Shoulder Stabilization For Overhead Squats

tom63 · December 21, 2005, 7:50pm

I won’t argue that overhead squats can be helpful, I just think they have more risk than people are willing to acknowledge.

This exercise recently gained popularity. One of the reasons is that people like trying new things for their hobby, in this case weightlifting.

In my mind and training, this has higher risk than acceptable for many people. The overhead squat will cause greater shearing stress on your shoulder joint than the bench press or press. If you are predispositioned to shoulder problems, it will be a bad idea.

I can assess movement patterns fine with a regular bacvk squat. By observing posture, I can assess shoulder flexibility along with tight and weak muscles.

It’s fine for a variation, but riskier than a squat when weights increase. If you’re an olympic liffter, it’s a vaulable tool. I just think there are better things that beginners can be doing.

Also, I would never have an overhead athlete ( thrower ) do these. Again, to much risk. There’s no need to hurt the quarterback or 95 mph fastball guy with this exercise.

tom63 · December 21, 2005, 7:59pm

[quote]deadgame wrote:
no one here is insisting on performing an exercise “blindly” or insisting on exercises being performed by those not ready. SFT is already doing OHS and has worked up to 95lbs.

He wanted to know how to get stronger. YOU have a torn labrum…obviously someone I wouldn’t have performing an OHS, OH press, back squat, bench press, etc…

You are someone who is injured, and the fact that you have an injury is holding you back. However, I maintain that an OHS is one of the qualifying moves for an athlete. Just seeing someone perform with a broomstick will allow me to analyze immediately where their weakness might lie and thus lay out a format to bring up any imbalances.

Let me ask you something…if/when you get surgery to repair your shoulder, would you consider doing OHS to improve your shoulder flexibility and strength? Or will you continue to let your bad shoulders be an excuse not to perform such an athletic movement?

If you had bad knees would you continue to squat and lunge or would you relegate yourself to the leg press (only to 90 degrees though!) and the calf raise. Don’t do step ups or jumping movements…plyos are out too.

I believe that weakness/pain/injury can be the perfect excuse to perform athletic full body movements to allow myself the opportunity to become stronger and more resistant to injury.[/quote]

I would nver perform this. First, if I chose the surgery, which I won’t, I wouldn’t be allowed to perform soemthing like this for over a year. It won’t repair the shoulder. I know, I treat shoulders. 95 lbs as the lifter is doing is very light.

I have tried overhad squats in the past ( a few years ago) and could easily rep 135. This strength was developed by stretching and lifting. Box squats, regular squats, good mornings, etc.

AS for shoulder rehab, I have friends who are the best in the business, Mike Hope , and Dr. Dale Buchberger. I started my rehab with traditional side lying external rotations. I increased wieght and reps for a few weeks, then added in scapular retractions ( supported dumbell raises prone.

I then added in regular weight training, consisting of safety bar squats, deadlifts, reverse hypers, glute ham and such for lower body, 3-5 board presses, scapular retractor work such as rows, dumbell and pendlay for example, triceps pushdowns, hammer curls ( the biceps tendon is not involved).

I have increase my raw 3 board to 350 x 3 at a bodyweight of 212. This is an all time best by the way. I have gotten myofascial release on the hurt areas ( this was from a motor vehicle collision) and am doing laser therapy at my office.

I’m essentially pain free. I can lay on the shoulder without pain or aggravation, but will not throw. I taught myself to throw lefty to play ball with my 11 year old boy.

I’m self employed, so three months off is not my cup of tea. i just avoind risky exercises and try to strengthen what I can.

deadgame · December 21, 2005, 8:43pm

[quote]tom63 wrote:
I would nver perform this. First, if I chose the surgery, which I won’t, I wouldn’t be allowed to perform soemthing like this for over a year. It won’t repair the shoulder. I know, I treat shoulders. 95 lbs as the lifter is doing is very light.

I have tried overhad squats in the past ( a few years ago) and could easily rep 135. This strength was developed by stretching and lifting. Box squats, regular squats, good mornings, etc.

AS for shoulder rehab, I have friends who are the best in the business, Mike Hope , and Dr. Dale Buchberger. I started my rehab with traditional side lying external rotations. I increased wieght and reps for a few weeks, then added in scapular retractions ( supported dumbell raises prone.

I then added in regular weight training, consisting of safety bar squats, deadlifts, reverse hypers, glute ham and such for lower body, 3-5 board presses, scapular retractor work such as rows, dumbell and pendlay for example, triceps pushdowns, hammer curls ( the biceps tendon is not involved).

I have increase my raw 3 board to 350 x 3 at a bodyweight of 212. This is an all time best by the way. I have gotten myofascial release on the hurt areas ( this was from a motor vehicle collision) and am doing laser therapy at my office.

I’m essentially pain free. I can lay on the shoulder without pain or aggravation, but will not throw. I taught myself to throw lefty to play ball with my 11 year old boy.

I’m self employed, so three months off is not my cup of tea. i just avoind risky exercises and try to strengthen what I can.

[/quote]

I don’t disagree with anything you have posted here. I also understand shoulder rehab, and have rehabbed shoulders. I have spent the last year interning with an ART guy (as I believe you are). I have implemented the Buchberger 12 many,many times.

I still believe that an uninjured person should be able to perform OHS quite safely and without the fear of shoulder injury. I am a huge risk vs. benefit guy. I work with athletes, and in doing so, would never compromise their ability to play/perform by implementing an exercise that had a high degree of risk.

I maintain that a correctly performed OHS isn’t any more dangerous than benching 315, squatting 500 or snatching 225. The most important factor is the readiness of the individual to perform ANY MOVE with strength and safety. I happen to have a different opinion than you in that I would mandate that any overhead player perform these OH type moves.

OHS, jerks of all kinds, snatches etc. If the limbs aren’t strengthened in an extended position in a controlled environment than how can they possibly be ready for the playing arena. I have seen to many B-ball players injure their shoulders by having a dunk blocked or a shoulder over-extended going for a rebound.

I equate this to performing lunges where the knee goes past the toes (squatting also). If the body gets put into the position while playing, we load the same position while training.

Everyone has different ideas on training; my two cents.

Krollmonster · December 21, 2005, 9:14pm

[quote]tom63 wrote:
This is why it’s a stupid idea to insist on an exercise blindly for everyone.

I have a torn right labrum. It would be a stupid idea to try this exercise for me. As of now, I’m almost ready to try a regular bar squat. For five months I’ve been restricted to safety bar squats.

Not all full body exercises are great for everyone. Some will benefit, some won’t.

Currently I can squat over 500 lbs with the safety squat bar off a below parallel box. The weight necessary for me to make any kind of gains would tear the hell out of my shoulder.[/quote]

Oops sorry. I didn’t have the opportunity to go through a complete medical history with you. Maybe you can find a leg development post where I suggest that the person squat. Then you can chime in on how I “blindly” recommend the squat when everyone can’t do the squat because of someone pre-existing injury nobody knew about.

Read the original question in this topic. He didn’t ask if it was safe, he asked about losing the weight forward. When I say people have difficulty doing this movement, I mean in terms of flexibility throughout the chest and shoulders. Once they get this (assuming they can regular squat deep) it is just a matter of practice.

You did read the part about starting very light, perhaps with a broomstick right?? Of course if there is pain you aren’t going to continue
the exercise!

But if you lack shoulder flexibility, as you descend in the squat, the BROOMSTICK will drift forward where you can drop it. That person will have to work on his flexibility before trying the lift again.

Where is the danger? Now of course if someone decides to pile on the weight without mastering the form, then that is their own fault. Same can be said for squats, even your safety squats, right?

So, instead of saying people have stupid ideas, why not offer suggestions on how to get his form better and start a new thread ALL about your injury.

tom63 · December 21, 2005, 10:28pm

I know how to handle my injury, since I treat such injuries.

Over the years I’ve seen various exercises get popular that have some drawbacks. The overhead squat is one. It is not the panacea that some make it. Yes it can be safe fro some. Yes if flexibility is lacking you can increase it and work up gradually.

And yes, if you’re predisposed to shoulder problems you can screw yourself up when other exercises can do the job better.

If he’s healthy and wants to increase his overhead squat, that’s great. However, it’s not the endall in strength training.

I’ve seen various exercises get resurrected over thirty years, some good some bad. I would rather see most people learn to squat correctly, work on building their scapular retractors, learn bench form etc., than concentrate on an exericse that has more limited application with a greater potential to injure than average.

As for blanket exercise recommendations, most should not be made. I have to couch my suggestions because I’m a professional for liability concerns. It’s a lot easier for a lay person to render blanket statements than any treating physician or therapist.

tom63 · December 21, 2005, 10:34pm

[quote]deadgame wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I would nver perform this. First, if I chose the surgery, which I won’t, I wouldn’t be allowed to perform soemthing like this for over a year. It won’t repair the shoulder. I know, I treat shoulders. 95 lbs as the lifter is doing is very light.