roc, a refeed is part of an integrated approach. There are a lot of variable. You have to get your diet dialed in and working for you, along with cardio and a weightlifting program. Everything works together.
There are many ways to do a refeed. I would recommend that you start searching the forum where you’ll get a pretty good idea of the value and the many ways you can conduct one. Also, I’d recommend that you search the 'Net. Lyle McDonald made himself famous with different variations of ketogenic diets – the CKD (Cyclical Ketogenic Diet) and the TKD (Targeted Ketogenic Diet). His diets either required a refeed or refilling glycogen stores around the time you work out.
Refeeds, cheat meals, strategic carb refeeds – different purposes, different goals. They’re all worth reading about and all useful (and not counterproductive) when properly integrated into your diet.
Just quickly in answer to your question, a cheat meal (or day) isn’t going to hamper your progress if your carbs and/or calories run low through the week. In fact, it’s highly beneficial, boosting thyroid hormone producting and leptin levels and refilling glycogen stores. It’s a huge topic. Start reading, searchin’ and researchin’. (grin)
I take it no one is going to correct me, which would indicate to me that this is in fact what you’re doing in terms of exercise.
I am not surprised you’re not dropping weight unfortunately.
This amount of exercise is completely unnecessary for fat loss. Sadly, more exercise does not make up for an improperly designed diet.
I understand where Terry is coming from in the approach, since it’s pretty similar for everyone. However, I’ll disagree with the advice to add even more exercise. Your diet needs more refining.
Ok, let me get this straight. You’re doing 45 mins of cardio seven mornings per week, training every other day with weights, and now doing HIIT on the evenings of your off days, which is 3-4 days per week?
No not at this stage I am not, Just the morning cardio and every other day with weights.
I don’t find this to be all that demanding at 60-65% MHR and ABBH due to the relatively low volume.
Additionally I use my common-sense and if I feel tired/overtrained I just stick to my diet and have a day off.
Great thread people! I would just like to add my 2 cents: it seems in my experience that hormones have a HUGE effect on the effectiveness of a fat loss program- namely cortisol and testosterone… Bow, have you had your T levels checked? I remember busting my ass on cardio and weights every day, reducing the calories more and more, feeling sluggish etc… i hit a brick wall for fat loss and got my t levels checked- they were dismally low. cortisol was probably high too… I’m not a “scientific” person but i do have 11 years of experience in tweaking my physique and it sounds like you need to back off the cardio and up your calories closer to 3000 for a week and go from there… give your body a chance to go “anabolic” for a while without putting on fat (trust me, you won’t at 3000 calories with TT’s recommendations and in your emaciated state) then you can drop to 2500 and add a few days of HITT and be patient… I’'m sure you would rather reach 10% BF in this manner, eating more and keeping more muscle. You have the drive and the means to get there and i don’t want to confuse you or anything, but that’s MY EXPERIENCE talking, thats all… Good Luck!
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It’s all pretty confusing but I guess because there is no absolute “right” way to lose fat. [/quote]
VERY true. This is my problem with cookie cutter diets.
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It is good to get some other points of view though despite it muddying the waters somewhat. [/quote]
It is in fact good to do so, but you can’t have too many captains. If you commit to someone’s assistance, your best bet is to stick it out 100%, or switch it up and try another approach. Giving a program/dietary theology 75% is neither fair to the dieter or the person assisting them.
You obviously already know this.
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I do worry about hanging around in starvation mode for too long but figure that my higher protein/fat intake would stop most of the ill effects. [/quote]
Unfortunately, no it won’t. Total energy intake, and arguably more important, the caloric deficit created is what is going to protect you.
Tampa-Terry: First, let me start off by saying how impressed I am that you have taken as much time as you have to help this person design a diet, workout plan, and answer follow up questions. Kudos to you!
Secondly, I was wondering why you recommended a hypertrophy program like ABBH instead of a program like Fat to Fire or Meltdown? I would think there would be recovery issues using the ABBH program since calories are below maintenance. Just curious.
John, good question. It goes against the norm, I know. The goal with T-Bow is not so much to lose scale weight as it is to drop his BF%; i.e., increase LBM while dropping BF.
Even though the diet is hypocaloric (below maintenance calories (or supposed to be once we’ve got it tweaked)), PWO nutrition is optimized. Pretty much all carbs are coming in PWO and Surge is being used, too. Additionally, the volume of ABBH is reasonable. Chad Waterbury designed it for people with recovery issues.
I’ve used his program and HST, both with good results, while cutting and restricting carbs. However, I will say that my approach to cutting does not involve a huge/severe caloric deficit. I don’t believe either program would work well if PWO nutrition were not optimized and/or if there were a huge/severe caloric deficit.
I know this goes against pretty much all the other post on weight this time of year, but, I actually lost a few lbs over the past week.
I am out of town for the holidays and decided to leave the food log and training back at home for a rest. Seems every time I dont log my intake I get conservative and loose weight, and fairly quickly. I imagine if I were to do this longer than a week or so I would wither down to nothing. This even with a huge cheat day on Christmas. Mounds of junk, pie, stuffing, rolls, snacks, etc… But hey, even after that I am down a lb or two.
I guess I can hypercaloric diet for a while longer on my return home in search of the ever elusive lbm.
T - good post so far. Don’t sweat a little holiday indulgence. Just get back on the train ASAP and you’ll be alright. TT has provided you with some amazing information in this thread - you should be dropping the fat in no time. Best of luck
“All in all I ate/drank pretty much all the wrong things in the wrong combinations and quantities and I am still pretty much going.”
'Bow, my man, you’re slaying me. Although I understand that the holidays are the hardest time of the year for someone to maintain a clean & strict diet, you’re really gonna derail things with this approach. After all that TT’s done for you within the confines of this mongo thread, I’m a little disappointed with your last post.
You’re still “going”??!??!?
Is that the sound of a trainwreck I hear in the distance?
TheBow, I thought long and hard about this as it just so happens that I’m starting a program similar to you right during the holidays. I pondered over whether I would start now or just wait until the holidays are over, and then decided that I can wait no longer. One of the reasons was that I have so much time now to get used to tracking food, measuring portions etc. that it was advantageous for me to go now.
Having said that I am helping deal with any holiday temptations by avoiding a lot of the parties going on. Of course, you don’t have to do it that way, but my whole thoughts is I’ll sacrifice them now, and if I do well after months of strictness, maybe I’ll have earned a week’s vacation in the summer. I just didn’t want to spend two more weeks of going up and down after having so many weeks like that this year. This is actually a restart for me…I was dieting a few years ago and was down to mid-teens for bf% and let it all go, so the way I look at it, I just had a two year break of holiday eating, and regardless of what the date is now, it’s over for me.
Of course, this is just me…you may want to relax and enjoy these weeks and get back on it after New Year’s. It depends on where you want to be after these two weeks. Another option if you’re doing t-dawg is to move your weekend refeed to the day of Christmas/New Year…sure you may go over the six hour time limit, but at least you’d have it locked down to one bad day for the week.
Hey, there, T-Bow!!! Man, I’ve got to teach you how to fall off the wagon and do a holiday up right! Myself, I was dieting, but my 1.5 refeed days ended up falling on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. It was my best refeed weight gain ever at a healthy 8.2 pounds!!!
One of my favorite topics, being an avid student/follower of refeeds, is “What’s the most you ever ate on your refeed?” But we’ll save that for another thread. (grin)
On the question of kickstarting for the post-Xmas period would it be worth trying some Tribex-500?
I don’t remember your age off the top of my head, T-Bow. It’s a great supp for guys over the age of 35. And if your T levels are suppressed, yes, it’s a bang up supplement even if you’re under the age of 35; highly effective at raising T levels. Have you considered getting a blood test?
Raising T levels will help you put on muscle. You’ll also feel more full of yourself, stronger, more intense, better workouts, etc.
As it relates to fat storage, you’re talking about (too) high estrogen levels, which are associated with fat gain; men and women, both.
It’s definitely worth a one-bottle test. Most people see a difference (if there is one) in about a week.
I have been busting my ass for a month with nothing much to show for it.
(see - means this means humour, don’t get cranky!)