[quote]RankHypocrisy wrote:
This thread is intriguing, and it really has me thinking. I would like to incorporate compound movements as much as possible in my workout, so I have the following questions:
How would you count power cleans or snatches – as lower body exercises or as shoulder exercises? What about deadlifts – lower body or back?[/quote]
Won’t this depend on your biomechanics? Deadlifts for me are a lower body lift while for some are primarily a back exercise. Power cleans are for me a shoulder / arm exercise because they are the weak link in the movement.
[quote]RankHypocrisy wrote:
This thread is intriguing, and it really has me thinking. I would like to incorporate compound movements as much as possible in my workout, so I have the following questions:
How would you count power cleans or snatches – as lower body exercises or as shoulder exercises? What about deadlifts – lower body or back?[/quote]
I don’t think the distinction of upper vs lower matters as much as simply putting them into your workouts.
This is what TC says about Oly lifts-
Olympic lifting is something I should have adopted from day one. It uses, and what?s more, cultivates muscle fibers that aren?t recruited during normal bodybuilding-type workouts.
I think you would be just fine with a four day/wk workout:
Workout A- Squat 15 min PR Zone followed by the Clean and Jerk for a 20 minute PR Zone.
Workout B - Deadlift 15 minute PR Zone followed by the Snatch for a 15 minute PR Zone.
Heck, I think you could alternate these M W F Sun T Thu Sat, for a month or two and watch the muscle pack on.
With that said, I have two comments. 1. If you’re doing the oly movements correctly and performing them under the recommendations of CW’s programs, I think it will be very difficult to be productive with both squats and clean and jerks and deadlifts and snatch in the same workouts, respectively.
2. If you’re new to oly lifts be very careful that you know how to do them correctly before adding appreciable amounts of weight. You can get away with bad form for awhile but they’ll come back to get you like a thief in the night. I’ve seen it many times.
I try to work oly lifts in with fairly light weights focusing on proper form and speed of the movement. I’m not sure how they factor in to a program like ABBH, etc.
I think I have some of Bob Hoffmans old three day per week routines. I researched them a few years back. If you would like I could try to hunt them up and put them on this thread.
Anyone interested? If so simply let me know. No problem either way.
Here is my question. I think that after seeing all of the possibilities, its tough to pick a program, however I am more confused about the basics.
CS - Should it be two sets of every exercise selected? and then how many reps do you usually look to do?
Are you selecting one or two exercises per body part? (Back, Chest, Tri’s, Bi’s, Shoulders, Legs)
If I am going to start a program, I would rather do it correctly, otherwise, it gets frustrating. Any advice on the basics (then I can construct a program and get feedback on it).
[quote]dfuniversal wrote:
Zeb, those programs would be great.
Here is my question. I think that after seeing all of the possibilities, its tough to pick a program, however I am more confused about the basics.
CS - Should it be two sets of every exercise selected? and then how many reps do you usually look to do?
Are you selecting one or two exercises per body part? (Back, Chest, Tri’s, Bi’s, Shoulders, Legs)
If I am going to start a program, I would rather do it correctly, otherwise, it gets frustrating. Any advice on the basics (then I can construct a program and get feedback on it). [/quote]
Good ?s man. I personally do not feel that I get in to the groove by doing just two sets but maybe that will change. I am doing the same 8 compound movements each day but doing M 5x3, W 3x6, and F 2x10. I started another thread to get some feedback on your basic questions but got no definitive answers. CS says he also is in the experimental phase, but we would probably all lean pretty solid on his advice and recs.
[quote]dfuniversal wrote:
CS - Should it be two sets of every exercise selected? and then how many reps do you usually look to do?
Are you selecting one or two exercises per body part? (Back, Chest, Tri’s, Bi’s, Shoulders, Legs)
[/quote]
One or two sets per exercise. I prefer two right now. I feel the first is needed to prep for the all-out second. Tim Patterson, who turned me on to this type of training, agrees. However, traditional HIT and parts of New HIT (if you’re going that route) prescribe one set to failure.
Reps: Very roughly, between 8-15, usually 10-12.
Exercises: One per bodypart or major muscle group. Alternate them on different days. So you may do bench press, dips and flyes for chest, but each exercise for two sets on different days, like Mon, Wed, Fri.
Not all in the same workout.
This is how I’m doing it at least. Lots of options though.
[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Reps: Very roughly, between 8-15, usually 10-12.[/quote]
So, you don’t think it is necessary to vary the rep scheme for maximal strength, endurance, explosivity, etc?
I also have a question about supersets. I tried a full-body workout yesterday, and I did antagonistic supersets, such as push press and pull-ups. I have seen that Chad Waterbury suggests 90 seconds between antagonistic supersets, but he also mentions resting between the first and second sets of a superset. Do you agree with this? If so, how long should you rest between the A1 and A2 parts of the superset?
Basically, I guess I am curious about the optimal rest periods between parts of a single superset, between supersets, and between exercises for this type of a workout.
So, you don’t think it is necessary to vary the rep scheme for maximal strength, endurance, explosivity, etc?
[/quote]
Right now I’m keeping it simple and sticking to the original parameters to really test it out. I may vary rep schemes and use supersets later. CW certainly knows his stuff and often recommends this, but I want to try it out without dicking with it too much right now.
Hey guys. I’m a newbie to this thread thing so apologies if i sound like a geek.
Just wanted to make the comment that if you can’t afford all the supplements to speed up recovery, then just add a day or two recovery in between workouts.
Another comment i’d like to make about this is that we have gone full circle.
You can look at Brawn, Mentzers Work, Big Lou F’s book, Arnolds first routines and i’d even say to an extent weiders work.
All of these do full body routines, may be with different principles.
Split routines only came from the fact that muscle mags have to sell supplements. They make normal people try to train like pro’s on routines that dont work. When they don’t work, people think they must be doing something wrong, hence they buy supplements.
Magazines don’t dish out good basic routines because people would get results, stop buying supplements, hence magazines would loose advertising.
Get on a good fullbody routine. If you can afford DECENT supplements to help recover, buy them, if not rest more and eat well.
Lets really get behind this type of training, get rid of idiots that promote stupid routines and start getting results. Then we may get a new age of golden era of bodybuilding
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
Does anyone dare to try the ultimate minimalist routine:
First 20 minute EDT PR Zone - power clean and push press (this zone is longer because you’re doing two movements - a clean and a press)
Second 15 minute EDT PR Zone - squat
Abs if you want.
80% 1RM, try to get 25 total reps, then add weight.[/quote]
Mike-
You gotta try this man. I just finished my third workout this week. All I can say is WOW! Right now, I am repping out at 25 for each PR zone. I probably started a little light, but the nice thing about the work out is that, when you rep out, you increase the weight next time.
Next week this time, I will be hitting a PR Zone for squats with what was previously a four rep max.
Delts are a little sore, but as I said… gotta love progress.
The only addition I made was some active recovery on off days with a pair of 10 pound Clubbells, I just got them. Great tools,… but that is a discussion for another thread.