This is a great discussion, I do not think that 531 is the best program.
I think it’s a good program for general strength and for a trainee to show some strength all the time.
However Mark and you are training specific for PL and you have to show extreme strength at one specific day.
Your programs, do build up the work capacity and volume over time, then you do a period of peaking reducing volume and increasing intensity that is very very common PL or strength training principle.
I’m not going to argue on that one.
Simos program is a very common PL way of doing it, I think Marks is more special just like Westside is a very special way of doing it.
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If that wasn’t the case I would have the craziest track records of bad performances ever. Or the other way around if I waited with my training for a day I feel good, I would hardly accumulate any sessions 
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I just thought it sounded like a funny paradox. Consistent autoregulation.
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What came first though. Big hed or big training plan. What exercises you do for hed
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See, now I am not even sure which part of me you are making fun of. There are so many possibilities.
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Very possible. Hard to execute though, because we are almost never objective about ourselves in the moment. So, with real time coaching maybr a little easier.
It takes out the main cause of problems: our thought process and emotions. First step is a training max, that’s your buffer. Very close to using some kind of constant to account for fatigue, stressors, etc but instead you just take 80-90% of your most recent best.
Then, we have a very fair idea of how many reps, sets and total reps we can do at a given percentage of our max. We apply that to the training max, so if we are a little over enthusiastic it’s ok. Because we work in that rep/set range also unlikely we won’t do enough. At worst, we do less than we could have in hindsight, but still enough to generate some fatigue.
We actually have reasonably reliable data to guide us for this, a lot from former USSR where they actually studied this. The basic peak is push a little further than the body can fully recover from when in an already fatigued state; then rest for five to 10 days. Data shows whatever you could do in that fatigued state, you will exceed by two to five per cent after that recovery period.
So providing you go into a peak following reasonably intelligent training you have a very fair idea of how it will end up. A peak is also a short enough period that we can track external stressors better and somewhat mitigate them.
The issue of pushing too hard arises midway, just before the extra fatigue hits. You feel great, so take another, slightly heavier, fatigued max. You get it. Or you miss it. Either way, you just added more fatigue to the mix that the peak cannot account for or mitigate in time. When your performance date comes around, you are a few days short of recovered and fall short of the mark.
Because generally speaking this is unnecessary to generate satisfactory results, and it introduces multiple opportunities to make mistakes.
Using percentages and submax loads to accumulate fatigue and then adapt and recover is the Kalashnikov of training: any peasant can use it to lethal effect with minimal education.
You can go the auto regulation route, but you have a much, much narrower margin of error. For many/most it ends up resulting in occasionally great training sessions and many more disappointing competition performances. Probably biggest factor is real time coach. With an experienced coach much more likely to work well, and peak will end up running very similar to percentage based.
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Thnx for the info. If velocity based training ever takes off would you be keen? More objective.
I’m with an AI app right now and within the session it’s pretty simplistic. There’s a target “hardness” and it bumps if is too ez but no more than 10kg on working weight and drops if you overshoot.
@MarkKO @simo74 now that I think about it the athletes who are up and there are really want to eke our that little bit more gains in a given time frame would benefit most from the tinkering of autoregulation but would also have better (probably) regulation of external factors and recovery outside the gym and the coaches to manage it also.
Robo Sheiko is aight for now.
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Maybe. Probably not though. I tend to stick with what works
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But is makes go fast. Louie Simmons says speed is like good and stuff
Definitely. Velocity based training may be great.
I don’t tend to change things when they work though.
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Friday 24 April peak week 2
Deadlift
Bar x 10
65 x 5
105 x 3
125 x 2
145 x 1
165 x 1
172.5 x 1 (380 lbs) RPE 8
162.5 x 4 x 5 sets (358 lbs) RPE 8, 7, 8, 9, 9.5
Back was sore before I started tonight !! Ok once I got warm. This was hard tonight…brutal!!
Squat 310 (3 sec down, 1 sec pause)
Bar x 10
65 x 5
85 x 3
110 x 3 x 4 sets (242 lbs)
Lower back pumped bad, should have been 5 reps but kept these to three reps, just to practice the movement.
Bench
Bar x 10
65 x 5
85 x 3
100 x 4 x 3 sets RPE 8, 8,
Still not right, a little better but more work to do.
Cable row with rope handle
5 sets
Good session tonight. Dead’s were tough but just got the reps done. Happy.
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Do you mean like using a velocity device to measure bar speed ?? I wouldn’t count it out but I would want to understand it a lot more and see results. I am a simple man (so my wife tells me) so if it’s was complicated I doubt I would sign up.
Honestly I dunno what it looks like. Bar speed is like one of the measurement it goes off. As u get closer to max ur bar speed drops. Dunno whether it measure peak, average or whatever. I don’t think it’ll take off but don’t see why u couldn’t enter your velocities into an AI app like mine and let it process and spit out work for u
Deff possible. I pretty sure my coach used to measure bar speed with some sort of device. I will ask him next time we chat.
Either I misread the program or this has changed over time (I’m guessing it’s the latter). My run with 5/3/1 was no fun. AMRAP means as many reps as possible to me so I did that. The following week I had to do enough to beat that e1RM. It didn’t take long for that to 1) stress me out and 2) wear me out.
Had too much of both last night. I’ll let you know how my session feels today. I feel like crap now so I’m guessing I’ll smash the weights.
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I want something that measures work and force to prove I’m stronger than the weight on the bar indicates. 
I think that would possibly show us who’s truly stronger on a given movement instead of who is advantaged by their structure.
If you weren’t, like, 6 foot 8 and 225 I would swear we could be long lost step brothers.
My knowledge of 531 is based on the original postings here on this site, and I am pretty clear Jim strongly advocated going balls out (AMRAP) on the money sets. So that is what I have always done. The only thing I do unusual beyond that is that I am doing it as something more like 10RM instead of 1RM. Old Skool. And then I do Big But Boring on top of that, to make it Older Skool. It always works. But it is also boring and really, really fucking hard. I am sure Mort’s version works to, but it is a different animal.
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I’m barely 6’5". @anon96032531 is our resident giant around here.
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Technically, you can’t be “barely” 6’5”. You either are or you aren’t. But whatever, you’re tall as shit, is the point.
I think I’m one of those folks who’s 6’5" first thing in the morning but 6’4.875" by evening.
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