It’s just a shame how our President takes us for idiots:
“We understand.” Yeah,right.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BUSH_KATRINA?SITE=PASUN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Bush “really understands.”
I wish he would just admit that rebuilding most of NO is just throwing good money after bad.
Unfortunately being honest and forthright is not very common in politicians.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Unfortunately being honest and forthright is not very common in politicians.[/quote]
Enters Ron Paul.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Unfortunately being honest and forthright is not very common in politicians.
Enters Ron Paul.[/quote]
The real victims of Katrina are the tax payers of this country. Why, for ex, some factory worker in Seattle is supposed to pay for the homes and shit of people in New Orleans is beyond comprehension.
I know, I know, the tired old Lib arguments: “What if YOU need help some day?!?” Uh, that doesn’t give me the right to plunder my neighbors.
“How about caring about your fellow human beings?” I do care — that’s why I oppose forcing some people to help others, like cattle driven to market.
Altruism — the curse of humanity.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Unfortunately being honest and forthright is not very common in politicians.
Enters Ron Paul.[/quote]
All I can say about that guy is this:“If something seems too good to be true…”
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Altruism — the curse of humanity.
[/quote]
As usual, in your haste to decry “libs” you miss the real reason to do these types of things.
Economic.
Something the “cons” should be pretty interested in…
[quote]vroom wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Altruism — the curse of humanity.
As usual, in your haste to decry “libs” you miss the real reason to do these types of things.
Economic.
Something the “cons” should be pretty interested in…[/quote]
Where’d I mention libs in my post? You kind of lost me there, Vroomy.
Question: Do you think that people should be forced to help others? What about those who don’t WANT to help those in need? Should we create big brother governments to FORCE 'em to be ‘moral’?
People are either free or they are not. The standard of freedom is: Leave each other alone.
Sorry, Vroom. Reread and saw ‘LIB’.
Fuck it, I hate libs anyway.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Unfortunately being honest and forthright is not very common in politicians.
Enters Ron Paul.
The real victims of Katrina are the tax payers of this country. Why, for ex, some factory worker in Seattle is supposed to pay for the homes and shit of people in New Orleans is beyond comprehension.
I know, I know, the tired old Lib arguments: “What if YOU need help some day?!?” Uh, that doesn’t give me the right to plunder my neighbors.
“How about caring about your fellow human beings?” I do care — that’s why I oppose forcing some people to help others, like cattle driven to market.
Altruism — the curse of humanity.
[/quote]
The “real victims” of Katrina are the tax payers of this country. silence ???
How is altruism a curse?..when it barely exists…you’ve just proven that.
Just by being a law-abiding taxpayer,you’re being forced to help someone who’s in need?? Wow,thanks for the “help”…lol.
I agree with HH in a sense that 120 Billion dollars has been allocated since the disaster and yet there is almost nothing to show for it, granted only 60 billion or so have been spent, yet New Orleans is on pace to lead the nation in murders. Less than 50 percent of the population has returned.
We should of just gave all the Katrina victims 250,000 dollars and let them do as they wish. Supposedly with all federal funding and donations each victim would have received upwards to half a million, this according to CNBC financial network show.
Unlike HH I do believe that we should not leave em hanging, theyre our countrymen. Either way Louisiana’s majority is poor and if anybody has read Freakonomics (highly recommend), the whole failure of New Orleans is explainable.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Unfortunately being honest and forthright is not very common in politicians.
Enters Ron Paul.
The real victims of Katrina are the tax payers of this country. Why, for ex, some factory worker in Seattle is supposed to pay for the homes and shit of people in New Orleans is beyond comprehension.
I know, I know, the tired old Lib arguments: “What if YOU need help some day?!?” Uh, that doesn’t give me the right to plunder my neighbors.
“How about caring about your fellow human beings?” I do care — that’s why I oppose forcing some people to help others, like cattle driven to market.
Altruism — the curse of humanity.
The “real victims” of Katrina are the tax payers of this country. silence ???
How is altruism a curse?..when it barely exists…you’ve just proven that.[/quote]
You are equating benevolence with altruism. The former is done, if a person freely chooses, to help someone who is unjustly suffering. Altruism is a moral claim imposed by one person upon another. I reject such a morality. I don’t recognize anyone’s claim to any of my money, my property, or my life. Those things are mine, I earn them.
Forced help = servitude.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Question: Do you think that people should be forced to help others? What about those who don’t WANT to help those in need? Should we create big brother governments to FORCE 'em to be ‘moral’?
People are either free or they are not. The standard of freedom is: Leave each other alone.[/quote]
Well, unfortunately, your country is founded upon the concept of shared burdens. For example, a national military, which I don’t think any of you are really proposing needs to be dismantled. You also have local police forces, fire departments and other resources that take money out of your pocket.
Stop trying to frame things in ridiculous extremes in an attempt to win support for your ideology.
If your military wasn’t nation building in Iraq they could be busy city rebuilding in New Orleans. Who knows. The issue is not one of being forcd into “helping” it is one of finding appropriate ways to use resources for the tasks at hand. Perhaps the concept of federal emergencies needs to be scrapped?
Don’t confuse a fucked up system, giving fucked up results, with the need to let your fellow citizens twist in the wind.
I don’t know if anyone has brought up this point but I gotta ask. Who decided to build a city in a swamp that has been known for flooding and why the hell would anybody wanna live there? It’s like getting pissed at the heat if you work in a steel mill.
Second of all why didnt the people that live in NO properly prepare them selves with emergancy supplies in case of such an accident. I keep a box of MRE’s and 2 cases of water in a closet in my garage. If I lived in an area like NO I would keep an inflatable raft that would hold me and my family and I would have paddled our asses out of there. If you wait for the government to help you you may be waitin for a LLOOONNNGGGG time.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Question: Do you think that people should be forced to help others? What about those who don’t WANT to help those in need? Should we create big brother governments to FORCE 'em to be ‘moral’?
People are either free or they are not. The standard of freedom is: Leave each other alone.
Well, unfortunately, your country is founded upon the concept of shared burdens. For example, a national military, which I don’t think any of you are really proposing needs to be dismantled. You also have local police forces, fire departments and other resources that take money out of your pocket.
Stop trying to frame things in ridiculous extremes in an attempt to win support for your ideology.
If your military wasn’t nation building in Iraq they could be busy city rebuilding in New Orleans. Who knows. The issue is not one of being forcd into “helping” it is one of finding appropriate ways to use resources for the tasks at hand. [/quote]
Whose ‘resources’? Taken from whom and in exchange for what?
The resources you describe were produced by honest men and women and were extorted by threats of jail/confiscation by those in power.
I do not like a bandit-government that steals from the honest and hands out the loot like prizes, while idiots scramble for their ‘rightful’ share.
What happens when the bandits run out of victims to rob or the victims simply stop producing?
Ah well, who is John Galt?
[quote]jawara wrote:
I don’t know if anyone has brought up this point but I gotta ask. Who decided to build a city in a swamp that has been known for flooding and why the hell would anybody wanna live there? It’s like getting pissed at the heat if you work in a steel mill.
Second of all why didnt the people that live in NO properly prepare them selves with emergancy supplies in case of such an accident. I keep a box of MRE’s and 2 cases of water in a closet in my garage. If I lived in an area like NO I would keep an inflatable raft that would hold me and my family and I would have paddled our asses out of there. If you wait for the government to help you you may be waitin for a LLOOONNNGGGG time.[/quote]
Scientists estimate that a Category 5 has a 1 in 6 chance of hitting NO in the next 20 years. To prepare the city to withstand that would cost 1.2 trillion (not billion) dollars. The city leaders, along with the feds, therefore are simply going to rebuild for a level 3, just like it was before. Watch what happens if a 5 hits — the deaths will be in the tens of thousands.
Besides setting up for another or worse disaster, I’m also objecting on moral grounds — forcing others to pay for any of this. Force should not be allowed except in response to someone else initiating force.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Whose ‘resources’? Taken from whom and in exchange for what?
The resources you describe were produced by honest men and women and were extorted by threats of jail/confiscation by those in power.[/quote]
So, you are back on your anarchy bent? The services I described were police, firefighters and military…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The resources you describe were produced by honest men and women and were extorted by threats of jail/confiscation by those in power. [/quote]
HH,
Here’s something you should consider; the United States spends trillions of dollars on unnecessary wars. That money is taken from you and your fellow hardworkers at gunpoint.
In essence, it is used to kill people.
You also subsidize a great deal of countries, the most famous and substantial of which being Israel. Again, the resources that make this possible are literally extorted.
So, before bitching about how the government “steals” from you to reconstruct school in New Orleans so that your younger compatriots get an education, you should first denounce the bigger (and exceedingly more immoral) problem that is the use of your bucks in so-called preemptive wars and the MIC.
And that, if you look carefully, is the topic of the thread.
Thanks,
[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The resources you describe were produced by honest men and women and were extorted by threats of jail/confiscation by those in power.
HH,
Here’s something you should consider; the United States spends trillions of dollars on unnecessary wars. That money is taken from you and your fellow hardworkers at gunpoint.
In essence, it is used to kill people.
You also subsidize a great deal of countries, the most famous and substantial of which being Israel. Again, the resources that make this possible are literally extorted.
So, before bitching about how the government “steals” from you to reconstruct school in New Orleans so that your younger compatriots get an education, you should first denounce the bigger (and exceedingly more immoral) problem that is the use of your bucks in so-called preemptive wars and the MIC.
And that, if you look carefully, is the topic of the thread.
Thanks,[/quote]
Thank you!!
[quote]jawara wrote:
I don’t know if anyone has brought up this point but I gotta ask. Who decided to build a city in a swamp that has been known for flooding and why the hell would anybody wanna live there? It’s like getting pissed at the heat if you work in a steel mill.
Second of all why didnt the people that live in NO properly prepare them selves with emergancy supplies in case of such an accident. I keep a box of MRE’s and 2 cases of water in a closet in my garage. If I lived in an area like NO I would keep an inflatable raft that would hold me and my family and I would have paddled our asses out of there. If you wait for the government to help you you may be waitin for a LLOOONNNGGGG time.[/quote]
Absolutely. More people need to hold this mentality. I mean, ultimately, people should be responsible for themselves. Unfortunately, people who hold this mentality are far too often denounced as “survivalists” and “whackjobs”. I was having a conversation the other day with a guy who thought I was crazy for asserting that I was primarily responsible for the defense of my home and not the police.
Rugged individualism is, unfortunately being tossed to the wayside and being replaced by a dependence upon government at all levels.