Should an Ectomorph Train Differently?

Training Bodybuilding
61

On reflection, I retract my previous statement to there are no shortcuts :wink:

Seriously though, you are right. And once a trainee reaches a certain level things become so much more sophisticated and individualized, in addition, what may work for one prep may not work for another. The body is an amazing, adaptive and ever evolving and thing.

I think the point I was probably trying to make is that so much progress can be made by keeping things simple, probably more than we realise, and that by nature we all love to complicate matters and delve into the specifics and micromanagement. However, granted, When we get to elite standards its a different ballgame.

And excellent work with your guys by the way mateā€¦

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

So Iā€™m sorry Dave (as I respect you a lot from our PM conversation) but whilst I think your overall message is the right one (i.e. work hard above all else), to say there are no secrets or tricks, is just disingenuous.

Iā€™m sure you have heard of the infamous ā€˜diesel weaselā€™? Dude works hard (at least, on the vids I have seen). But thatā€™s about all he got. His technique is appalling and his physique is nothing to write home about. I reckon if he learn to apply some ā€˜secretsā€™, he would look and feel better with a VASTLY reduced injury potential.

Maybe if you had said ā€œthere are no shortcuts, only hard workā€ I could agree with you.

BBB
[/quote]

62

I wish I was an ectomorph. :frowning:
but I guess the grass is always greener on the ā€œother sideā€.
I wish I was a little bit taller.
I wish I was a ballerā€¦

63

Thinking about this also though, by nature, and probably due to the whole host of body image issues that exist in the sport, a lot of bodybuilders do typecast themselves as being either skinny, or fat, or even both, regardless of their current bodysize or leaness.

Itsā€™ inherent to the sport, we all want to improve our bodies, we invest countless hours training, cooking, eating; we become consumed by this and we become completely immersed in it all. Yet, for those that do develop impressive physiques, many still see themselves as being the skinny kid or the fat guy, and never really get away from that distorted self image that develops.

We see it all the time, those that were skinny never feel big enough, those that were fat always want to diet down and remain as lean as possible.

The whole self image, ecto, endo crap is inherent to all of this, for most, it is what makes them start this all in the first place. Bodybuilding something that we do because of some inherent insecurity and drive to improve ourselves.

Is it right / wrong to do it? I donā€™t really know, we do it, and for some its a huge driving factor for self improvement. I guess for others it could be seen as an excuse for failure, but for some, a driving factor for success.

64

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
cyruseven75 wrote:

good luck dingle berry, remember water is for pussies!

I donā€™t get posts like this - the guy asked a legitimate question - why mock him?

I mean, being in this game a long time, I think itā€™s easy to become jaded and think that everyone that asks a question like this should know better, but realize that many people really donā€™t know.

Theyā€™re not trolling, they donā€™t deserve to be verbally abused - they just truly donā€™t know about this stuff - even the basics. So, Iā€™d think it would be more beneficial to everyone involved to either give some decent advice, or just donā€™t say anything at allā€¦ [/quote]

ā€¦But that wouldnā€™t be hardcore!

65

After reading this discussion, it seems to me that instead of classifying oneself and planning oneā€™s training/diet based on that, one should find out what training/diet works for oneself before considering which category one belongs to, since one would have accumulated sufficient knowledge and evidence to do so by then.

However, since one would have already discovered what works, the classification would be largely useless to oneself, so weā€™re back to the original message of eat-hard-work-more.

66

When I didnā€™t eat enough, I ws an ectomorph.

When I began bulking and ate too much crap, I was an endomorph.

Now Iā€™ve finally started to understand how my body works, I am a mesomorph.

I really do not see any helpful application for this somatotype theory in the persuit of bodybuilding. The goal is always to train hard and eat accordingly, ecto, meso, or endo. Everyone will always be a mix of somatotypes, which questions the usefulness of the entire system. Whilst extremes exist, I would argue that these extremes are reached almost entirely by lifestyle choices. Genetics obviously play a big part across a population, but when looking at a particular individual, it is always the same choices which seem to make someone ā€œmore endomorphicā€ or ā€œmore ectomorphicā€.

67

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
When I didnā€™t eat enough, I ws an ectomorph.

When I began bulking and ate too much crap, I was an endomorph.

Now Iā€™ve finally started to understand how my body works, I am a mesomorph.

I really do not see any helpful application for this somatotype theory in the persuit of bodybuilding. The goal is always to train hard and eat accordingly, ecto, meso, or endo. Everyone will always be a mix of somatotypes, which questions the usefulness of the entire system. Whilst extremes exist, I would argue that these extremes are reached almost entirely by lifestyle choices. Genetics obviously play a big part across a population, but when looking at a particular individual, it is always the same choices which seem to make someone ā€œmore endomorphicā€ or ā€œmore ectomorphicā€. [/quote]

Agreed. There was a time when carbs were way overdone in my diet. I was described as an ā€œendomorphā€ā€¦after growing up as a skinny kid who would be described as an ectomorph (trust me, you guys havenā€™t seen my skinniest picture from 8th grade). Every time I lean up more, I am suddenly some ā€œgenetically gifted mesomorphā€.

Conclusion: These somatypes are largely useless, just like the overuse of the term ā€œhardgainerā€. If you are skinny, chances are, there is a very good reason for it even if you do claim to eat all of the time (like all of you do). If you grew up as a fat kid who sat around playing video games and eating junk all day, do yourself a favor and avoid the labels until you actually train hard for a couple of years and understand what makes your body perform better.

68

[quote]younggully wrote:
I think the question should be, should different people train differently? and the answer is yes. Itā€™s not really about how an ectomorph or endomorph should train. Itā€™s more about how each individual should. For instance some guy like barbell bench more then dumbell etc. At the end of the day itā€™s about finding what movements work for YOUR body and yield you the best results.[/quote]

Thereā€™s an element of truth to that, but newbies do not need that advice. They need to train the basic movements (squat, DL, bench, press, pull-ups) and progress in the amount of weight they lift each and every time. Only after theyā€™ve done that for a significant period of time and moved into intermediate strength levels will they know enough about the iron to start playing around with things.

They also need to figure out how to eat, which at a basic level involves consuming adequate protein and sufficient calories to grow.

Most of these guys are never moving out of a beginning level of strength, and that is sad. Then they move onto gear because theyā€™re not progressing and then stagnating on that also. That is even more sad.

69

Your current size/shape might not dictate what somatype you fit into, but to deny that anyone with the same life style, training the same way, eating the same way would look the same is putting your head in the sand.

I could eat less and ā€˜betterā€™ than my brother growing up and get very fat while you could see his ribs, and I was no less active than he was; actually I hit the weights harder and more often than he did when we got out first 110lb weight bench as young teens.

He had a sweet tooth and his favorite food was macaroni and cheese by the box with hotdogs, while I was eating tuna fish sandwiches on wheat bread. His only source of protein was mostly from hot dogs and whatever heā€™d get from pasta and meat sauce.

My father is 6ā€™ 180lbs and my mother is 4ā€™10" and over 230lbs last time she told anyone. My brother looks like a rail like my father, and Iā€™ve always had trouble keeping fat off when trying to add muscle.

I highly doubt our training and eating habits were the only thing making us look the way we do.

70

[quote]SWR wrote:
Your current size/shape might not dictate what somatype you fit into, but to deny that anyone with the same life style, training the same way, eating the same way would look the same is putting your head in the sand.

I could eat less and ā€˜betterā€™ than my brother growing up and get very fat while you could see his ribs, and I was no less active than he was; actually I hit the weights harder and more often than he did when we got out first 110lb weight bench as young teens.

He had a sweet tooth and his favorite food was macaroni and cheese by the box with hotdogs, while I was eating tuna fish sandwiches on wheat bread. His only source of protein was mostly from hot dogs and whatever heā€™d get from pasta and meat sauce.

My father is 6ā€™ 180lbs and my mother is 4ā€™10" and over 230lbs last time she told anyone. My brother looks like a rail like my father, and Iā€™ve always had trouble keeping fat off when trying to add muscle.

I highly doubt our training and eating habits were the only thing making us look the way we do. [/quote]

So what? Iā€™ve mentioned it before but I had a roommate who could eat nothing but cheeseburgers and pizza all week long and maintain a ripped 235lbs without even lifting much. Does that mean jack shit when it comes to me? Does that mean my genetics are sub-par because I donā€™t stay ripped like that at all times?

You train the way you need to in order to see results. These labels donā€™t mean much of anything.

Every fucker who couldnā€™t see his abs was calling themselves an FFB a couple of years agoā€¦as if lifestyle had nothing to do with it. Does it make some of you feel like you belong to jump into some category?

71

[quote]Professor X wrote:

So what? Iā€™ve mentioned it before but I had a roommate who could eat nothing but cheeseburgers and pizza all week long and maintain a ripped 235lbs without even lifting much. Does that mean jack shit when it comes to me? Does that mean my genetics are sub-par because I donā€™t stay ripped like that at all times?

You train the way you need to in order to see results. These labels donā€™t mean much of anything.

Every fucker who couldnā€™t see his abs was calling themselves an FFB a couple of years agoā€¦as if lifestyle had nothing to do with it. Does it make some of you feel like you belong to jump into some category?[/quote]

If you use the fact that youā€™re going to have to train/eat differently once you found what category you fit in to reach your goals, is that bad?

I ate like a ā€˜hard gainerā€™ before, and got fat and strong, trying to convince myself thatā€™s what I needed to do to gain muscle. And when I say fat, I mean much fatter than any picture I posted in my profile.

Working with CT, in only a monthā€™s time, I got stronger, looked leaner (even after coming off of my own 22 week fat loss training), and looked more muscular.

I agree people need to train the way they need to, to get results.

I think the difference is how they use their own feedback to tell them whatā€™s working and whatā€™s not. The feedback an ectomorph would get will be different than the feeback an endomorph will get.

If they both use their own feedback and train accordingly, yea I guess you can say, in a way, theyā€™re training the same because theyā€™re both training based on how their own body is reacting, but what they actually do and eat, to get the same looking body can be very different.

72

[quote]SWR wrote:

If you use the fact that youā€™re going to have to train/eat differently once you found what category you fit in to reach your goals, is that bad?[/quote]

Wait, why would I need a category for this again? Oh, thatā€™s rightā€¦I DONā€™T.

73

[quote]Professor X wrote:
SWR wrote:

If you use the fact that youā€™re going to have to train/eat differently once you found what category you fit in to reach your goals, is that bad?

Wait, why would I need a category for this again? Oh, thatā€™s rightā€¦I DONā€™T.

[/quote]

For my own obsessive statistical purposes!
I want to categorize everyone! :wink: