb bodybuilders? Bodybuilders clearly have bigger muscles; how can that be?

DIET!!!
Size is coorelated with strength. The stronger you are and the more you are able to life, the more neurons fire and fibers are being used. If you all have the same regimen (including cardio) and taking the same supplements it is most likly your diet. Last possibility is that it would be genetics. To say how many calories you are taking in is great but whats the split? Are you eating on a low GI? What type of cardio are you using if any? These are all questions you have to ask. Not everyones body is the same so you might not respond to the same foods as them. You have to learn the nutrient split that works best for you. Me personally i am more carb sensitive than most people so I eat more fat and protein in my diet to make up for it.

[quote]caneman wrote:
Leverages also play a big factor in strength. People with long arms are good at deadlift, but bad at bench. etc. Don’t know though if this applies to your situation.[/quote]

Good point, I suppose my limbs are slightly shorter than the people i train with. My arms are simliar in length, but my legs are shorter, and more powerful, it helps having 10+ years of reletivly high level field hockey (england) under my belt too i guess. This appears to be the reason my squats and deads are higher.

Should have though of that one myself really - the old WD=FxD equation…

Are you much taller than everyone else you train with?

We are all probably between 5’10’’ (me) and 6’0’', so not a massive variation in size.

My diet: on an ideal day, of course i have the occasional slip up - its difficult being a student.

I will try to post as rounded view as i can, of course my diet changes from day to day, but look something like this.

Breakfast:
large bowl of porridge or 6 weetabix
half pint SS milk (2% in the usa?)
protein shake (~30g protein)
250ml smoothie

Later on:
Chicken sandwitch on wholemeal bread

Lunch:
2 rounds lean meat sandwitches
250ml smoothie

Pre workout:
Mass Gainer shake (64g protein, 64g carbs, 10g fat ~ 600 cals)

Post workout:
Mass gainer shake

Within 1.5 hours of workout:
Large meal comprising 250g chicken breast, a good three handfulls of veg, including brocolli, carrots, cauliflour, peas
250ml smoothie

Later on: usually a bacon sandwitch (4 slices wholemeal bread, 10 rashers bacon)

Before bed: whey shake, high in caesin.

Surely this is enough to bulk on?

My body is fairly good in the sense i can throw a lot of “bad” calories at it, ie, bacon sandwitch, and not come off any worse in the short run. My body fat, although higher now, takes a while to increase, and can decrease quite rapidly. Lucky i guess…

My guess is that you have a higher proportion of fast twitch fibres. If this is so, you could benefit from switching to a low rep, high weight, high set regime. Waterbury’s 10x3 comes to mind.

Just need to convince your buddies it might be time for a change!

How many years have you been training, It may be time to try something like this

first 2 weeks
6x3
second 2 weeks
5x3
third 2 weeks
4x3

Constantly move the weight up each time(note this is once a week). I do this with my bench and have gotten great results best of luck to you.

Many thanks to everyone for the replies. I am going to have a look at the Waterbury article mentioned and see if that can help me gain some mas. I think its time to start using a more advanced training routine.

Again, thanks for the replies - great knowledge on here.