I just hope the 2009 Mr Olympia dvd will have better lighting than 2008 did.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
porkpie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Why can’t “purists” let people theorize that it is INDEED substance abuse that’s ONE OF the factors?
Read IDs first post. Holy fuck.
They had completely different standards in the 60’s. No one was even trying to build legs up like people today. They didn’t even start to focus on that until the 80’s around the time that Tom Platz hit the scene. Like all things in bodybuilding, those who take things to an extreme help redefine the sport. To jump over all of that and blame “substance abuse” isn’t just short sighted, it takes away from the hard work of the guys competing today.
Most of the people even making these threads about how great guys were in the 60’s completely ignore current bodybuilding which is why Ronnie Coleman gets mentioned first when he isn’t even the current Mr. O…Dex is.
Interestingly Platz was around and ‘known’ from about 1975 (he started competing as an amateur in 1973) and turned pro in 1978, so i am guessing that you saying that legs weren’t prioritized until the 80’s is probably not completely accurate ?
Or better yet that you don’t have any personal knowledge of how things occurred. Platz didn’t start getting huge recognition for those massive quads (including many mag articles about them along with supplement endorsements) until the mid to late 80’s. I didn’t say that as soon as he started competing he changed development standards. [/quote]
Interesting you say this, i wonder if you actually just make things up at times ?
I have attempted to attach a picture of Tom Platz on the cover of a 1978 magazine, now to my mind those legs look pretty impressive to me ?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If a bodybuilder can trim his waist like has been seen on many pros lately, then abdominal protrusion is not the result of acromegaly. Most of you making these statements have never weighed over 250lbs. The amount of food it takes for someone to maintain that kind of size on a relatively lean physique is massive when compared to the diet of someone only 200lbs.
If you see a pic of Kai Greene in the off season and his stomach sticks out a little, you would have to be pretty naive to ignore the fact that the man eats several pounds of meat daily all day long in some attempt to blame GH.
Overall body structure is the other issue because to carry near 300lbs of mass on a frame that may be under 6 feet tall requires a wider waist for support. You don’t see anyone weighing 300lbs at 5’10" or shorter with a tiny wasp waist. That would look ridiculous.
While gh may actually be the cause in some cases, I doubt most of you who are most opinionated actually have the medical background to diagnose acromegaly from a picture.
Jean Pierre Fux was one who I truly believe had overgrowth of internal organs. Nasser el Sonbatty as well. However, anyone even focusing on the negative at this point when there have been so many clear improvements on the pro stage is just looking for shit to complain about.
A slightly protruding gut on someone north of 250lbs does NOT equal GH abuse alone.[/quote]
There is so much to agree with on this post, I hope people pay attention.
This is one of the first things you notice on guys when they start out training heavy, regularly, and properly with a good caloric excess diet…they thicken up through the mid-section. My take on this is the body building a level of support for the spine to help you tolerate the loading you are putting your body through.
But c’mon, of course you can diagnose anything just from a picture and guessing about what someone may or may not be taking…WTF do you need doctors for anymore anyway…
[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
What do I think the culprit is here for the mass monsters of today? HGH. The guys didn’t appear until the 80’s, which is right when HGH appeared and became mainstream among bodybuilders. HGH doesn’t just cause hypertrophy and hyperplasia with the skeletal muscle; it causes hypertrophy and hyperplasia in the smooth and even cardiac muscle cells. Hence the HGH gut. Also, just look at the bone structures on some of these guys. Their heads look completely different. Just look at Jay Cutler from when he was 18 until now. It’s freaky.
I doubt theres even a slight chance you will watch the Mr O this year but in the off chance that you do pay close attention to Jay Cutler. Tell me if you see the gut that he is apparently notorious for. Some people know where I am going with this but I know that most reading this already assume that Cutler will look exactly the same as he has in the past.
EVERYONE IN THE 2009 OLYMPIA USES hGH. NOT EVERYONE ON THE STAGE WILL HAVE A GUT.
And since you haven’t the slightest clue who’s using how much of what drug, your argument is pointless.
Jay does have a much larger gut than he had when he was younger. His isn’t quite as bad as others (think Dorian Yates), but there’s no way his waist is from “his blocky structure and thickly-muscled midsection.” Jay has also had structural changes in his face over the years. But don’t get hung up on my reference of Jay Cutler for I was only using him as an example and in no way saying that he is the poster-child of HGH.
And I follow the Olympia every year via pay per view (or internet like webcast) and have done so for many years. I’ve also reviewed and researched every year of the Olympia so don’t try to give your “argument” merit by trying to demerit my knowledge in a subject without actually fronting a sound reason for doing so.
Also, I agree that it’s probably true that everyone uses HGH in different amounts that contends for the Sandow granted in different doses, but regardless, you contradicted yourself in first making a claim of which you have no proof, then stating that I don’t have a clue of how much of what drug each bodybuilder is taking, which is true, but neither do you. It’s a simple case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Regardless, of course not everyone who uses HGH is going to have an HGH gut. HGH is not some outlier when it comes to drugs having different effects on different people where everyone is going to see the exact same effect from a certain drug. Everyone responds differently to different drugs or just doesn’t use enough HGH to induce the hyperplasia of smooth muscle tissue or change in facial structure as well as other bones prone to HGH’s effects.
Overall, my statement from my first post stands. My argument was that HGH has been a large factor in the evolution of the shape and size of bodybuilders. It’s naive and silly to think that statement of mine applies to all bodybuilders and is the only contributing factor to the changes in bodybuilders over the years. Anyhow, I openly welcome you to politely argue my statement and not attack the person.[/quote]
Nevermind my statement about you not watching the O. I just wanted to see if you were one of ‘those guys’. It’s good that you arent.
I dont think I’ve contradicted myself but maybe I’m not seeing what you are referring to directly. It’s difficult to spot one’s own mistakes.
I know for a fact that every single guy that qualifies and competes in the Mr O is using hGH. I have no idea how much, but that doesnt matter or affect my point. My point is that everyone uses GH but not everyone has a distended midsection. There is more to having a large abdominal circumference than hGH.
Jay Cutler is possibly the worst example to use of someone who has suffered from a GH gut. That guys hips (the bone structure) are wider than my shoulders. He’s just a very wide person. He simply doesn’t have the pretty bone structure (clavicle to hip width ratio) of someone like Victor Martinez or Dennis Wolf.
I’m glad you watch the show, so you will see how much smaller Jay’s waist will be now that he acknowledges that a small waist is a bigger factor in determining the winner. If his intestines did grow to the extent of causing a significantly larger midsection than it would unlikely that he’d be able to shrink his waist. That wont be the case though.
[quote]porkpie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
porkpie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Why can’t “purists” let people theorize that it is INDEED substance abuse that’s ONE OF the factors?
Read IDs first post. Holy fuck.
They had completely different standards in the 60’s. No one was even trying to build legs up like people today. They didn’t even start to focus on that until the 80’s around the time that Tom Platz hit the scene. Like all things in bodybuilding, those who take things to an extreme help redefine the sport. To jump over all of that and blame “substance abuse” isn’t just short sighted, it takes away from the hard work of the guys competing today.
Most of the people even making these threads about how great guys were in the 60’s completely ignore current bodybuilding which is why Ronnie Coleman gets mentioned first when he isn’t even the current Mr. O…Dex is.
Interestingly Platz was around and ‘known’ from about 1975 (he started competing as an amateur in 1973) and turned pro in 1978, so i am guessing that you saying that legs weren’t prioritized until the 80’s is probably not completely accurate ?
Or better yet that you don’t have any personal knowledge of how things occurred. Platz didn’t start getting huge recognition for those massive quads (including many mag articles about them along with supplement endorsements) until the mid to late 80’s. I didn’t say that as soon as he started competing he changed development standards.
Interesting you say this, i wonder if you actually just make things up at times ?
I have attempted to attach a picture of Tom Platz on the cover of a 1978 magazine, now to my mind those legs look pretty impressive to me ?
[/quote]
This is my last reply to you because it is clear by now you are just trolling…but Platz legs got much bigger than that by the mid 80’s. I am not sure why you are even arguing this. His legs are decently sized in that picture yet you think they are so massive as to stand out and get more bodybuilders focused on more size?
Bodybuilders who helped move the line towards more leg mass includes Platz and Phil Hill. There may be others but once Platz hit that gigantic size he was later known for (legs so big they stood about above all else) more people started moving towards that goal.
You are clearly someone who never researched this shit before recently yet are arguing for no reason. I guess you get off on following me around.
Have fun with that.
[quote]Anonymas wrote:
I prefer old school sprinters like Percy Williams to todays runners like Usain Bolt. Sprinters are just getting too fast now, theyve pushed it to far, they are so far away from the general population. I prefer people that run at a more “normal” pace.
Thats why I go onto lots of sprinting forums, and criticise Usains long legs and his super genetics, and show how much better Percy Williams was, because it makes me feel better about being a worthless cretin and not being able to improve my sprinting times by even 0.1s in the last year of training.[/quote]
LOL!
i think everyone should have there own goal on how they want to look and work up too it and not preach to everyone that this is the better then what everyone is else is trying to accomplish.but this is not what this thread was about all i wanted to know is how the old school bodybuilders had such little waists,because today the only bodybuilder i saw close to having it was dexter jackson.
[quote]xxxwtfxxx wrote:
Anonymas wrote:
I prefer old school sprinters like Percy Williams to todays runners like Usain Bolt. Sprinters are just getting too fast now, theyve pushed it to far, they are so far away from the general population. I prefer people that run at a more “normal” pace.
Thats why I go onto lots of sprinting forums, and criticise Usains long legs and his super genetics, and show how much better Percy Williams was, because it makes me feel better about being a worthless cretin and not being able to improve my sprinting times by even 0.1s in the last year of training.
LOL!
i think everyone should have there own goal on how they want to look and work up too it and not preach to everyone that this is the better then what everyone is else is trying to accomplish.but this is not what this thread was about all i wanted to know is how the old school bodybuilders had such little waists,because today the only bodybuilder i saw close to having it was dexter jackson.[/quote]
Dennis wolf, toney freeman, phil heath, melvin anthony, silvio samuel. And those are just guys competeing in the O.
You also have guys like Brandon Curry and co. coming up the ranks with impressive tapers.
youre welcome
As have been discussed before, the old school guys actually practiced the vacuum pose. Their waists were not that tiny.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
What do I think the culprit is here for the mass monsters of today? HGH. The guys didn’t appear until the 80’s, which is right when HGH appeared and became mainstream among bodybuilders. HGH doesn’t just cause hypertrophy and hyperplasia with the skeletal muscle; it causes hypertrophy and hyperplasia in the smooth and even cardiac muscle cells. Hence the HGH gut. Also, just look at the bone structures on some of these guys. Their heads look completely different. Just look at Jay Cutler from when he was 18 until now. It’s freaky.
I doubt theres even a slight chance you will watch the Mr O this year but in the off chance that you do pay close attention to Jay Cutler. Tell me if you see the gut that he is apparently notorious for. Some people know where I am going with this but I know that most reading this already assume that Cutler will look exactly the same as he has in the past.
EVERYONE IN THE 2009 OLYMPIA USES hGH. NOT EVERYONE ON THE STAGE WILL HAVE A GUT.
And since you haven’t the slightest clue who’s using how much of what drug, your argument is pointless.
Jay does have a much larger gut than he had when he was younger. His isn’t quite as bad as others (think Dorian Yates), but there’s no way his waist is from “his blocky structure and thickly-muscled midsection.” Jay has also had structural changes in his face over the years. But don’t get hung up on my reference of Jay Cutler for I was only using him as an example and in no way saying that he is the poster-child of HGH. And I follow the Olympia every year via pay per view and have done so for many years. I’ve also reviewed and researched every year of the Olympia so don’t try to give your “argument” merit by trying to demerit my knowledge in a subject without actually fronting a sound reason for doing so.
Also, I agree that it’s probably true that everyone uses HGH in different amounts that contends for the Sandow granted in different doses, but regardless, you contradicted yourself in first making a claim of which you have no proof, then stating that I don’t have a clue of how much of what drug each bodybuilder is taking, which is true, but neither do you. It’s a simple case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Regardless, of course not everyone who uses HGH is going to have an HGH gut. HGH is not some outlier when it comes to drugs having different effects on different people where everyone is going to see the exact same effect from a certain drug. Everyone responds differently to different drugs or just doesn’t use enough HGH to induce the hyperplasia of smooth muscle tissue or change in facial structure as well as other bones prone to HGH’s effects.
Overall, my statement from my first post stands. My argument was that HGH has been a large factor in the evolution of the shape and size of bodybuilders. It’s naive and silly to think that statement of mine applies to all bodybuilders and is the only contributing factor to the changes in bodybuilders over the years. Anyhow, I openly welcome you to politely argue my statement and not attack the person.
If a bodybuilder can trim his waist like has been seen on many pros lately, then abdominal protrusion is not the result of acromegaly. Most of you making these statements have never weighed over 250lbs. The amount of food it takes for someone to maintain that kind of size on a relatively lean physique is massive when compared to the diet of someone only 200lbs.
If you see a pic of Kai Greene in the off season and his stomach sticks out a little, you would have to be pretty naive to ignore the fact that the man eats several pounds of meat daily all day long in some attempt to blame GH.
Overall body structure is the other issue because to carry near 300lbs of mass on a frame that may be under 6 feet tall requires a wider waist for support. You don’t see anyone weighing 300lbs at 5’10" or shorter with a tiny wasp waist. That would look ridiculous.
While gh may actually be the cause in some cases, I doubt most of you who are most opinionated actually have the medical background to diagnose acromegaly from a picture.
Jean Pierre Fux was one who I truly believe had overgrowth of internal organs. Nasser el Sonbatty as well. However, anyone even focusing on the negative at this point when there have been so many clear improvements on the pro stage is just looking for shit to complain about.
A slightly protruding gut on someone north of 250lbs does NOT equal GH abuse alone.[/quote]
I realize that bodybuilders eat massive quantities of quality, gut-expanding food in the off-season and can lead to a distended stomach, and I’ve also weighed up to 270+ lbs. Though even on-stage (which is what I’m really focusing on, not off-season), after having dieted for 20 weeks, many bodybuilders remain with the distended look. These bodybuilders have not been consuming the gut-expanding quantities of food in 5 months. Are their guts still affected from the expansion of their stomachs even after all that time where their stomachs have been allowed to shrink?
As for waists, from a strict kinesiological standpoint, a 300-lb frame on a man taller than 5’10" would be harder to support than a 300-lb frame on a man that is shorter than 5’10" and would, by theory, require a wider waist in the taller man. This is due to the moment arm, which in this case is how high the overall mass reaches away from the waist; the taller man has to provide more force and energy to stabilize his upper body than a shorter man of the same size. If one tries holding a 20-ft pole that weighs 10 lbs straight up with one hand, and then tries holding 10-ft pole that weighs 10 lbs straight up with one hand, the 20-ft pole will require more force to stabilize. You get the idea. The height differences and strength required to stabilize them increase even more when the bodybuilder bends over for any sort of exercise, which they would be doing frequently.
Arnold was very top-heavy, and he was also tall. He may weigh the same as some bodybuilders of today that are quite shorter than him, but he still had a very small waist with a fantastic vacuum pose while the shorter guys have much larger waists in contest condition. In strict terms of kinesiology, Arnold has to apply more force to stabilize his upper body than the shorter guy, yet the shorter guys have, again, much larger waists. And, yes, we’re not going to see anyone anytime soon that’s 5’10" and weighs 300 lbs with a golden era-esque waistline, though that could very well be because it’s impossible to get up to that level of development without hGH unless that person has a serious lack of myostatin genes. Also, at 300 lbs @ 5’10" with a small waist, the extra 20 lbs or so around the waist that has been taken away would have to be displaced somewhere else in order to qualify for 300 lbs. This would be the ultimate X figure.
Now let’s upgrade it to the taller bodybuilders of today who can show up on stage at 296 lbs @ ungodly low bodyfat levels at 5’10" (not to mention any Ronnie Colemans ;)). Even so, I do not see how a bodybuilder is going to pack on more than a few inches or even an entire foot to his waist from holding an extra 30 - 40 lbs of mass on his upper body. I just don’t see the body responding so drastically to weight like that.
If this were true, could we expect all sumo wrestlers to have 4’ waists (assuming they leaned out to bodybuilding standards) due to the weigh that their bodies have supported. Actually, sumo wrestlers might be the perfect example though I’m certainly not positive on this issue. I’ve read many times on T-Nation that some sumo wrestlers beat out any bodybuilder in terms of muscle mass. What if one who was predetermined to have 300+ lbs of lean body mass on his frame at a height of 6 ft or less dieted down to bodybuilding contest body fat levels. What would his waist look like? Just speculation here.
What’s even more is that I’ve seen plenty of men weighing over 300 lbs who had not tiny waists, but chicken legs. Legs support and balance even more weight than the torso. If a bodybuilder has a large, distended waist while on stage, I would imagine that at least part of it would have to be from hGH.
In lieu of drugs, let’s not forget about the bodybuilders themselves like Haney, Platz, Yates, and Coleman that all set themselves apart from the rest of the crowd and caused everyone else to catch up in every aspect.
Just out of pure curiosity and ignorance, PX, what would be your tell-tale visual signs for a proper diagnosis of acromegaly? I recognize the visual symptoms of acromegaly as swelling of everything from hands, feet, organs, vocal cords (which would reflect on one’s voice as well) and heart to many facial features including ears, nose, lips, brow, and jaw.
Sorry for the long post, I’m bored.
[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
What do I think the culprit is here for the mass monsters of today? HGH. The guys didn’t appear until the 80’s, which is right when HGH appeared and became mainstream among bodybuilders. HGH doesn’t just cause hypertrophy and hyperplasia with the skeletal muscle; it causes hypertrophy and hyperplasia in the smooth and even cardiac muscle cells. Hence the HGH gut. Also, just look at the bone structures on some of these guys. Their heads look completely different. Just look at Jay Cutler from when he was 18 until now. It’s freaky.
I doubt theres even a slight chance you will watch the Mr O this year but in the off chance that you do pay close attention to Jay Cutler. Tell me if you see the gut that he is apparently notorious for. Some people know where I am going with this but I know that most reading this already assume that Cutler will look exactly the same as he has in the past.
EVERYONE IN THE 2009 OLYMPIA USES hGH. NOT EVERYONE ON THE STAGE WILL HAVE A GUT.
And since you haven’t the slightest clue who’s using how much of what drug, your argument is pointless.
Jay does have a much larger gut than he had when he was younger. His isn’t quite as bad as others (think Dorian Yates), but there’s no way his waist is from “his blocky structure and thickly-muscled midsection.” Jay has also had structural changes in his face over the years. But don’t get hung up on my reference of Jay Cutler for I was only using him as an example and in no way saying that he is the poster-child of HGH. And I follow the Olympia every year via pay per view and have done so for many years. I’ve also reviewed and researched every year of the Olympia so don’t try to give your “argument” merit by trying to demerit my knowledge in a subject without actually fronting a sound reason for doing so.
Also, I agree that it’s probably true that everyone uses HGH in different amounts that contends for the Sandow granted in different doses, but regardless, you contradicted yourself in first making a claim of which you have no proof, then stating that I don’t have a clue of how much of what drug each bodybuilder is taking, which is true, but neither do you. It’s a simple case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Regardless, of course not everyone who uses HGH is going to have an HGH gut. HGH is not some outlier when it comes to drugs having different effects on different people where everyone is going to see the exact same effect from a certain drug. Everyone responds differently to different drugs or just doesn’t use enough HGH to induce the hyperplasia of smooth muscle tissue or change in facial structure as well as other bones prone to HGH’s effects.
Overall, my statement from my first post stands. My argument was that HGH has been a large factor in the evolution of the shape and size of bodybuilders. It’s naive and silly to think that statement of mine applies to all bodybuilders and is the only contributing factor to the changes in bodybuilders over the years. Anyhow, I openly welcome you to politely argue my statement and not attack the person.
If a bodybuilder can trim his waist like has been seen on many pros lately, then abdominal protrusion is not the result of acromegaly. Most of you making these statements have never weighed over 250lbs. The amount of food it takes for someone to maintain that kind of size on a relatively lean physique is massive when compared to the diet of someone only 200lbs.
If you see a pic of Kai Greene in the off season and his stomach sticks out a little, you would have to be pretty naive to ignore the fact that the man eats several pounds of meat daily all day long in some attempt to blame GH.
Overall body structure is the other issue because to carry near 300lbs of mass on a frame that may be under 6 feet tall requires a wider waist for support. You don’t see anyone weighing 300lbs at 5’10" or shorter with a tiny wasp waist. That would look ridiculous.
While gh may actually be the cause in some cases, I doubt most of you who are most opinionated actually have the medical background to diagnose acromegaly from a picture.
Jean Pierre Fux was one who I truly believe had overgrowth of internal organs. Nasser el Sonbatty as well. However, anyone even focusing on the negative at this point when there have been so many clear improvements on the pro stage is just looking for shit to complain about.
A slightly protruding gut on someone north of 250lbs does NOT equal GH abuse alone.
I realize that bodybuilders eat massive quantities of quality, gut-expanding food in the off-season and can lead to a distended stomach, and I’ve also weighed up to 270+ lbs. Though even on-stage (which is what I’m really focusing on, not off-season), after having dieted for 20 weeks, many bodybuilders remain with the distended look. These bodybuilders have not been consuming the gut-expanding quantities of food in 5 months. Are their guts still affected from the expansion of their stomachs even after all that time where their stomachs have been allowed to shrink?
As for waists, from a strict kinesiological standpoint, a 300-lb frame on a man taller than 5’10" would be harder to support than a 300-lb frame on a man that is shorter than 5’10" and would, by theory, require a wider waist in the taller man. This is due to the moment arm, which in this case is how high the overall mass reaches away from the waist; the taller man has to provide more force and energy to stabilize his upper body than a shorter man of the same size. If one tries holding a 20-ft pole that weighs 10 lbs straight up with one hand, and then tries holding 10-ft pole that weighs 10 lbs straight up with one hand, the 20-ft pole will require more force to stabilize. You get the idea. The height differences and strength required to stabilize them increase even more when the bodybuilder bends over for any sort of exercise, which they would be doing frequently.
Arnold was very top-heavy, and he was also tall. He may weigh the same as some bodybuilders of today that are quite shorter than him, but he still had a very small waist with a fantastic vacuum pose while the shorter guys have much larger waists in contest condition. In strict terms of kinesiology, Arnold has to apply more force to stabilize his upper body than the shorter guy, yet the shorter guys have, again, much larger waists. And, yes, we’re not going to see anyone anytime soon that’s 5’10" and weighs 300 lbs with a golden era-esque waistline, though that could very well be because it’s impossible to get up to that level of development without hGH unless that person has a serious lack of myostatin genes. Also, at 300 lbs @ 5’10" with a small waist, the extra 20 lbs or so around the waist that has been taken away would have to be displaced somewhere else in order to qualify for 300 lbs. This would be the ultimate X figure.
Now let’s upgrade it to the taller bodybuilders of today who can show up on stage at 296 lbs @ ungodly low bodyfat levels at 5’10" (not to mention any Ronnie Colemans ;)). Even so, I do not see how a bodybuilder is going to pack on more than a few inches or even an entire foot to his waist from holding an extra 30 - 40 lbs of mass on his upper body. I just don’t see the body responding so drastically to weight like that.
If this were true, could we expect all sumo wrestlers to have 4’ waists (assuming they leaned out to bodybuilding standards) due to the weigh that their bodies have supported. Actually, sumo wrestlers might be the perfect example though I’m certainly not positive on this issue. I’ve read many times on T-Nation that some sumo wrestlers beat out any bodybuilder in terms of muscle mass. What if one who was predetermined to have 300+ lbs of lean body mass on his frame at a height of 6 ft or less dieted down to bodybuilding contest body fat levels. What would his waist look like? Just speculation here.
What’s even more is that I’ve seen plenty of men weighing over 300 lbs who had not tiny waists, but chicken legs. Legs support and balance even more weight than the torso. If a bodybuilder has a large, distended waist while on stage, I would imagine that at least part of it would have to be from hGH.
In lieu of drugs, let’s not forget about the bodybuilders themselves like Haney, Platz, Yates, and Coleman that all set themselves apart from the rest of the crowd and caused everyone else to catch up in every aspect.
Just out of pure curiosity and ignorance, PX, what would be your tell-tale visual signs for a proper diagnosis of acromegaly? I recognize the visual symptoms of acromegaly as swelling of everything from hands, feet, organs, vocal cords (which would reflect on one’s voice as well) and heart to many facial features including ears, nose, lips, brow, and jaw.
Sorry for the long post, I’m bored.[/quote]
(0.o) where did u find the time to gather all that info?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
porkpie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
porkpie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Why can’t “purists” let people theorize that it is INDEED substance abuse that’s ONE OF the factors?
Read IDs first post. Holy fuck.
They had completely different standards in the 60’s. No one was even trying to build legs up like people today. They didn’t even start to focus on that until the 80’s around the time that Tom Platz hit the scene. Like all things in bodybuilding, those who take things to an extreme help redefine the sport. To jump over all of that and blame “substance abuse” isn’t just short sighted, it takes away from the hard work of the guys competing today.
Most of the people even making these threads about how great guys were in the 60’s completely ignore current bodybuilding which is why Ronnie Coleman gets mentioned first when he isn’t even the current Mr. O…Dex is.
Interestingly Platz was around and ‘known’ from about 1975 (he started competing as an amateur in 1973) and turned pro in 1978, so i am guessing that you saying that legs weren’t prioritized until the 80’s is probably not completely accurate ?
Or better yet that you don’t have any personal knowledge of how things occurred. Platz didn’t start getting huge recognition for those massive quads (including many mag articles about them along with supplement endorsements) until the mid to late 80’s. I didn’t say that as soon as he started competing he changed development standards.
Interesting you say this, i wonder if you actually just make things up at times ?
I have attempted to attach a picture of Tom Platz on the cover of a 1978 magazine, now to my mind those legs look pretty impressive to me ?
This is my last reply to you because it is clear by now you are just trolling…but Platz legs got much bigger than that by the mid 80’s. I am not sure why you are even arguing this. His legs are decently sized in that picture yet you think they are so massive as to stand out and get more bodybuilders focused on more size?
Bodybuilders who helped move the line towards more leg mass includes Platz and Phil Hill. There may be others but once Platz hit that gigantic size he was later known for (legs so big they stood about above all else) more people started moving towards that goal.
You are clearly someone who never researched this shit before recently yet are arguing for no reason. I guess you get off on following me around.
Have fun with that.[/quote]
Not trolling at all, i know my stuff, so how come thats trolling.
Not following you around, but we always seem to be arguing different from different perspectives and i dislike the confrontational ‘i am always right’ attitude you have.
Is this because i went against the ‘he didn’t get any magazine recognition’ yah-de-yah, and proved that actually he was known for his legs prior to the mid 80’s ?
Anyone who disagrees with you is labelled a troll, keep going its quite entertaing.