I think you insert your own experiences too much into these discussions. You state these things almost as facts, when the opposite often happens.
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It’s cool. I have done a lot of work around this. I love myself. It’s his problem, not mine. I know his history - my grandfather was in WWII on the Enterprise, gone for eight years. My dad has done the best he can.
I’m okay with it.
I don’t share for sympathy, though I appreciate it, I share to help.
Well, that’s just like your opinion man (channeling the Dude).
You could be correct. I think it is up to you to make that decision and to govern yourself accordingly.
Ah man, I wish this was always true. My sister is caught up in all this “my parents are toxic stuff” and it’s breaking my mums heart. She has moved away with her fella and refuses to talk to any of her family. My mum isn’t perfect, she is extremely emotionally immature with some stuff… but it all comes from love. She lives entirely for her children.
Worst thing about it is just before Christmas my sister had a baby, I managed to get talking to her from an “understanding” middle ground and she allowed us to meet it once, but then she disappeared again - no contact. All my mothers ever wanted is a Grandchild, she cries herself to sleep over her daughter not wanting to have anything to do with her as well as not having any relationship with the Grandaughter.
But wait, there’s more. My Dad has the double whammy of Dementia and Parkinsons. He is literally declining in front of us and my Mum is the main caregiver (of course I help out as much as I can!).
It’s like my sister is brainwashed or something but there is just no talking to her. It’s incredibly difficult to see a resolution. At the last meet it was so awkward but my Mum still drew happy tears for the baby. As my sister went to leave, my Mum asked for a hug, sister said no. As I walked her, her boyfriend and the baby to the car she went on about not having her boundaries respected. And off she went…
I often find that moms and daughters clash the hardest. Theory is that both are competing for the same man’s attention (dad/husband).
Same way a lot of dads and sons get into it, but for different reasons.
I’d give your comment a ‘like’ but there’s not much to like about it other than your candor.
Maybe to your sister, your mom is toxic.
It might come from love, but it might still be toxic.
At least for your sister.
I had two brothers, lost one in 2001, found him dead on his kitchen floor. He was my middle brother, eighteen months older than I, Stanford grad, two degrees, ER doctor, my best friend.
He hated our dad and our oldest brother, there were three of us.
But he loved them as well, looked out for them, treated them well.
I can do that with my dad, but not with my surviving brother. He is too toxic for me.
My father is 87, end stage heart failure, diabetic, edema, COPD, just a mess. My mom is 84 with Parkinsons, takes care of my dad.
My mom is sick that I hate my brother. I am kind of sick about it too, but it is not going to change.
You just can’t walk in their shoes, you don’t know the hatred, the white hot anger. Just let her be her and let it go.
I am going to go admittedly overtly aggressive rather than passive aggressive.
I would suggest that you have very little experience with respect to moms and daughters clashing. When you say, “I often find” what are you basing that on? I think you work in construction?
I am not saying you don’t have the experience, I am just curious where that experience comes from?
I think you might have experience here as a son, but not as a father. I am pretty sure you are a headstrong dude and your dad might have bowed up on you.
Otherwise, I suspect you are a Millenial which is different than a Boomer, or a Jones. None are better, we are all a part of the Tao, lol.
Why go aggressive at all? I was stating an opinion based on my own observations.
tbh I wish he had. he was too soft on me, which was an overcorrection to the way his alcoholic, wife-beating dad treated him.
I base my thinking on my own observations. I’m the millennial child to an overly passive boomer father, with an overbearing and manipulative boomer mother. Hard to apply my personal experience with others; I don’t want to be like my dad and I don’t particularly like my mom. Neither abused me in any way.
So I base my opinions on the observations of what I believe to be the norm in society.
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I have actually said similar things, but as time goes on I just can’t get onboard with this. Everyone has the freedom to live the life as they see fit - I can 100% get behind that. I have tried to remain the middle man but watching her destroy my parents wellbeing I just can’t do it anymore.
What is different about this though is I believe it is indoctrination, a growing epidemic. People getting their therapy from social media, 5 minutes on TikTok and people go down a rabbit hole that they can’t get out of that gets stronger and stronger. I know you can’t just give someones head a wobble to let them see how selfish they are being… people are always gonna do what they’re gonna do. All we can control is ourselves.
My parents did everything they possibly could for her throughout her entire life but that can’t even be said because “well duh, it’s a parents job”. And then modern TikTok therapy will say that’s toxic. It’s absolutely bonkers and the worlds gone mad.
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I think any challenge or adverse opinion is framed as aggressive, probably just me. I am not fan of conflict these days. In the past, it was throw down. I am older now, and I think better.
I get it. My dad hit me in the face in front of my friends when I was fourteen, my mom beat me with a belt. I wish I could trade places with you.
Awesome. I may have overcompensated by talking to my kids and empowering them rather than beating them.
We cool!
Definitely not just you. The majority of college campuses are like this, and anyone who disagrees with them is a violent fascist.
I bet. Theres a good healthy middle ground between beating your kids senseless and being too soft on them. I think this is what’s best aimed for.
Is it just me, or does your whole response reek of bad faith?
I doubt my situation is the same. I do understand.
I went no contact with my brother and my parents support me. I’m 60, my brother is 63, so a lot of water under the bridge, different situation.
Valid, everybody is a narcissist, BPD, insecure attachment based on me watching TikTok, I get it.
For me, I’ve done the work so I don’t care what the toxic person’s issues are, they are just toxic for me and I am out.
Just an example. I am a sensitive cat, that is my jam. I did not choose to be, but I am. My mom did the best she could. But we were poor, first world poor. Four gallons of milk in the fridge, labeled Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. When it was gone, it was gone.
My oldest brother would chug the gallon from the gallon in front of my brother and I just to bow up on us.
My mom never knew, and as a ten year old, I started salting my food so my brothers wouldn’t eat it off my plate.
This might be the same experience she had.
Walk a mile in her shoes.
Well, that is passive aggressive.
I am curious why you think it is bad faith.
Sometimes people have flaws in their personality and how they act. Sometimes all you can do is control how YOU react. I get it, some people don’t deserve to be in other peoples lives. Every situation is different but simply putting labels on people and walking out can also be unhealthy avoidance, a lack of ability to resolve conflicts and a whole bunch of other stuff that just extends this modern throwaway culture.
To use your own words “Walk a mile in their shoes”. There is a reason why people end up the way they are. My Mum was bullied by her Dad and never felt the love her siblings did. Maybe some of that led to her giving too much love and trying to be too involved with her own kids. Walking out is not always the answer, sometimes empathy is because we’re all dealing with our own shit.
This is not me proposing the whole “If you can’t handle me at my worse” bullshit trope. There are some situations though where you really should just accept people for who they are and work on yourself to change your reactions to those things. We are all shaped by our own experiences and it can be naive to expect everyone close to you to act exactly how you want them to.
I think we agree. I see nothing to take issue with.
I have another thread All Things Woo Woo. This is Stoicism, Buddhism, and Taoism. You might find some things of interest there.
This triggered me. Weaponizing others words against them is no bueno.
Yes, for example you mother might have been abusive to her, or you might have discounted her feelings - ring a bell?
And so she bullied you, but you could handle it? Your sister couldn’t? So your sister is a piece of shit because she is built differently?
Sometimes it is. Who are you to decide what is best for your sister?
It kind of is an aggressive fuck off to your sister trope.
Sometimes it is just best to walk away.
For me, that was the deal. Maybe it is best for your sister to do the same. Maybe you should respect that.
Yes!
Maybe it’s just you. My daughter has always talked to me. She probably confided in me more than her mother. She was and is into art. I encouraged her interest in it, would buy her supplies, got her books to help her expand her knowledge of it, etc. I encouraged her interest in music by buying her a guitar and paying for lessons which I took her to.
Education wise, I pushed her to take science and math and she ended up taking AP classes in high school. In college she wanted to major in art, which made me second guess my support of her passion for it, but she listened to me and chose a more practical major with a minor in business.
Congrats.
Don’t respond to me again.
Already read most of it, I actually made a few posts in it.
Weaponizing peoples words usually involves twisting them. Re-using them to add more context or a different perception is not weaponizing.
Abuse is such a strong word that these days often gets used when it’s anything but. Of course real abuse happens, but it seems to be that it’s become a buzzword just like narcissism. People diverting all the blame onto the other person and not being held accountable for their own reactions to people not being perfect.
Herein lies a problem. I am not calling her a piece of shit, I just know that as my Dad declines fast and eventually doesn’t recognise her and then passes… she will live with regrets she will not cope with. People will charade themselves into believing that avoidance is “self-healing” and “self-growth” when oftentimes you’ve got to work on yourself to be able to handle shit better. Succumbing to “i’m weak” or “i’m sensitive” takes all the power away from yourself. This is one of the reasons I am such a fan of Stoicism.
Agree. I haven’t meddled at all other than be the middle man and tried to give my Mum some truths about how she can sometimes be.
I fully understand people can live their lives as they choose. Respecting it when I see both my parents who battled so hard for her growing up, going above and beyond what any average parent would do, crying themselves to sleep every night? Nope, there’s no way I can respect that. It is selfish and naive. There’s toxic people that you should get away from, and there’s people with personality flaws that you should try and get a handle of your own shit with to deal with them better. Running away from things doesn’t make you stronger, it makes you weaker.
Or what? You don’t get to choose who responds once you post something here.
We will disagree on a few things, agree on most, and that is cool.
For me, I will reframe. Taking my toxic brother out of my life is not running away. It is totally a power move on my part.
I think you are stuck in the middle, you side with your mom. I get that. You should try to understand why your sister feels the way she does rather than dismissing her.
My mom is stuck between my brother and I, and I struggle with that. She is 84 with Parkinsons.
But, she knows why I cut my brother out, admits he is a sociopath, and thinks I did the right thing.
I’m not sure about your sister. And I am sorry you are going through it.
I wish I could help.
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