ooops,
No milk, all good then. Whey protein powder mixed in with water then?
Sorry for the dumb question.
Nope, I’m a firm believer that there is no such thing as a dumb question. Actually, I’m glad you asked. It’s an important detail.
For my milk substitute I use LC Grow, add water and Splenda, just a small amount of salt and maybe some cinnamon. Served cold (i.e., mixed with an ice cube), it tastes WONDERFUL with something like Kashi cereal. I, of course, use Grow, but you can use the protein powder of your choice if availability is a problem.
And seriously, if you have more questions, please don’t hesitate to ask. That’s what the forum is all about.
Bow…
A couple of things about low-carb diets:
They work.
They have drawbacks.
I lost a bunch of fat on my Atkins adventure, but I gained some decent muscle and dropped a few waist sizes. I also got significant nods of approval from the women-folk, and saw my abs for the first time . Yay!
The bad news is that ultra low-carb dieting is not ideal for muscle & strength gains. It can also make you ‘fog-headed’ and sick. As I stated above, you can still get stronger and bigger on a low-carb diet…I certainly did! However, you will not be as strong as you would otherwise be, and you will not get as big either. And you still need to eat 6 or more times per day.
I split the difference. I was on the Atkins diet until I basically met my fat-loss goals, and then I realized that I was just too damn small for my liking. So, I’ve been eating Massive style, and getting great results in the strength/size department. I also gained back some fat. The whole experience taught me that I will always need to keep Carbs down low (between 100-150g per day) to avoid getting fat, and that my Workout/Post Workout Surge and 2nd PWO meal are imperative for significant progress.
Don’t fret about it…if you can handle a slower march to your goals, you can do either T-Dawg 2.0 or Berardi’s plans. If you need significant fat loss quickly, go low-carb (no cheats) and stay in ketosis for at least 2 weeks. Probably longer, if you’re closer to 20% BF. It will be worth the effort, I promise.
Either way, you’ll reach your goals. Really.
Good Luck!
PS: Yogurt isn’t necessarily a high carb food, but it ain’t low-carb either. Neither are Mangos and most fruit. Same for Milk. If you are too sensitive to these types of carbs, then they can definately be slowing you down on the current diet.
LJ,
I think lower carb rather than a pure keto diet suits me better. I am more interseting in getting a lifestyle in order with the gain naturally flowing on from there.
A quick fix diet like fat fast or atkins isn’t going to teach me a lot and my life’s not that good that it can stand lots more crappy stuff 
I am happy to be losing for a longer time if it’s going to lead to long term leaness rather than a short term loss of fat.
Lets face it carbs and stuff are enjoyable to eat so I’d rather have them integrated into my life.
As for milk I’m weaning myself off that go go the macchiato or short black rather than lattes now.
Yoghurt+seeds in the morning is possibly not the best choice but it’s better thn 3 peices of white bread with butter and vegemite + a latte that I was having previously…Hmmm, wonder why I am over 25% bf
Why only PWO nutrition for workouts and not for my cycling/cardio? Seems like my cycling workouts are fairly intense and possibly catabolic afterwards?
You mentioned Chad waterbury’s training methods. Are you talking his anti-bodybuilding program?
Good questions, T-Bow, and still on topic!
If your goal is to burn fat and protect (and possibly add to) LBM, then everything needs to be run through that filter. If it helps you achieve your goals, you’ll do it, eat it or not eat it. If it requires effort, you’ll put out that effort. If it requires restraint, then exhibiting restraint becomes the name of the game.
Okay, now with that out of the way, (grin), let’s talk about cardio.
There are two types of cardio that are complementary (for different reasons) to fat loss. Longer duration (45 minutes to 1 hour), low-to-moderate intensity (65-75% of MHR) only burns a few calories. NBD, right?
Not really. The real benefit is that it raises an enzyme called Hormone Sensitive Lipase which is the rate-limiting enzyme responsible for mobilization of stored body fat. That enzyme remains elevated until you spike insulin or for roughly 12 hours if you don’t spike insulin. In other words, you just put yourself into fat burning mode (so long as you’re not eating in excess of maintenance).
The other type of cardio that yields great fat burning benefits is High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). It burns some serious calories, along with a whole host of other benefits. The trick to HIIT is to keep it SHORT and sweet, less than 20 minutes. You’re talking about intervals. Depending on who you talk to, the intervals are done with different ratios: 30 seconds HIGH, 90 seconds low, or 1 minute HIGH, 1 minute low/slow for recovery.
If you’re talking about high(er) intensity, long(er) duration, the negatives start outweighing the positives; i.e., cortisol levels rise and your hard-earned muscle is chewed up to provide the brain with glucose.
Remember, T-Bow, do what is required to achieve your goals. Sometimes that even means doing LESS.
So in answer to your question, if you’re playing by the (cardio) rules, you don’t need Surge. Surge will spike insulin and kick you out of fat burning mode. PWO, however, Surge is critical to preserving LBM.
Re your question about Chad Waterbury’s programs, yes, Anti-BodyBuilding Hypertrophy (ABBH) is one of his programs. He designs programs that take full advantage of compound multi-joint exercises and is an excellent choice for anyone who has problems with recovery.
If you’d like a list of all of Chad’s programs, check out my post in the Tips & Tech Support Forum called “Enhanced/Advanced Searches on T-Mag.”
Questions? (grin)
Technically HSL is stimulated by glucagon and epinephrine, which both oppose insulin. Both types or cardio therefore can increase HSL.
okay,
I thought I understood all that but Thunder has confused me again.
But for the purposes of this “dieting for Dummies” approach I guess I should pick one style of cardio and go with it right?
So what’s going to more effecitive…the 20 min sessions or the longer say 45mins-1 hour? Obviuosly the 20 mins session is time effective but I am running into a mental barrier in regards to short sessions.
I am running into a mental barrier in regards to short sessions.
I’m very familiar with the “more is better” mindset. (grin) Unfortunately, it’s rarely the case.
Go back and forth between the longer duration moderate intensity cardio sessions and doing HIIT for 20 minutes. When you do HIIT, go all out and with all the intensity you can handle. You should be happy to quit at 20 minutes. (grin)
Alright,
shopping is done, now all I need to do is plan my meals and settle on a workout for the 4 weeks that I plan to do this for.
The dietry requirements you gave me are the same for women right, just scaled down for lower body weight?My GF is keen to try it out as well over the same period.
T-Bow, protein & fat requirements are based on LBM. You and she can follow the same carb recommendations.
Fresh/organic is always better, but don’t hesitate to use frozen veggies. The carb count on the bag is always convenient.
Don’t forget to subtract fiber from total carbs. You get more veggies that way, and fiber doesn’t “count.”
TT, I would like to say thanks for taking the time to distribute the knowledge you have in such a manner, I have been reading the boards for almost a year now, a lot of different personalities contribute, but it is class like yours that make a person stay involved and by the way good luck Bow
Thanks, Splinter! I’ve always believed that people need to understand why they’re doing something (or not) before they can commit to a new concept. And in the beginning, while we’re still learning how our bodies respond, a certain amount of precision re recommendations is required.
And look how it’s working out. T-Bow is taking what he learned and helping his girlfriend put together a program. Does it get any better?!?! (grin)
Where do people get this idea that fiber doesn’t count and that 100% of it passes through you providing no calories?
Hi,
Yeah that goes double for me, I’m fairly disciplined and ready to go now for the next 4 weeks.
Chad waterbury’s Anti-bodybuilding will be the workout and Tdawg 2.0 the diet.
What was interesting was when we went through my partners diet. There was absolutely no way she would have been meeting the protein requirements on the amount and type of foods she eats currently.
Anyway we should get that fixed up this week and see how here results compare to mine. She has always been able to strip fat of farily easily when she gets off her butt so I’ll post the results in a couple of weeks.
Thanks again.
You’re most welcome T-Bow. I look forward to hearing how it goes. It’s cool that you and your girlfriend are doing this together.
Re the fiber, Thunder’s belief is that it is incorrect to subtract all of the fiber grams, that fiber does not go through you without providing any calories or energy. He believes that half of the fiber should be subtracted because some of the fiber is fermented by colonic bacteria, making short-chain fatty acids which contribute energy to the body.
I take a different position on the subject, however. Based on my studies, there is no regulatory or scientific consensus about soluble fiber’s calorific value. It is a complex polysaccharide, primarily indigestible to both humans and animals, not degraded in the intestine, but fermented in the colon under the influence of microorganisms.
Despite a range of animal studies, there are no usable data for humans which can quantify the utilizable energy of soluble fiber. Estimates in the literature from animal experiments vary from 0 to 4 kcal/g. After certain allowances are made for the energy losses from volatile and gaseous fermentation products, an upper level of 2 kcal/g for rats has been set.
The situation in man is demonstrably different, with greatly reduced amounts of such products, and the need to adapt for varying periods before soluble fiber is attacked by colonic bacteria.
Based on present scientific knowledge only an arbitrary value can be used for regulatory purposes.
For that reason (and for simple convenience) I will continue to recommend that fiber be subtracted from total carbs.
Yep,
I put together some meal plans and strangely enough I reckon I’ll have trouble meeting the 70-100gms of total carbs per day.
I’ll possibly be able to eat stuff like sweet potatoes etc in moderation up to my quota.
One thing I have noticed is that I am a bit over on gms of protein but still looking good as for fats and carbs.
Do I still need to cut back and get that protein around the 192 gms - currently on target for 230 gms? I can cut out a scoop or two of protein shake if this is the case but that may mess with my PWO drink.
I’ll possibly be able to eat stuff like sweet potatoes etc in moderation up to my quota.
You’re free to go very-low to no carbs all day and take in all of your carbs PWO. I would recommend saving your starchier carbs (brown rice, sweet potatoes, oatmeal) for the first whole food P+C meal following your workout (the one after Surge). This is an ideal/optimal time for (and general approach to) taking in carbs.
One thing I have noticed is that I am a bit over on gms of protein but still looking good as for fats and carbs. Do I still need to cut back and get that protein around the 192 gms - currently on target for 230 gms? I can cut out a scoop or two of protein shake if this is the case but that may mess with my PWO drink.
Try and get as close to your 32g per meal as possible, but in reality, you’ll run high on some meals and low on others. Try getting a digital postal scale (about $30) that weighs in grams and tenths of an ounce, both. It allows for greater precision.
Your PWO drink is the most important meal of the whole day. Don’t mess with that meal. Adjust any of the others, so as to more nearly hit your numbers.
And remember, “close” is a whole lot better than what you were doing. “Close” is probably good enough in the beginning, while you’re getting comfortable with keeping a food log and eating to meet numbers. Down the road, as weight loss slows, you may need to get more precise.
You’re doing great, T-Bow!!!
Great,
My workouts are late afternoon about 1/2 an hour before dinner so that makes things nice and easy.
Workout, PWO and then P+C meal with most of my carbs.
I actually overcalculated and I am spot on with the protein count - I doubled up a quantity on fitday.com which pushed me over.
So at this stage everything is tracking well and hopefully I’ll have some significant progress to report in 2 weeks time.
If you really want to lose fat do what i did. 6 meals, very high protein, moderate fat (healthy fat, no bacon etc,…) and no carbs. I lost 7 pounds in 3 weeks. Gained back 1 or 2 but, 5 lbs of fat is real good in 3 weeks.
Yep,
that’s the plan so far. Folling the TDawg 2.0 diet to the letter.
First day and so far so good