Yeah, from my original post I covered that in #2. Mostly that I rarely see beginners (or anyone for that matter) with anywhere close to the right mobility and motor control to perform any of the main barbell movements correctly/safely. And again to some extent in point #4. Being brand new to programming would make percentage based training pretty unnecessary and possibly hindering. What if things start to click and they can put +30lb on their squat in a week?
I think part of the issue is the guys on this site tend to be more exception than the rule. They are not true “beginners” in the sense that they typically come from some athletic background and maybe messed around with weights at some point throughout high school. Pick any gym commercial or private at random across the world, grab someone brand new, and it’s very unlikely they can safely perform the big lifts with full range of motion.
Sounds like the program worked really well then! Trainee would do well to stick with it and ride it out. PR sets give a great opportunity to test and grow that strength.
I saw number 2 calling for a wider variety of exercises, which is absolutely a part of 5/3/1. It’s why jumps, throws, conditioning and assistance work are applied. Especially so in all of the beginners programs.
But yeah, Jim also explains exactly what you do here: you don’t train on the barbell lifts until you can hold form on it. It’s why I keep referring to 5/3/1 Forever. Covers everything.
Well that all sounds great. Great to see this site hasn’t fallen into the toxicity trap you find with other sites, where you just call me a moron and we insult eachother for a few days and I never learn anything haha.
@T3hPwnisher FWIW, I have, and I don’t think it’d be acceptable to a rank beginner. I do believe parts of it could be hoisted out and reframed for such a person but as a whole I don’t believe a beginner would be able to discern what is and isn’t for them.
Then again, I’ve always ascribed to the teaching philosophy that people are more amenable to learn what they need to when their knowledge gap is something they themselves can perceive. They could just start out going into the weight room without any real plan and once that stops working for them they are more inclined to sit down and learn.
It’s like giving aspirin before the headache.
I do confess this is heavily inspired by my mathematics background. Integrals follow sums.
Off topic, but now curiosity has me. So how do you feel about the current flame free confession thread and what it has turned into now? Haha. It’s the longest thread that has been up and running now
That’s my gripe with it. It’s too comprehensive in relation to the type of person I imagine when I visualise the rank beginner.
That person would make progress even if they only made it to the gym once or twice per week.
Again, this circles back to the notion of buy-in. At that beginner beginner stage the most important thing is establishing consistency. Afterwards, it’s a fine piece of work for anyone to read.
It’s why I ask which book would be a better choice if not that one. Unless the argument we are making is that NO book is for a rank beginner, in which case I take the “needle exchange” approach here wherein, if we HAD to recommend A book, this would be the one I’d recommend.
I don’t remember if Jim wrote it under the Krypteia section of forever, or when he talked about the Krypteia program in a talk for EliteFTS on YouTube, but he specifically said he started his kids with goblet squats and push-ups. He moved them to barbell squats only when they could goblet squat 50lbs for either 25 reps or 50 reps (I think it might have been the latter).
Seems like a pretty good way to start off most people in the weights room
Every video I watch of Dave - he talks so much sense.
The best part was when he was talking about simplifying training. I’m a massive fan of keeping it simple.
I’m a massive fan of one big lift for strength - then 2/3 accessory lifts for higher reps / pump work.
I often wonder if I keep it too simple. But watching that - I guess not.
I don’t follow your log so I’m writing this without background but here’s what I think about this
The answer to this lies in answering “are you progressing?”. Presuming recovery/nutrition is there then if the lifts are progressing your programming is doing what you want it to.
One of the few authors on this site I’d genuinely like to meet.
Granted, I’m a curious person so I could see myself doing 20-60 minute chats to fill in some question marks but Dave seems like someone to just talk to casually for hours and still learn a ton.
Yeah - progressing really well. Looking good for a 100kg press this year and my front squat should be somewhere near 180kg (400lb) soon. So I know I’m doing it right. Its just the constant industry noise Dave talks about. Trying to complicate things.
Thanks for all the info guys. I think to start out, I’ll be doing squats, bench press and assisted pull-ups. The reason I went with these, is because I can hardly do a pull up, push up or squat. I can do push-ups but they’re very difficult for me, I can squat but I’m not strong enough to even do a body weight squat properly (I have to lean forward or I lose my balance, and then my form is screwed) and I can’t do a pull up at all. These are things that I WANT to be able to do, and the thought of working towards that gives me alot of motivation. As I get more consistent and used to the gym, I’ll add in more exercises. Every week I want to be a little closer to doing an unassisted pull up, or a proper squat. That motivates me more than adding 5 pounds to a lift, especially since I wouldn’t be lifting much anyways.
Also I’m on TRT and my recent labs are showing 30+ FT levels, so hopefully I’ll see some nice growth and have more energy In the gym.
