[quote]zraw wrote:
Fact : ive done upright rows for the lateral head when I was DCing and didnt have good delts
Fact : Im doing lateral raises or partial lateral raises and i have good delts
Fact : This thread is lol[/quote]
I am hoping that when he posts his photo, he will look better than you. Otherwise, I am unsure what his proof would be that this is effective.[/quote]
Basic knowledge of physiology and biomechanics is all the proof I need. [/quote]
Dude your a funny guy…with all your knowledge you should start writing articles for this site lol. Funny thing is the guys your debating this with aren’t scarred to post pics… funny guy[/quote]
Not to shabby for a twenty rear old at 5’10 eh?
Rear delts are stimulated with every pulling exercise when we train back.
Upright rows bothers my shoulders. They are risky for impingement.
I do band pull-aparts for warmup every single workout.
Side raises at different angles and different rep ranges plain work for medial delts…meaning they have done more for me than shoulder presses.[/quote]
Correct.
They bother your shoulders because you do them with a narrow grip and pull the weight up to your chin.
Nice!
You only do side raises because the pros told you too or you read it in a magazine/article.
The function of the Side deltoid is to laterally abduct, we don’t need to keep the arm straight to do so. Doing so just puts us at a mechanical disadvantage. My point of this post was not to disrespect anyone but encourage people to recognize that most of us treat our side deltoids and rear deltoids like there a special case and need “isolation exercises” to grow, suggesting this is like suggesting isolation movements are superoir, which we know there not. When it comes to training a muscle on the torso, the arms should never be straight. You wouldn’t do a front raise instead of a shoulder press, right?[/quote]
??? No ??? i Think i know what grip i use.
I just don’t think there’s another way for me to hit them after à fatique my front delts from pressing. I also said that i had personally seen more growth from raises so i don’t do them because someone told me to.
Lateral abduction of the humerus with your arms straight does not create a better training stimulus than abduction with a bend in the elbow. Nor does it allow for as consistant progress. [/quote]
Yet lateral abduction with arms straight can create more stimulus with a lesser load due to the mechanical disadvantage (which you already acknowledged). If lifting a heavier dumbell due to a bent arm satisfies your ego, yet at the most basic level is providing the same muscle stress on the target, then all you’ve done is impress yourself in the mirror.
Additionally, your working definition of “consistent progress” is not actually consistent with the goals of bodybuilders or physique oriented athletes. As such, you can argue about training for ever increasing #s all you want, but it’s pointless in a bodybuilding forum. I wasted many of my early training years chasing #s. Then I realized what I wanted out of my training and spent the majority of years until now learning how to use less weight to achieve my goals.
(That’s all I’ve got, after reading through the rest of this thread I’m out)
[quote]zraw wrote:
Fact : ive done upright rows for the lateral head when I was DCing and didnt have good delts
Fact : Im doing lateral raises or partial lateral raises and i have good delts
Fact : This thread is lol[/quote]
I am hoping that when he posts his photo, he will look better than you. Otherwise, I am unsure what his proof would be that this is effective.[/quote]
Basic knowledge of physiology and biomechanics is all the proof I need. [/quote]
Holy shit dude u look like a you Arnold damn I’m sorry that I doubted you…lmao
Dude your a funny guy…with all your knowledge you should start writing articles for this site lol. Funny thing is the guys your debating this with aren’t scarred to post pics… funny guy[/quote]
Not to shabby for a twenty rear old at 5’10 eh?
[/quote]
one arm upright row are awesome for medial delt and you can use heavy weight. I have been doing these for a while. you can manipulate the path in which you pull and rotate the dumbell so that there is not those same risks as barbell uprigth rows. Another good one: face pulls using various angles. there also a ton of ways to get creative with rear delts to hit them heavy and not increase risk for injury.
Cool topic, i agree with your thinking op
OPs argument = medial delts are firing the same with upright rows and lateral raises, use upright rows always because you can progress on them
agreed
so I should do upright rows and plug them into 5/3/1 templates? Every week I’ll set a new rep/weight PR with them. In a few months I’ll be at 315 for reps and next year I’ll be at 405 for reps. holler
If you want good numbers in the big lifts then an appropriate source of information would be soemone who has achieved that. Young, if true your squat is impressive
BUT
contradicting the excellent/enviable shoulder hypertrophy and aesthetics of guys like zraw and stu (who is a pro I would like to remind you) by quoting anatomy/biomechanics from a textbook and undermining their achievements in bodybuilding by saying “subjective” is weak…
Knowing angles/mechanics from a book and having very well-developed shoulders are two different things.
There’s a phrase “two ears, two eyes, one mouth”.
If you want good numbers in the big lifts then an appropriate source of information would be soemone who has achieved that. Young, if true your squat is impressive
BUT
contradicting the excellent/enviable shoulder hypertrophy and aesthetics of guys like zraw and stu (who is a pro I would like to remind you) by quoting anatomy/biomechanics from a textbook and undermining their achievements in bodybuilding by saying “subjective” is weak…
Knowing angles/mechanics from a book and having very well-developed shoulders are two different things.
There’s a phrase “two ears, two eyes, one mouth”.
[quote]dannyrat wrote:
If you want good numbers in the big lifts then an appropriate source of information would be soemone who has achieved that. Young, if true your squat is impressive
BUT
contradicting the excellent/enviable shoulder hypertrophy and aesthetics of guys like zraw and stu (who is a pro I would like to remind you) by quoting anatomy/biomechanics from a textbook and undermining their achievements in bodybuilding by saying “subjective” is weak…
Knowing angles/mechanics from a book and having very well-developed shoulders are two different things.
There’s a phrase “two ears, two eyes, one mouth”. [/quote]
X2
Communism sounds great on paper but just doesn’t work well when applied to real life lol.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
After seeing the photos, I’m also calling “troll” on this one.
[/quote]
I’m 192 pounds at 5’10 , these phtoes where at 180. I squat 565# at 192. My physique is clearly more impressive than yours and my numbers are higher. If the level of physiue development is directly proportional to “Troll” Status, than you are more a troll than I.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
After seeing the photos, I’m also calling “troll” on this one.
[/quote]
I’m 192 pounds at 5’10 , these phtoes where at 180. I squat 565# at 192. My physique is clearly more impressive than yours and my numbers are higher. If the level of physiue development is directly proportional to “Troll” Status, than you are more a troll than I.[/quote]
So… what’s your point?
I mean, there’s no arguing that upright rows have been considered good for shoulder development for most of the past 50 years. You’re right in that sense.
But it seems that while there’s some good results, people get better results faster with isolation work than compound work, at least for shoulders.
There are plenty of exercises to target any group of muscles, some of which work better for some people than others due to leverages, tendon attachments, etc. Taking all of that into consideration, it seems a lot of people have had more success with John Meadow’s style high-rep high-volume shoulder isolation work than any compound based program.
But that’s not to say that compounds don’t work… they just don’t seem to work quite as well.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
After seeing the photos, I’m also calling “troll” on this one.
[/quote]
I’m 192 pounds at 5’10 , these phtoes where at 180. I squat 565# at 192. My physique is clearly more impressive than yours and my numbers are higher. If the level of physiue development is directly proportional to “Troll” Status, than you are more a troll than I.[/quote]
I think you mean inversely proportional, because by saying he’s a bigger troll than you, you’ve also said his physique is more developed.
Whether or not the biceps abduct the humerus is irrelevant. You can use a heavier weight in an upright row because you’re a) using more than just your shoulders to lift the weight, and b) using a shorter lever arm. If the lever arm was longer you’d have to produce just as much force to move less weight, but the muscles are still producing that force and working just as hard. If you like lifting big weights, awesome, big weights are fun, and you should enjoy your lifting, but bigger weight doesn’t always mean the target muscle is going to grow more. Too many people have had success using lateral raises instead of presses or upright rows for you to be able to to argue that they don’t work well for shoulder development.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
After seeing the photos, I’m also calling “troll” on this one.
[/quote]
I’m 192 pounds at 5’10 , these phtoes where at 180. I squat 565# at 192. My physique is clearly more impressive than yours and my numbers are higher. If the level of physiue development is directly proportional to “Troll” Status, than you are more a troll than I.[/quote]
So… what’s your point?
I mean, there’s no arguing that upright rows have been considered good for shoulder development for most of the past 50 years. You’re right in that sense.
But it seems that while there’s some good results, people get better results faster with isolation work than compound work, at least for shoulders.
Meadows stuff is the only thing that helped with the atrophy I was battling after surgery
There are plenty of exercises to target any group of muscles, some of which work better for some people than others due to leverages, tendon attachments, etc. Taking all of that into consideration, it seems a lot of people have had more success with John Meadow’s style high-rep high-volume shoulder isolation work than any compound based program.
But that’s not to say that compounds don’t work… they just don’t seem to work quite as well.[/quote]
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
After seeing the photos, I’m also calling “troll” on this one.
[/quote]
I’m 192 pounds at 5’10 , these phtoes where at 180. I squat 565# at 192. My physique is clearly more impressive than yours and my numbers are higher. If the level of physiue development is directly proportional to “Troll” Status, than you are more a troll than I.[/quote]
lol, what does your alleged squat have to do with shoulder training?
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
After seeing the photos, I’m also calling “troll” on this one.
[/quote]
I’m 192 pounds at 5’10 , these phtoes where at 180. I squat 565# at 192. My physique is clearly more impressive than yours and my numbers are higher. If the level of physiue development is directly proportional to “Troll” Status, than you are more a troll than I.[/quote]
lol, what does your alleged squat have to do with shoulder training?[/quote]
Or my body stats for that matter, that comment was clearly not related to the topic, it was stab at T3hPwnisher.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
After seeing the photos, I’m also calling “troll” on this one.
[/quote]
I’m 192 pounds at 5’10 , these phtoes where at 180. I squat 565# at 192. My physique is clearly more impressive than yours and my numbers are higher. If the level of physiue development is directly proportional to “Troll” Status, than you are more a troll than I.[/quote]
lol, what does your alleged squat have to do with shoulder training?[/quote]
Or my body stats for that matter, that comment was clearly not related to the topic, it was stab at T3hPwnisher. [/quote]
dude your talking in absolutes though by standing your point of view is better or more accurate than what others are. There aren’t many absolutes in life (death and taxes) what works for you may not work for someone else that doesn’t mean your opinion is more acurate than someone elses. Isn’t the reason why you started this post in your exact words to share opinions or thoughts (somethink like that)
As far as taking a stab at T3hPwnisher well thats just your age i guess but quick question how do you know your so much more awesome than T3hPwnisher ?
