Try the warrior diet.
[quote]Destor wrote:
The point I’m mainly trying to make here is that, realistically, calories don’t matter when you’re eating a ketogenic diet, mainly because fat and protein are so satiating.
If you can eat 1,000 extra calories of fat every single day, sure, maybe you’ll gain bodyfat. Who can actually do that though? I’ve been working on gaining weight for almost 3 years now, I’m very good at force feeding myself and I know without a doubt that I could never accomplish that.
Look at my display picture, that’s me on an average day and I think it’s safe to say that I’m extremely lean. I don’t count calories at all, I don’t worry about calories, because I know that I’ll never eat enough protein/fat to accumulate any amount of bodyfat. Add carbohydrates and it would come very easily.
What was this friend of yours eating that made her able to overcome this? I along with many other people who have tried gaining weight on a low-carb diet would like to know her secret. Then again, females have a much easier time adding weight in general.
I’m actually following a cyclic ketogenic diet now.[/quote]
You never answered my question. Why are you eating ketogenic if you’re after mass?? And my friend got FAT, I said. That’s what you’re after?
C’mon man, at this point, please tell me your just trolling…in which case joke’s on me.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Destor wrote:
The point I’m mainly trying to make here is that, realistically, calories don’t matter when you’re eating a ketogenic diet, mainly because fat and protein are so satiating.
If you can eat 1,000 extra calories of fat every single day, sure, maybe you’ll gain bodyfat. Who can actually do that though? I’ve been working on gaining weight for almost 3 years now, I’m very good at force feeding myself and I know without a doubt that I could never accomplish that.
Look at my display picture, that’s me on an average day and I think it’s safe to say that I’m extremely lean. I don’t count calories at all, I don’t worry about calories, because I know that I’ll never eat enough protein/fat to accumulate any amount of bodyfat. Add carbohydrates and it would come very easily.
What was this friend of yours eating that made her able to overcome this? I along with many other people who have tried gaining weight on a low-carb diet would like to know her secret. Then again, females have a much easier time adding weight in general.
I’m actually following a cyclic ketogenic diet now.[/quote]
You never answered my question. Why are you eating ketogenic if you’re after mass?? And my friend got FAT, I said. That’s what you’re after?
C’mon man, at this point, please tell me your just trolling…in which case joke’s on me. [/quote]
That’s because YOU CAN get fat eating a zero carb diet…in fact, it’s not all that hard since fat is so calorically dense. I’ve also known people who thought keto + surplus of calories was a safe way to put on muscle with little fat gain. Do you know what happened? They put on fat and very little in the way of size, strength and development.
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Risking coming off like a dick to open some people’s eyes…this thread has some of the worst advice I have ever seen from people who don’t look like they have nearly enough experience to give any advice.[/quote]
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
I’ve gotten very lean going low carb/keto, lower fat/high carb, 33/33/33 ratios, carb cycling etc. Do you know what the underlying factor as to why I lost fat and got lean was eating with all of these strategies? I was in a deficit of calories, it won’t work otherwise.
[/quote]
All the recommended diets such as IF and Green Face are very simple ways to to put your body into a caloric deficit. You don’t need to count calories yet you stay below maintenance level qualifying as a “simple plan.”
So I guess my question is… Where you having a bad day yesterday and felt like picking a fight? Your recommendations to count calories and stay in a deficit aren’t mind blowing. To turn that theory into practice you could recommend groups of foods that could be eaten that will help you stay below maintenance. As an example lets use green vegetable and since we need protein lets say meat. Sound familiar?
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Destor wrote:
The point I’m mainly trying to make here is that, realistically, calories don’t matter when you’re eating a ketogenic diet, mainly because fat and protein are so satiating.
If you can eat 1,000 extra calories of fat every single day, sure, maybe you’ll gain bodyfat. Who can actually do that though? I’ve been working on gaining weight for almost 3 years now, I’m very good at force feeding myself and I know without a doubt that I could never accomplish that.
Look at my display picture, that’s me on an average day and I think it’s safe to say that I’m extremely lean. I don’t count calories at all, I don’t worry about calories, because I know that I’ll never eat enough protein/fat to accumulate any amount of bodyfat. Add carbohydrates and it would come very easily.
What was this friend of yours eating that made her able to overcome this? I along with many other people who have tried gaining weight on a low-carb diet would like to know her secret. Then again, females have a much easier time adding weight in general.
I’m actually following a cyclic ketogenic diet now.[/quote]
You never answered my question. Why are you eating ketogenic if you’re after mass?? And my friend got FAT, I said. That’s what you’re after?
C’mon man, at this point, please tell me your just trolling…in which case joke’s on me. [/quote]
Because I have no interest in adding more bodyfat and I am having very little trouble achieving hypertrophy and strength gains without mass amounts of carbs. The 36hr carb loading with with a CKD diet is working fine for the moment.
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
[quote]Destor wrote:
The point I’m mainly trying to make here is that, realistically, calories don’t matter when you’re eating a ketogenic diet, mainly because fat and protein are so satiating.
If you can eat 1,000 extra calories of fat every single day, sure, maybe you’ll gain bodyfat. Who can actually do that though? I’ve been working on gaining weight for almost 3 years now, I’m very good at force feeding myself and I know without a doubt that I could never accomplish that.
Look at my display picture, that’s me on an average day and I think it’s safe to say that I’m extremely lean. I don’t count calories at all, I don’t worry about calories, because I know that I’ll never eat enough protein/fat to accumulate any amount of bodyfat. Add carbohydrates and it would come very easily.
What was this friend of yours eating that made her able to overcome this? I along with many other people who have tried gaining weight on a low-carb diet would like to know her secret. Then again, females have a much easier time adding weight in general.
I’m actually following a cyclic ketogenic diet now.[/quote]
You really don’t look that lean to me. Your abs are showing, but your bodyfat percentage probably isn’t all that low because of your lack of muscle.[/quote]
The lack of muscle is just the reality right now, I was 115lbs @ 5’8 just under three years ago in my mid 20s, and it is likely going to take years to add a lot more.
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Risking coming off like a dick to open some people’s eyes…this thread has some of the worst advice I have ever seen from people who don’t look like they have nearly enough experience to give any advice.[/quote]
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
I’ve gotten very lean going low carb/keto, lower fat/high carb, 33/33/33 ratios, carb cycling etc. Do you know what the underlying factor as to why I lost fat and got lean was eating with all of these strategies? I was in a deficit of calories, it won’t work otherwise.
[/quote]
All the recommended diets such as IF and Green Face are very simple ways to to put your body into a caloric deficit. You don’t need to count calories yet you stay below maintenance level qualifying as a “simple plan.”
So I guess my question is… Where you having a bad day yesterday and felt like picking a fight? Your recommendations to count calories and stay in a deficit aren’t mind blowing. To turn that theory into practice you could recommend groups of foods that could be eaten that will help you stay below maintenance. As an example lets use green vegetable and since we need protein lets say meat. Sound familiar?
[/quote]
Quote where I said calories need to be counted? All I said was that in order to lose weight, you need to be in a deficit of calories or that your calories need to be in line.
“Nothing I mentioned isn’t mind blowing”…no kidding, the title is “simple plan for getting lean”. I thought blowing someone’s mind would defeat the purpose of the thread. Any other brain busters?
Did you take what I said personally? I’m sorry if I upset you. I didn’t even notice whether or not you made a post and wasn’t referring to you anyway. I was referring to Mr. Abz above who yes, I found very irritating.
I also purposefully didn’t mention IF because I’ve done it in the past and it has some serious limitations, especially for someone who trains in the early am, however, yes as you mentioned, is another way to put yourself into a deficit of calories, well done.
I was 135 lbs at 19 years old and 6 foot tall. I’m 220 lbs now. Pretty comparable. It’s going to take a helluva lot longer if you continue trying to add weight without carbs. If I were you, I would reevaluate the strategy you’re using to put on weight.
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
That’s because YOU CAN get fat eating a zero carb diet…in fact, it’s not all that hard since fat is so calorically dense. I’ve also known people who thought keto + surplus of calories was a safe way to put on muscle with little fat gain. Do you know what happened? They put on fat and very little in the way of size, strength and development.[/quote]
What were these people eating? I find that extremely hard to believe, I’m on other low-carb specific forums with plenty of people who are trying to gain weight, and nobody has ever claimed to add large amounts of body fat with <30gs of carbs per day.
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
I was 135 lbs at 19 years old and 6 foot tall. I’m 220 lbs now. Pretty comparable. It’s going to take a helluva lot longer if you continue trying to add weight without carbs. If I were you, I would reevaluate the strategy you’re using to put on weight.[/quote]
You added 85lbs of lean muscle in <3 years?!
I started at 24 years old and have gone from a skinny-fat 115lbs to a much leaner 135, I’m pretty happy with those results.
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Quote where I said calories need to be counted? All I said was that in order to lose weight, you need to be in a deficit of calories or that your calories need to be in line.
Did you take what I said personally? I’m sorry if I upset you. I didn’t even notice whether or not you made a post and wasn’t referring to you anyway. I was referring to Mr. Abz above who yes, I found very irritating.
I also purposefully didn’t mention IF because I’ve done it in the past and it has some serious limitations, especially for someone who trains in the early am.[/quote]
By saying a calorie deficit needs to take place you are implying that calories will need to be kept track of. I mean honestly, how would you know all your past diets worked due to a caloric deficit if you were not keeping track? Don’t go all politician on me and demand I quote you.
I was not offended by your comment but I did think your interjection into this thread was discourteous so I thought I would comment.
[quote]Destor wrote:
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
II’m 220 lbs now. [/quote]
I started at 24 years old and have gone from a skinny-fat 115lbs to a much leaner 135, I’m pretty happy with those results.[/quote]
Anyone who has lifted weights more then a week knows you don’t use a ketogenic diet to gain LBM.
Not to mention he outweighs you by 85 pounds so you lose again on the man-scale.
Court Dismissed
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]Destor wrote:
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
II’m 220 lbs now. [/quote]
I started at 24 years old and have gone from a skinny-fat 115lbs to a much leaner 135, I’m pretty happy with those results.[/quote]
Anyone who has lifted weights more then a week knows you don’t use a ketogenic diet to gain LBM.
Not to mention he outweighs you by 85 pounds so you lose again on the man-scale.
Court Dismissed [/quote]
I’m not using a ketogenic diet to add weight, I’m using a cyclic ketogenic diet, and it’s working fine.
I did high-carb eating for a while, and I weighed 15lbs more than I currently do at the height of it. Too bad that was all glycogen and body fat, I’m far more muscular now than I was back then which albeit, still isn’t that muscular. There’s a long way to go still.
I’ll never weigh a lean 220lbs @ 5’8 naturally and nobody weighs that within <3 years of training when starting out with absolutely no muscle, so that point seems moot.
[quote]Destor wrote:
I am having very little trouble achieving hypertrophy and strength gains without mass amounts of carbs. [/quote]
Yet you are 135lb grown man. One of these things is not like the other. Your approach is like running up the down escalator and wondering why everybody else is getting to the top faster than you.
You are stuck in a rut mentally right now, as you’ve found A WAY that works FOR YOU and it seems to be the entire paradigm holding together your training and dieting right now. Get over your fear and expand your horizons man. You are holding yourself back more than you realize.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Destor wrote:
I am having very little trouble achieving hypertrophy and strength gains without mass amounts of carbs. [/quote]
Yet you are 135lb grown man. One of these things is not like the other. Your approach is like running up the down escalator and wondering why everybody else is getting to the top faster than you.
You are stuck in a rut mentally right now, as you’ve found A WAY that works FOR YOU and it seems to be the entire paradigm holding together your training and dieting right now. Get over your fear and expand your horizons man. You are holding yourself back more than you realize.
135lbs doesn’t sound like much until you see what my body looked like before. Everything has grown significantly, and it’s continuing to. I’m not aiming to be hyooge, I want to add another 40lbs of lean muscle absolute max, and I feel that I’m progressing towards that at a decent rate.
I was EXTREMELY skinny and in my mid 20s when hypertrophy rates have already slowed down (as opposed to being a teen). Everyone that actually knows me has commented on how much bigger I am, literally just 2 days ago a guy at work mentioned how much bigger my arms are looking. They’re still tiny, but they are undoubtably growing at a rate that is fine by me.
[quote]Destor wrote:
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
I was 135 lbs at 19 years old and 6 foot tall. I’m 220 lbs now. Pretty comparable. It’s going to take a helluva lot longer if you continue trying to add weight without carbs. If I were you, I would reevaluate the strategy you’re using to put on weight.[/quote]
You added 85lbs of lean muscle in <3 years?!
I started at 24 years old and have gone from a skinny-fat 115lbs to a much leaner 135, I’m pretty happy with those results.[/quote]
I’m 29.
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Quote where I said calories need to be counted? All I said was that in order to lose weight, you need to be in a deficit of calories or that your calories need to be in line.
Did you take what I said personally? I’m sorry if I upset you. I didn’t even notice whether or not you made a post and wasn’t referring to you anyway. I was referring to Mr. Abz above who yes, I found very irritating.
I also purposefully didn’t mention IF because I’ve done it in the past and it has some serious limitations, especially for someone who trains in the early am.[/quote]
By saying a calorie deficit needs to take place you are implying that calories will need to be kept track of.[/quote]
Not everytime (IF as an example), however, anytime I lost weight, I must have been in a deficit of calories. I may have interjected less than respectful, but I needed anyone who was following the thread to question some of the previous posters (I have nothing but respect for many of them, Chris Colucci, Greg, steely, etc).
Also to answer Mr Abz question; sour cream, heavy whipping cream, eggs, cheese, pork, sausage, steak, nuts, peanut butter, fish etc. I honestly understand that you’ve found something where you’re making progress and can respect that, but I would ask you what carb sources you were relying upon in the past that you were fatter than you are right now?
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Quote where I said calories need to be counted? All I said was that in order to lose weight, you need to be in a deficit of calories or that your calories need to be in line.
Did you take what I said personally? I’m sorry if I upset you. I didn’t even notice whether or not you made a post and wasn’t referring to you anyway. I was referring to Mr. Abz above who yes, I found very irritating.
I also purposefully didn’t mention IF because I’ve done it in the past and it has some serious limitations, especially for someone who trains in the early am.[/quote]
By saying a calorie deficit needs to take place you are implying that calories will need to be kept track of.[/quote]
Not everytime (IF as an example), however, anytime I lost weight, I must have been in a deficit of calories. I may have interjected less than respectful, but I needed anyone who was following the thread to question some of the previous posters (I have nothing but respect for many of them, Chris Colucci, Greg, steely, etc).
Also to answer Mr Abz question; sour cream, heavy whipping cream, eggs, cheese, pork, sausage, steak, nuts, peanut butter, fish etc. I honestly understand that you’ve found something where you’re making progress and can respect that, but I would ask you what carb sources you were relying upon in the past that you were fatter than you are right now?
[/quote]
Dude, 10 years of training. 8.5lbs per year, I’ve gained more than that so far and I’m 4" shorter and I started training 5 years later than you. Obviously progress will taper off as I add more muscle, but still.
If I look like shit in 8 more years of training, I’ll concede that my system here is garbage, but I don’t think you can fault my results so far.
I was doing 4L of homogenized milk daily on top of stuffing myself with other carbs. I’ll admit that I probably wasn’t eating the best sources (I was doing a lot of pasta on other peoples recommendations due to my low weight), but I think I’m making better progress now than I was eating that diet.
Theres a healthy debate going here, a few cheap shots, par for the course around here I guess. I like the spirit in here so I’ll continue posting.
This little gem jumped out at me.
[quote]Destor wrote:
If you can eat 1,000 extra calories of fat every single day, sure, maybe you’ll gain bodyfat. Who can actually do that though? I’ve been working on gaining weight for almost 3 years now, I’m very good at force feeding myself and I know without a doubt that I could never accomplish that.
[/quote]
Are you telling me you couldnt eat a half jar of natty PB (which is about 90% fat) extra per day? I eat that while I’m looking in the fridge deciding what I am actually going to eat, takes me about 2 minutes.
There of course are different hormonal responses to specific macros, thats not up for debate. But the overwhelming majority of attribution of muscle/fat gain and loss comes from total calories consumed vs total calories expended.
[quote]ColinD624 wrote:
Theres a healthy debate going here, a few cheap shots, par for the course around here I guess. I like the spirit in here so I’ll continue posting.
This little gem jumped out at me.
[quote]Destor wrote:
If you can eat 1,000 extra calories of fat every single day, sure, maybe you’ll gain bodyfat. Who can actually do that though? I’ve been working on gaining weight for almost 3 years now, I’m very good at force feeding myself and I know without a doubt that I could never accomplish that.
[/quote]
Are you telling me you couldnt eat a half jar of natty PB (which is about 90% fat) extra per day? I eat that while I’m looking in the fridge deciding what I am actually going to eat, takes me about 2 minutes.
There of course are different hormonal responses to specific macros, thats not up for debate. But the overwhelming majority of attribution of muscle/fat gain and loss comes from total calories consumed vs total calories expended.[/quote]
Okay okay, with liquid (or liquidy) calories it’s definitely much more doable. PB, Whipping Cream, Sour Cream, drinking straight up oil/fats, that would make it infinitely easier. I wasn’t even considering the liquid calories which is a blatant mistake on my part, i was only thinking about solid food, meat, nuts, etc.