Shorter Workouts, More Size, Greater Strength

Training
61

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Also, 10% bodyfat will cause a person to be bouyant in water, and I sink like a rock. [/quote]

This is untrue. The lighter you are in body weight, the more bouyant you are all by itself.

One sinks until the density of the surrounding water equals one’s density,

The volume of air in your lungs changes with the surrounding pressure too.
[/quote]
The test is done after an exhale.[/quote]

I understand that. However, being “10%” itself does not affect bouyancy because there are too many other variables.

In fact, that number itself means nothing at all as far as any constant response seen.

As far as yourself, you look fine…and the exact number you are is irrelevant.[/quote]
Bone density is a big factor in sinking isn’t it?[/quote]
A hydrostatic test is not much difference than bouyance, as it is measuring water weight displacement. Also, bone density can only be changed very slightly with exercize, lifting, ect.

62

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
A hydrostatic test is not much difference than bouyance, as it is measuring water weight displacement. Also, bone density can only be changed very slightly with exercize, lifting, ect.[/quote]

I linked tests before that have shown significant differences in bone density just across racial borders…which again would affect buoyancy.

Over many years of training someone who gains upwards of 50lbs of solid muscle is going to drastically affect bone density…especially if this is done during growth in height.

Either way, that makes this a variable and not a constant.

63

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Also, 10% bodyfat will cause a person to be bouyant in water, and I sink like a rock. [/quote]

This is untrue. The lighter you are in body weight, the more bouyant you are all by itself.

One sinks until the density of the surrounding water equals one’s density,

The volume of air in your lungs changes with the surrounding pressure too.
[/quote]
The test is done after an exhale.[/quote]

I understand that. However, being “10%” itself does not affect bouyancy because there are too many other variables.

In fact, that number itself means nothing at all as far as any constant response seen.

As far as yourself, you look fine…and the exact number you are is irrelevant.[/quote]
Bone density is a big factor in sinking isn’t it?[/quote]
A hydrostatic test is not much difference than bouyance, as it is measuring water weight displacement. Also, bone density can only be changed very slightly with exercize, lifting, ect.[/quote]

The root of your argument was simply that a person at 10% bf or above would be buoyant, and because you are not buoyant, you must therefore be lower than 10% bf.

The Brodigal Son Who Hath Returned, Professor X, is pointing out the flaw in your logic by explaining that there are many other variables to consider. Somebody with high bone density and significant muscle mass may still sink at bf well above 10%, while another, slighter-boned, untrained individual at 10% bf may not.

You are correct that the ultimate issue is body density, but this point alone undermines your argument above, as reasonable people would agree that body density is affected by much more than bf % alone.

64

why…

65

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Also, 10% bodyfat will cause a person to be bouyant in water, and I sink like a rock. [/quote]

This is untrue. The lighter you are in body weight, the more bouyant you are all by itself.

One sinks until the density of the surrounding water equals one’s density,

The volume of air in your lungs changes with the surrounding pressure too.
[/quote]
The test is done after an exhale.[/quote]

I understand that. However, being “10%” itself does not affect bouyancy because there are too many other variables.

In fact, that number itself means nothing at all as far as any constant response seen.

As far as yourself, you look fine…and the exact number you are is irrelevant.[/quote]
Bone density is a big factor in sinking isn’t it?[/quote]
A hydrostatic test is not much difference than bouyance, as it is measuring water weight displacement. Also, bone density can only be changed very slightly with exercize, lifting, ect.[/quote]

The root of your argument was simply that a person at 10% bf or above would be buoyant, and because you are not buoyant, you must therefore be lower than 10% bf.

The Brodigal Son Who Hath Returned, Professor X, is pointing out the flaw in your logic by explaining that there are many other variables to consider. Somebody with high bone density and significant muscle mass may still sink at bf well above 10%, while another, slighter-boned, untrained individual at 10% bf may not.

You are correct that the ultimate issue is body density, but this point alone undermines your argument above, as reasonable people would agree that body density is affected by much more than bf % alone.[/quote]
You negate the accuracy of hydrostatic testing by your argument.

66

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Also, 10% bodyfat will cause a person to be bouyant in water, and I sink like a rock. [/quote]
This is not true.

If we have to use these numbers I would say I’m around 15% and I sink straight to the bottom.[/quote]

I also sink like a fucking rock.

67

2316×1914 665 KB

Disclaimer–taken about 2 hours ago, after lunch, not dehydrated, not oiled, no fancy lighting, and cold. I did 10 pullups and 10 pushups prior, but obviously that doesn’t get any reall pump going in the muscles. Also, hard to flex and pose (have never tried to pose before) and take a pic at the same time. Tried the timer on the camera some also.

68

2667×2014 831 KB

Disclaimer–taken about 2 hours ago, after lunch, not dehydrated, not oiled, no fancy lighting, and cold. I did 10 pullups and 10 pushups prior, but obviously that doesn’t get any reall pump going in the muscles. Also, hard to flex and pose (have never tried to pose before) and take a pic at the same time. Tried the timer on the camera some also.

69

3333×2489 1.24 MB

Disclaimer–taken about 2 hours ago, after lunch, not dehydrated, not oiled, no fancy lighting, and cold. I did 10 pullups and 10 pushups prior, but obviously that doesn’t get any reall pump going in the muscles. Also, hard to flex and pose (have never tried to pose before) and take a pic at the same time. Tried the timer on the camera some also.

70

4000×3000 2.2 MB

Disclaimer–taken about 2 hours ago, after lunch, not dehydrated, not oiled, no fancy lighting, and cold. I did 10 pullups and 10 pushups prior, but obviously that doesn’t get any reall pump going in the muscles. Also, hard to flex and pose (have never tried to pose before) and take a pic at the same time. Tried the timer on the camera some also.

71

4000×3000 2.26 MB

Disclaimer–taken about 2 hours ago, after lunch, not dehydrated, not oiled, no fancy lighting, and cold. I did 10 pullups and 10 pushups prior, but obviously that doesn’t get any reall pump going in the muscles. Also, hard to flex and pose (have never tried to pose before) and take a pic at the same time. Tried the timer on the camera some also.

72

No offense, but why does it matter what the number is so much to you?

No one has insulted your progress…and being that short will work for you as far as building proportion.

The biggest mistake a new trainer could make is basing their progress on their exact body fat percentage.

If the goal was to reach the top 10% of physiques on the planet, then I could see being worried much at all about the number…and then only on contest day.

You look fine. Why validate yourself by a number like that?

73 
Ecchastang, there is really no sense in arguing yourself into a corner here.  I'm sorry bud but you are somewhere between 9-11% bf in all likelihood.  The leaner one get's the more pronounced the visual effects of a low bf% become... and the seasoned/well-trained eye can easily evaluate this pretty accurately.
74

Echo Bro… You’re lean man. Who cares what your # is? Just let it go.

75

[quote]gregron wrote:
Echo Bro… You’re lean man. Who cares what your # is? Just let it go.[/quote]

It’s a bodyfat discussion Greg, nobody is letting shit go…evAR!

76

Fyi, you’re supposed to take your shoe off and hold it up. How else are we supposed to know the %?? Class of 2014, smh…

77

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Fyi, you’re supposed to take your shoe off and hold it up. How else are we supposed to know the %?? Class of 2014, smh…[/quote]
Man, I have super small feet, I don’t want to hold up a shoe.

78

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Also, 10% bodyfat will cause a person to be bouyant in water, and I sink like a rock. [/quote]

This is untrue. The lighter you are in body weight, the more bouyant you are all by itself.

One sinks until the density of the surrounding water equals one’s density,

The volume of air in your lungs changes with the surrounding pressure too.
[/quote]
The test is done after an exhale.[/quote]

I understand that. However, being “10%” itself does not affect bouyancy because there are too many other variables.

In fact, that number itself means nothing at all as far as any constant response seen.

As far as yourself, you look fine…and the exact number you are is irrelevant.[/quote]
Bone density is a big factor in sinking isn’t it?[/quote]
A hydrostatic test is not much difference than bouyance, as it is measuring water weight displacement. Also, bone density can only be changed very slightly with exercize, lifting, ect.[/quote]

The root of your argument was simply that a person at 10% bf or above would be buoyant, and because you are not buoyant, you must therefore be lower than 10% bf.

The Brodigal Son Who Hath Returned, Professor X, is pointing out the flaw in your logic by explaining that there are many other variables to consider. Somebody with high bone density and significant muscle mass may still sink at bf well above 10%, while another, slighter-boned, untrained individual at 10% bf may not.

You are correct that the ultimate issue is body density, but this point alone undermines your argument above, as reasonable people would agree that body density is affected by much more than bf % alone.[/quote]
You negate the accuracy of hydrostatic testing by your argument.[/quote]

No, I was simply pointing out that your buoyancy argument doesn’t work.

Furthermore, even hydrostatic testing is only an estimation, albeit more accurate than other methods. There is still appreciable error because of the things that have already been discussed; bone density, muscle mass, etc. It’s my understanding that it can be off by as much as 2-3%.

79

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Fyi, you’re supposed to take your shoe off and hold it up. How else are we supposed to know the %?? Class of 2014, smh…[/quote]
Man, I have super small feet, I don’t want to hold up a shoe. [/quote]

Haven’t you heard? Your BF % is directly proportional to the size of your feet.

80

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Fyi, you’re supposed to take your shoe off and hold it up. How else are we supposed to know the %?? Class of 2014, smh…[/quote]
Man, I have super small feet, I don’t want to hold up a shoe. [/quote]
Dude sick for climbing though.