[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Sometimes it’s hard to grasp the real vibe of a poster on the internet.
For example, sarcasm can be completely missed on occasion.
So, I’d just like to confirm that you guys are joking around with the name-calling and self-rightousness, right?
[/quote]
I am…I’m not sure if Capped is though, he takes the Internetz serious business like.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
What obvious truth is that, Chris?
[/quote]
The obvious truth that I am talking about is what the Church actually teaches, not this straw-man argument stuff you keep making up.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
So no politics at all?
I’m not trying to build any strawman arguments against you, I’m seriously wondering what you think the role of politics should idealistically be, if any.[/quote]
You got it. Mind your own business.[/quote]
Then who decides on laws?[/quote]
What more law do you need than do not hurt people?
[quote]AllieD wrote:
condoms[/quote]
Here is a good analogy about condoms and the Pope:
If a bank robber decides he wants to rob a bank with a gun and if he decides to not use bullets in his gun. It might lead one to think that the bank robber is thinking about other’s safety.
But, it is the position of the Vatican that robbing a bank is inherently wrong, but it might be less evil if they robber doesn’t use bullets in his gun.
In the Popes comments, he was talking about prostitution, adding more evil homosexual activities, both inherently evil themselves, then adding with the reckless abandonment of possibly spreading a deadly disease. So the situation the Pope presented is evil, no question about it. However, the use of a condom would give the idea that maybe the male prostitutes sees that his actions have consequences.
If anybody cares, I understood the pope to be saying what Brother Chris says he was saying the first time I heard it.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
When you figure out how to make that happen, let me know. [/quote]
Make me King of America, and I’ll make it happen :)[/quote]
Weird…
It’s almost like you understand me. Has this ever happened before on PWI?
All I meant about the condoms is that if the law followed religion - condoms would be illegal, abortion would be illegal, and birth control would be illegal… DISASTER!
Sometimes its okay for the state avoid following the churches guidelines. I mean the bible also says its an abomination to eat shrimp right before it says its an abomination for two man to lay together… so does that mean we shouldn’t eat shrimp?
Interpreting the important messages of religion is important while also realizing that some of what religion teaches is incredibly archaic and can’t be applied to modern society.
[quote]AllieD wrote:
All I meant about the condoms is that if the law followed religion - condoms would be illegal, abortion would be illegal, and birth control would be illegal… DISASTER!
Sometimes its okay for the state avoid following the churches guidelines. I mean the bible also says its an abomination to eat shrimp right before it says its an abomination for two man to lay together… so does that mean we shouldn’t eat shrimp?
Interpreting the important messages of religion is important while also realizing that some of what religion teaches is incredibly archaic and can’t be applied to modern society.[/quote]
Hold on there pretty lady (if that is really you in your avatar: the last air bender):
Old testament law was divided into 2 sets: The Law of God (which would be considered “moral law”) and The Law of Moses (or “ceremonial law”).
Abstaining from certain foods were part of the ceremonial law, which is now abolished. Even God was offended when he told Peter to eat from a sheet from Heaven with all kinds of animals, even pigs, and he refused because he said it was unclean. God rebuked him saying that nothing God has made is unclean.
Homosexuality is part of God’s Law and is still an abomination to him today as it always will be. Jesus himself said that homosexuals (amongst other practicing sinners, which include thieves, the covetous, the promiscuous, the drunkards and many more) will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
The way I see it is if it is banned from the Lord Jesus himself, it is a sin.
So you cannot really compare eating shrimp with a sexual perversion.
Even from an evolutionary point of view, it does not allow for the prorogation of a species and is therefore not beneficial.
But I’ve said too much…who here likes to drink coke?
Pretty solid Forbes.
Okay fair enough I did not know the laws were split up. But do you not agree that it would be a disaster if EVERYTHING considered immoral by “God’s law” was made illegal or punishable?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Christians should actually practice communism. CHRISTIANS SHOULD… voluntarily… inside the church. Not through secular government.
The second chapter of the acts of the apostles vv42-47 ESV:
But if its voluntary its not communism =), however what you quoted sounds like ideal communism communist would hope to achieve but without the force aspect.
too bad there is no such person as jesus
mythology is so funny
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
too bad there is no such person as jesus
mythology is so funny[/quote]
Would you like to substantiate this claim with any evidence?
[quote]AllieD wrote:
Okay fair enough I did not know the laws were split up. But do you not agree that it would be a disaster if EVERYTHING considered immoral by “God’s law” was made illegal or punishable?
[/quote]
Well yes and no. Some things come from within and there is no way for any man to know if he is breaking God’s law. For example, being covetous towards someone else for their possessions cannot be proven by any body except yourself and God. If it were illegal to be covetous then all you would have to do is say “Hey Forbes is coveting AllieD’s avatar” and then I would go to prison based off of an allegation that no one can prove.
So yes I suppose I can agree with you. Because it is God’s law, it should be between a man/woman and God.
However this is more referring to internal thoughts. Anything that can be expressed outwards that is against God’s law (for example your covetous nature turning into stealing, or your attraction to the same sex turning into marriage) then it should, in my opinion be forbidden.
Thing is, I know a lot of people reading this do even believe in God and would rather have everyone do whatever they want so long as they’re happy. But there is a lot of double standards involved with this line of thinking.
In addition, had everyone obeyed God’s design and order of things, we would not be in the same turmoil that we face today.
[quote]AllieD wrote:
Okay fair enough I did not know the laws were split up. But do you not agree that it would be a disaster if EVERYTHING considered immoral by “God’s law” was made illegal or punishable?
[/quote]I consider it a self evident disaster that we would have to discuss the “legality or punishablability” of perversion and murder for them not to be widely engaged in. The force of secular law is no part of the gospel message. In other words it is indeed true that morality cannot be legislated. It must be voluntary and it is this principle upon which our form of limited government was founded. Social liberalism IS societal collapse in it’s descendant stages of fruition until completed. Citing some pinpoint on an overseas map says nothing about THIS once great nation.
I’m totally not talking about things like murder or stealing… ya that’s bad I get that. I mean controversial things like abortion, condoms, birth control and stem cell research. Just because the Church is against it doesn’t mean society should be. Which would mean it is probably better to have state separated from the church.
[quote]AllieD wrote:
I’m totally not talking about things like murder or stealing… ya that’s bad I get that. I mean controversial things like abortion, condoms, birth control and stem cell research. Just because the Church is against it doesn’t mean society should be. Which would mean it is probably better to have state separated from the church.[/quote]Abortion is murder, promiscuity and homosexuality are perversion. The fact that this is so foreign to you is a blinding illustration of my very point. I don’t want a country where abortion is illegal. I’d prefer one where women (and men) we’re horrified at the thought of butchering their own ultimately dependent and vulnerable offspring in the name of hedonistic convenience.
Assuming for a minute there is a God who created them male and female and called their name Adam instituting the most foundational of all human relationships, I know you don’t, but just for the sake of discussion. YES, society should be against… and for whatever that God is against or for. However, it must rest in the national conscience. It betrays an utter lack of understanding of their own God for Christians to believe that the government enacting laws will have any effect on the character of their nation.
It might be said that it to a degree reflects that character, but you can not make being a lost sinner illegal and nowhere does the bible suggest we do so. The church’s job is not to lobby Washington. It’s job is to preach the gospel of grace FIRST by example and then by proclamation. She has and is failing on both counts hence we have young ladies campaigning for murder and perversion as if they were simply points of freedom.
Education>Abortion
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s job is to preach the gospel of grace FIRST by example and then by proclamation. She has and is failing on both counts hence we have young ladies campaigning for murder and perversion as if they were simply points of freedom.
[/quote]
Then shut the hell up about everybody else till she is succeeding on the first out in every one of her followers.
Then, maybe, you might have some slight argument that there is a link between Christianity and morality. Till then its just another lie.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Education>Abortion[/quote]
Agreed. Proper sex education, easy access to contraceptives, and the ability to provide for children > abortion.
However, the answer of the right is to not tell young people about sex at all, preach only abstinence, denounce condoms and allow only those who can afford it birth control, and, when (as a result of these practices) unwanted pregnancies happen, tell the woman “tough shit, deal with it”.