Separation of Church and State

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
too bad there is no such person as jesus

mythology is so funny[/quote]

Would you like to substantiate this claim with any evidence? [/quote]

Perhaps he means that the guys name wasnt Jesus, but Yeshua Ben Yosef, or that he wasnt born in december, or that there is zero evidence to substantiate the claim that he was born of a virgin, or walked on water, or made a blind man see, or turned water into wine, or fed hundreds of people with one basket of fish and one basket of bread, or brought a man back from the dead, or came back from the dead himself, or, well, virtually any of the claims made about him.

So, yes, the “Jesus” that Christians worship never actually existed.

Likewise:

“Saint Nicholas of Myra is the primary inspiration for the Christian figure of Sinterklaas. He was a 4th century Greek Christian bishop of Myra (now Demre) in Lycia, a province of the Byzantine Anatolia, now in Turkey. Nicholas was famous for his generous gifts to the poor, in particular presenting the three impoverished daughters of a pious Christian with dowries so that they would not have to become prostitutes.”

So while a real “Saint Nick” did exist, it is accurate to say that Santa Claus does not exist, even if the fictitious character is based on a real person.

102

I will say you have very good grammar.

103

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I will say you have very good grammar.[/quote]

Word!

104

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

The former Pennsylvania senator also explained that Jefferson’s â??wall of separationâ?? was meant to describe â??how the First Amendment was designed to protect churches from the government and nothing more.â?? But Kennedy’s â??misuse of the phrase,â?? he argued, â??constructed a high barrier that ultimately would keep religious convictions out of politics in a place where our founders had intended just the opposite.â??[/quote]

The Danbury Baptists contacted Thomas Jefferson because they were a religious minority in their state and were treated as if their religious liberties were privileges rather than their rights as American citizens. The problem the Danbury Baptists faced was men of deep religious conviction who didn’t respect their rights as a religious minority. That means that the government must remain religiously neutral to respect all religious views, a religious person with a deep conviction doesn’t necessarily guarantee the rights granted to you by the Constitution of the United States.

105

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
too bad there is no such person as jesus

mythology is so funny[/quote]

Would you like to substantiate this claim with any evidence? [/quote]

You are going to make me disprove a fairy tale? Really?

106

[quote]AllieD wrote:
All I meant about the condoms is that if the law followed religion - condoms would be illegal, abortion would be illegal, and birth control would be illegal… DISASTER!

Sometimes its okay for the state avoid following the churches guidelines. I mean the bible also says its an abomination to eat shrimp right before it says its an abomination for two man to lay together… so does that mean we shouldn’t eat shrimp?
[/quote]

I’m sure the Pope eats shrimp. If you have read the Bible, you’d know that it doesn’t say eating shrimp is an abomination.

[quote]
Interpreting the important messages of religion is important while also realizing that some of what religion teaches is incredibly archaic and can’t be applied to modern society.[/quote]

Not eating shrimp is a Jewish thing, I suspect because of the health concerns of eating unpreserved shell fish. However, condoms are a different situation. Obvious the Catholic Church is the biggest care taker for HIV/AIDS victims in Africa, and condoms aren’t helping because the numbers still growing. So…I suspect that condoms might not be what everything people say they are.

107

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]AllieD wrote:
All I meant about the condoms is that if the law followed religion - condoms would be illegal, abortion would be illegal, and birth control would be illegal… DISASTER!

Sometimes its okay for the state avoid following the churches guidelines. I mean the bible also says its an abomination to eat shrimp right before it says its an abomination for two man to lay together… so does that mean we shouldn’t eat shrimp?

Interpreting the important messages of religion is important while also realizing that some of what religion teaches is incredibly archaic and can’t be applied to modern society.[/quote]

Hold on there pretty lady (if that is really you in your avatar: the last air bender):

Old testament law was divided into 2 sets: The Law of God (which would be considered “moral law”) and The Law of Moses (or “ceremonial law”).

Abstaining from certain foods were part of the ceremonial law, which is now abolished. Even God was offended when he told Peter to eat from a sheet from Heaven with all kinds of animals, even pigs, and he refused because he said it was unclean. God rebuked him saying that nothing God has made is unclean.

Homosexuality is part of God’s Law and is still an abomination to him today as it always will be. Jesus himself said that homosexuals (amongst other practicing sinners, which include thieves, the covetous, the promiscuous, the drunkards and many more) will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

The way I see it is if it is banned from the Lord Jesus himself, it is a sin.

So you cannot really compare eating shrimp with a sexual perversion.

Even from an evolutionary point of view, it does not allow for the prorogation of a species and is therefore not beneficial.

But I’ve said too much…who here likes to drink coke?[/quote]

I prefer it in my nose. Little dry to drink it…amiright?

108

[quote]AllieD wrote:
Okay fair enough I did not know the laws were split up. But do you not agree that it would be a disaster if EVERYTHING considered immoral by “God’s law” was made illegal or punishable?

[/quote]

Not really, I stayed in a monastery for a week. Didn’t seem bad. Now, I am a proponent of Liberalism, so I don’t suspect on forcing others to do anything, but I do suspect that others have common decency.

However, God’s law is moral law, or commonly referred to by Catholics as Natural Law.

109

[quote]AllieD wrote:
I’m totally not talking about things like murder or stealing… ya that’s bad I get that. I mean controversial things like abortion, condoms, birth control and stem cell research. Just because the Church is against it doesn’t mean society should be. Which would mean it is probably better to have state separated from the church.[/quote]

Do you mean embryonic stem cell research?

110

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Education>Abortion[/quote]

Agreed. Proper sex education, easy access to contraceptives, and the ability to provide for children > abortion.

However, the answer of the right is to not tell young people about sex at all, preach only abstinence, denounce condoms and allow only those who can afford it birth control, and, when (as a result of these practices) unwanted pregnancies happen, tell the woman “tough shit, deal with it”.[/quote]

Contraceptives like the pill are abortifacient.

111

I should start another companion thread to my racism one named “Guaranteed cure (or prevention) for AIDS” . The faithful marriage of one virgin man and one virgin woman to each other for life. OUTRAGEOUS!!! Anything, but that. That would take a serious move of the Spirit of God to free this nation from the slavery to sex that it now labors under.

112

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
too bad there is no such person as jesus

mythology is so funny[/quote]

Would you like to substantiate this claim with any evidence? [/quote]

Perhaps he means that the guys name wasnt Jesus, but Yeshua Ben Yosef, or that he wasnt born in december, or that there is zero evidence to substantiate the claim that he was born of a virgin, or walked on water, or made a blind man see, or turned water into wine, or fed hundreds of people with one basket of fish and one basket of bread, or brought a man back from the dead, or came back from the dead himself, or, well, virtually any of the claims made about him.

So, yes, the “Jesus” that Christians worship never actually existed.

Likewise:

“Saint Nicholas of Myra is the primary inspiration for the Christian figure of Sinterklaas. He was a 4th century Greek Christian bishop of Myra (now Demre) in Lycia, a province of the Byzantine Anatolia, now in Turkey. Nicholas was famous for his generous gifts to the poor, in particular presenting the three impoverished daughters of a pious Christian with dowries so that they would not have to become prostitutes.”

So while a real “Saint Nick” did exist, it is accurate to say that Santa Claus does not exist, even if the fictitious character is based on a real person.[/quote]

Okay, that just means some people believe in a fake person based on a real person. However, when someone says Saint Nick I think of Saint Nicholas.

113

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I should start another companion thread to my racism one named “Guaranteed cure (or prevention) for AIDS” . The faithful marriage of one virgin man and one virgin woman to each other for life. OUTRAGEOUS!!! Anything, but that. That would take a serious move of the Spirit of God to free this nation from the slavery to sex that it now labors under. [/quote]

Even more outrageous is living a chaste life you’re entire life. Amazing…

114

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
too bad there is no such person as jesus

mythology is so funny[/quote]

Would you like to substantiate this claim with any evidence? [/quote]

You are going to make me disprove a fairy tale? Really?[/quote]

Just because LIFTICVSMAXIMVS says its a fairy tale, it must be so!!!

I suppose your belief in random pieces of stuff just coming together to form every species on the planet that we know of today, as well as the thousands more that remain undiscovered, thats pretty believable.

115

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Bullmoose33 wrote:
Kennedy had the right idea.[/quote]

You mean the magic book about men making large bodies of water suddenly defy all known laws of physics SHOULDNT be what our entire legal system is based on?

How dare you. You’ll be set on fire for all eternity when you die - lets hope preying on your fear of the unknown will terrorize you to my way of thinking![/quote]

Actually as a follower of Christ I’m quite fond of that “magic book” and it acts as the best moral compass in my opinion. But were talking about the separation between church and state not the separation between the bible and state. I think that “the church” for the most part has shown that its agenda is not the same as what Jesus preached it should be. Thus it should have no influence over the law. Men would rather have control over others lives while they can’t in fact manage their own. They in fact want to be God’s themselves and that is a very dangerous role to undertake.

116

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Bullmoose33 wrote:
Kennedy had the right idea.[/quote]

You mean the magic book about men making large bodies of water suddenly defy all known laws of physics SHOULDNT be what our entire legal system is based on?

How dare you. You’ll be set on fire for all eternity when you die - lets hope preying on your fear of the unknown will terrorize you to my way of thinking![/quote]You just may get it one day, but not today.
[/quote]

I would be careful about making statements like this.

117

[quote]Bullmoose33 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Bullmoose33 wrote:
Kennedy had the right idea.[/quote]

You mean the magic book about men making large bodies of water suddenly defy all known laws of physics SHOULDNT be what our entire legal system is based on?

How dare you. You’ll be set on fire for all eternity when you die - lets hope preying on your fear of the unknown will terrorize you to my way of thinking![/quote]You just may get it one day, but not today.
[/quote]

I would be careful about making statements like this.[/quote]Saul of Tarsus comes to mind. CappedAndPlanIt is regularly in my prayers. He, and a few other folks around here are just the type our risen Lord jist delights in showing His power and love in. It would be most joyous to spend eternity with CappedAndPlanIt singing the magnificent praises of our winsome and beautiful bridegroom King Jesus.

118

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
too bad there is no such person as jesus

mythology is so funny[/quote]

Would you like to substantiate this claim with any evidence? [/quote]

There is a fine china teapot in elliptical orbit around the sun.

119

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I don’t want a country where abortion is illegal.[/quote]

Liar.

120

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Obvious the Catholic Church is the biggest care taker for HIV/AIDS victims in Africa, and condoms aren’t helping because the numbers still growing. So…I suspect that condoms might not be what everything people say they are.[/quote]

Condoms don’t help if you don’t wear them. Guess who tells people in Africa that condoms don’t work and they shouldn’t wear them?