[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
singing the magnificent praises of our winsome and beautiful bridegroom King Jesus.
[/quote]
Not at all gay.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
singing the magnificent praises of our winsome and beautiful bridegroom King Jesus.
[/quote]
Not at all gay.[/quote]Nope
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Education>Abortion[/quote]
Agreed. Proper sex education, easy access to contraceptives, and the ability to provide for children > abortion.
However, the answer of the right is to not tell young people about sex at all, preach only abstinence, denounce condoms and allow only those who can afford it birth control, and, when (as a result of these practices) unwanted pregnancies happen, tell the woman “tough shit, deal with it”.[/quote]
Contraceptives like the pill are abortifacient.
[/quote]
No they are not-
They fake a pregnancy just enough so that no new fertile ova are produced. just as they would not be produced in the case of a real pregnancy.
What about fertilised eggs that don’t implant and are naturally flushed out of a woman’s body? If life begins when an egg is fertilised then you will have to jail millions of women. But I wouldn’t be surprised if most extreme anti-abortionists thought that was a great idea.
If you compare the development of humanity to the development of a single person, then religion is like the fairy tales we believed as children. When we’re children we have to use stories and imagination to explain things because we don’t have the mental tools to understand the world. But when we grow up we leave those stories behind, and that’s why we can’t progress with religion controlling us. I don’t believe humans can ever spread across the stars unless we abandon holy books written thousands of years ago that have no relevance now. They cannot tell us anything meaningful about genetics or medicine or anything we need to solve our problems.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Obvious the Catholic Church is the biggest care taker for HIV/AIDS victims in Africa, and condoms aren’t helping because the numbers still growing. So…I suspect that condoms might not be what everything people say they are.[/quote]
Condoms don’t help if you don’t wear them. Guess who tells people in Africa that condoms don’t work and they shouldn’t wear them?[/quote]
Interesting, because if I remember people were being infect with AIDs before condoms, and since condoms have been introduced it hasn’t gotten better.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Interesting, because if I remember people were being infect with AIDs before condoms, and since condoms have been introduced it hasn’t gotten better.[/quote]
Might have something to do with a senile old man telling people not to use condoms…
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Education>Abortion[/quote]
Agreed. Proper sex education, easy access to contraceptives, and the ability to provide for children > abortion.
However, the answer of the right is to not tell young people about sex at all, preach only abstinence, denounce condoms and allow only those who can afford it birth control, and, when (as a result of these practices) unwanted pregnancies happen, tell the woman “tough shit, deal with it”.[/quote]
Contraceptives like the pill are abortifacient.
[/quote]
No they are not-
They fake a pregnancy just enough so that no new fertile ova are produced. just as they would not be produced in the case of a real pregnancy.[/quote]
Okay, the Pill doesn’t prevent conception, it prevents implantation (most of the time, 4 out of a 100 still report pregnancy on the Pill). That’s called abortifacient.
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
What about fertilised eggs that don’t implant and are naturally flushed out of a woman’s body? If life begins when an egg is fertilised then you will have to jail millions of women. But I wouldn’t be surprised if most extreme anti-abortionists thought that was a great idea.
[/quote]
I think we need to look at who is educating these people. I’ve been to the doctor with a few of my sisters, and you’d be surprised how “easy” it is for these doctors to recommend the pill, even if the girls aren’t sexual.
[quote]
If you compare the development of humanity to the development of a single person, then religion is like the fairy tales we believed as children. When we’re children we have to use stories and imagination to explain things because we don’t have the mental tools to understand the world. But when we grow up we leave those stories behind, and that’s why we can’t progress with religion controlling us. I don’t believe humans can ever spread across the stars unless we abandon holy books written thousands of years ago that have no relevance now. They cannot tell us anything meaningful about genetics or medicine or anything we need to solve our problems.[/quote]
I think the least of our worries at the moment are genetics or medicine. And yes it does have the answers to solve our problems. How about all the genocides going on around the world? What about all the starving people around the world? I think that is more important than figuring genetics or medicine (this last one is important, but you need people to be alive for them to need medicine).
Starving people can pray for food surely? Didn’t the Israelites receive mana from heaven? Genetically modified food and science-based farming methods are what solve that problem. And genocides would be less of a problem if we eliminated religion.
[quote]Bullmoose33 wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Bullmoose33 wrote:
Kennedy had the right idea.[/quote]
You mean the magic book about men making large bodies of water suddenly defy all known laws of physics SHOULDNT be what our entire legal system is based on?
How dare you. You’ll be set on fire for all eternity when you die - lets hope preying on your fear of the unknown will terrorize you to my way of thinking![/quote]
Actually as a follower of Christ I’m quite fond of that “magic book” and it acts as the best moral compass in my opinion. [/quote]
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
Discuss.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]AllieD wrote:
All I meant about the condoms is that if the law followed religion - condoms would be illegal, abortion would be illegal, and birth control would be illegal… DISASTER!
Sometimes its okay for the state avoid following the churches guidelines. I mean the bible also says its an abomination to eat shrimp right before it says its an abomination for two man to lay together… so does that mean we shouldn’t eat shrimp?
[/quote]
I’m sure the Pope eats shrimp. If you have read the Bible, you’d know that it doesn’t say eating shrimp is an abomination.
[quote]
Interpreting the important messages of religion is important while also realizing that some of what religion teaches is incredibly archaic and can’t be applied to modern society.[/quote]
Not eating shrimp is a Jewish thing, I suspect because of the health concerns of eating unpreserved shell fish. However, condoms are a different situation. Obvious the Catholic Church is the biggest care taker for HIV/AIDS victims in Africa, and condoms aren’t helping because the numbers still growing. So…I suspect that condoms might not be what everything people say they are.[/quote]
From Leviticus
“But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you.” (Leviticus 11:10)
“They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination.” (Leviticus 11:11)
“Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you.” (Leviticus 11:12)
Leviticus is the book where religious homophobic cherry pickers justify their discrimination:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22)
“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
What else is an abomination?
“For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him.” (Leviticus 20:9)
“Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.” (Leviticus 25:44-45)
… and much much more
Now of course we can’t take everything in the bible literally… but then why do we take the anti-gay verse literally? seems like cherry picking to me.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
too bad there is no such person as jesus
mythology is so funny[/quote]
Would you like to substantiate this claim with any evidence? [/quote]
You are going to make me disprove a fairy tale? Really?[/quote]
Just because LIFTICVSMAXIMVS says its a fairy tale, it must be so!!!
I suppose your belief in random pieces of stuff just coming together to form every species on the planet that we know of today, as well as the thousands more that remain undiscovered, thats pretty believable.[/quote]
Mythology from an ancient desert dwelling people, that’s pretty believable.
The earliest known mythology dates back to 70,000 years ago with Africans in Botswana, every civilization has had mythology. The only real difference between believing in the god of Abrahamic religions and the god of ancient Romans is an emperor converted to that religion and it’s later imposed on those living in the Roman empire. Then that religion continued to be imposed on your ancestors and currently you most likely belong to the religion your ancestors were forced to convert to. That’s truly divine.
^you pulled all of that from Leviticus, the hebrew law. Not accepted as law by the Catholic Church, as we are not hebrew.
The New Testament includes verses that point to homosexuality as a sin. So no, its not cherry picking, at least the way you are describing it.
EDIT - in reference to allie’s post
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Education>Abortion[/quote]
Agreed. Proper sex education, easy access to contraceptives, and the ability to provide for children > abortion.
However, the answer of the right is to not tell young people about sex at all, preach only abstinence, denounce condoms and allow only those who can afford it birth control, and, when (as a result of these practices) unwanted pregnancies happen, tell the woman “tough shit, deal with it”.[/quote]
Contraceptives like the pill are abortifacient.
[/quote]
No they are not-
They fake a pregnancy just enough so that no new fertile ova are produced. just as they would not be produced in the case of a real pregnancy.[/quote]
Okay, the Pill doesn’t prevent conception, it prevents implantation (most of the time, 4 out of a 100 still report pregnancy on the Pill). That’s called abortifacient
[/quote]
This is flat out wrong.
An abortifacient induces an abortion in mammals.
The pill prevents any ova to be produced that could be aborted.
No ova → nothing to fertilize → nothing to abort.
Now in those cases where this does not happen it prevents the fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus, but to call this an abortion is a bit fishy because a pregnancy starts when it does exactly that, and for very good reasons, because most ferilized eggs do not.
So to call a drug that does suppress ovulation and then prevents any fertilized ova to nest in the uterus which in all likelyhood they would not have done anyway an abortion is a stretch.
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^you pulled all of that from Leviticus, the hebrew law. Not accepted as law by the Catholic Church, as we are not hebrew.
The New Testament includes verses that point to homosexuality as a sin. So no, its not cherry picking, at least the way you are describing it.
EDIT - in reference to allie’s post[/quote]
It’s been awhile since my catholic school days I didn’t realize the old testament has been dropped lol… so the creation story is out? and Moses? and Noah! too bad I always liked those stories!
And not that I don’t believe you but where in the new testament does it say homosexuality is a sin? I only ever hear the religious right quote Leviticus.
[quote]AllieD wrote:
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^you pulled all of that from Leviticus, the hebrew law. Not accepted as law by the Catholic Church, as we are not hebrew.
The New Testament includes verses that point to homosexuality as a sin. So no, its not cherry picking, at least the way you are describing it.
EDIT - in reference to allie’s post[/quote]
It’s been awhile since my catholic school days I didn’t realize the old testament has been dropped lol… so the creation story is out? and Moses? and Noah! too bad I always liked those stories!
[/quote]
Win.
AFAIR, there’s nothing about homosexuality in the 4 Gospels.
but there is some references to “sodomites” and “male prostitutes” in Paul’s writing :
Romans 1:26-27, Corinthians 6:9-10, Timothy 1:8-11.
[quote]AllieD wrote:
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^you pulled all of that from Leviticus, the hebrew law. Not accepted as law by the Catholic Church, as we are not hebrew.
The New Testament includes verses that point to homosexuality as a sin. So no, its not cherry picking, at least the way you are describing it.
EDIT - in reference to allie’s post[/quote]
It’s been awhile since my catholic school days I didn’t realize the old testament has been dropped lol… so the creation story is out? and Moses? and Noah! too bad I always liked those stories!
And not that I don’t believe you but where in the new testament does it say homosexuality is a sin? I only ever hear the religious right quote Leviticus.
[/quote]
Not dropped in the sense that the Church doesnt believe it is not inspired, but the creation story, Noah, Job, etc could very well be true, or could very well be stories to teach moral lessons etc. Was there a literal Adam and Eve? Maybe, or maybe Adam and Eve are in the parable examples of how sin came to be, maybe something deeper, the point being that the Catholic Church doesnt hold every word of the Old Testament to be literal or (in the case of the Jewish law recorded in Leviticus etc) binding on the Christian Church.
[quote]AllieD wrote:
[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:
^you pulled all of that from Leviticus, the hebrew law. Not accepted as law by the Catholic Church, as we are not hebrew.
The New Testament includes verses that point to homosexuality as a sin. So no, its not cherry picking, at least the way you are describing it.
EDIT - in reference to allie’s post[/quote]
It’s been awhile since my catholic school days I didn’t realize the old testament has been dropped lol… so the creation story is out? and Moses? and Noah! too bad I always liked those stories!
And not that I don’t believe you but where in the new testament does it say homosexuality is a sin? I only ever hear the religious right quote Leviticus.
[/quote]
You know, somehow I think they’ll just quote anything.
There’s mention of homosexuality in Romans 1:24-27, I Timothy 1:10, and Jude 7:7-8.
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Interesting, because if I remember people were being infect with AIDs before condoms, and since condoms have been introduced it hasn’t gotten better.[/quote]
Might have something to do with a senile old man telling people not to use condoms…[/quote]
And in what situation did this senile old man tell people not to use condoms?